Centerfield

Vic Sage wrote: they're not moving either Cespedes or Conforto to 3b, injury or no, and neither should they. Enough with playing guys totally out of position. Wait, so my scenario had the Mets spending about $750 million, and that's the part that was unrealistic? Lol. I would say there is a better chance Conforto learns to play an adequate 3B by catching the ball with his teeth and then punting it over to 1B than the Mets signing five top tier free agents in one winter.

Frayed Knot wrote: Various places will do that but only after they examine each team individually and the progression has just started - so tune back maybe in February. I'd expect ours to be bottom third but that's just a guesstimate. Too many graduations and no one really stepping forward last year. When you've got a guys at #s 2 & 3 like Peterson and Dunn whose value is still based entirely on draft slot rather than actual pro track record it tells you the list is much more based on potential than anything. I was thinking it's gotta be pretty close to the bottom. Fishing around that site, here's the top 100 from midseason last year: http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-midseason-top-100-prospects-july-7/#MKYjy5WSuZwkGqKs.97 We only had Rosario (#4) and Smith (#50). With those two graduating, we'd have to be pretty low. It's frustrating that the MFY's, with the big payroll, and all the trades they made, have 5 in that top 100. Maybe they traded a few of those guys to get Sonny Gray/Robertson? Nationals are pretty light on that list too. I counted only 3.

Is there a ranking of where they stand as against other clubs?

I'm hoping for LA to win it. But I'm hoping that the game will be marred by that horrific collision at 1B between Chase Utley and Yuli Gurriel, where both came away with career ending cases of vaginitis.

I see Ohtani going to the AL. If he really goes both ways (NTTAWWT), then I think he has to DH between starts. You don't want him burning out that arm. Yu is kind of a mystery. I wouldn't put him in that elite class of ace, though he will likely be paid like one this winter. 3.86 ERA is nothing special, 26th in all of baseball. He does have a nice WHIP (1.18), which was 13th overall, and better than Jacob deGrom's. And this was the year he was finally healthy. I don't know. I see a bunch of red flags. But then again, we definitely need a starter.

Meanwhile, Wilmer put up a .795 OPS last year (career .725), and is younger and cheaper.

Ceetar wrote: career 4.5% BB rate. 10.5 mil, 13 mil, 13.5 mil contract. Can I get a hell no? Like, I'd take him if it was a stipulation of the Stanton deal maybe, but as a throw in. I'm not GIVING up anything for what's at best a major league average player. Holy crap. I'm about to agree with Ceetar. What the hell is going on? Yeah, .696 career OPS. .716 last year, .640 the year before. The batting average and speed are nice, but nothing to see here.

You know, I was thinking that the Mets need to primarily add pitching this winter, and add one solid bat somewhere. But now watching these post-season games, I feel like the Mets are light years away offensively. I mean, these guys have such talent up and down their lineup. Don't like Moustakas or Frazier. We have enough low BA guys. Of the hitters available this winter, I think only JD Martinez is a difference maker. Lorenzo Cain can fill a need. Neil Walker to a lesser extent. My plan (borrowing from the LA Dodgers playbook): Sign Wade Davis and Greg Holland. Sign Yu Darvish. Trade some of the leftover starters and/or AJ Ramos for a super-lefty reliever. Haven't exactly identified one yet but it's only Nov. 1. Exercise the option on Jerry Blevins. Exercise the option on Asdrubal Cabrera and slot him at 2B. Sign JD Martinez. Sign Lorenzo Cain. Try Cespedes and Conforto at 3B (hey they are athletes!) and see which one is better. Leave the better one there and move the other one back to LF. This is hard, I realize, with Conforto hurt, but winning doesn't come without a cost, and winners never quit! Sign Lucas Duda to be your lefty bat off the bench and to DH during interleague away games. If you want to go economical, you can skip the Lorenzo Cain signing, go with Flores/Rivera at 3B, and move either Ces or Conforto to CF. Then start selling post-season tickets!

That's a good point. Hard to get righteously indignant about the Gurriel thing and not speak out about the giant offensive racist caricature that Cleveland wears on their uniforms. WTF world. Stop doing racist shit, stop sexually assaulting women and stop molesting minors.

I'm even worse. I find my rooting interests vary from batter to batter. Like the Dodgers will be rallying, then Utley comes up to bat. Or the Astros are batting, and they mention '86, or I see the old jersey in the stands and remember I hate them. Or they show Gibson. Or mention Greinke from 2015. Fucking Cleveland.

It seems like Calloway's signature move is to focus on the curveball. I guess that has a direct impact on guys like Matz and Lugo. Matz, who we hope is now healthy, might be a great candidate for Calloway's tutelage. Has good off-speed stuff. Maybe he can take the next step into Trevor Bauer. Lugo will be interesting. If he can stay healthy, he could be a great candidate too. Or, this could push him into TJ surgery. Will be interesting to see if Noah finds his curveball again, after going mainly fastball slider in recent years.

I don't know. I definitely rooted for the Astros against the MFY's, and I'm grateful that they knocked them out. Was perhaps the only fun thing that happened in baseball in 2017. But now against a neutral opponent I'm finding it hard to root for them. They kinda annoy me. Certainly don't like the Dodgers. Utley. Still pissed at Justin Turner for sucking with us and being awesome for them. Plus the fuckers ditched Granderson. WTF LA. If you're not gonna use him, I think they should have to give him back. Just blah. I'm guess I'm grateful that we still have baseball. But man, I really wish Cleveland were playing.

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't care about his pay, I care about punishment. Keeping him out of two WS games is a punishment - no one knows when you'll get back to one so you go watch in the clubhouse and think about how much of a childish dick you were. 2 WS games and 5 games in April is an even better idea. All weekend long I’ve had to deal with this. Some dickhead makes a racist gesture and now I have to discuss it with my kids. I have to do it again when the dickheads in Houston give him a standing fucking ovation. And I have to deal with it at my son’s games and at a party Saturday night not because I am walking around preaching about it, but because people are raising it to me in the “come on CF, it’s not that bad right?” Way that people do. It’s annoying to have to be that guy who gets all righteous but fuck that if I’m going to condone that shit. What I realize now is I need to start bringing Kong to parties with me.

Frayed Knot wrote: Centerfield wrote: Is this a serious statement? What the fuck else could he have been doing? I dunno, touching the sides of his head for half a second? My point is that not only didn't I see it but that, even if I were directly looking at him at the time, unless I were told what to look for and why, I still likely would have missed it. That there were no denials coming from him or from Houston indicates that's probably exactly what he was doing and so I have no problem with Manfred's response. If you really don’t know what that gesture means, and have trouble seeing it, even on replay, then I don’t know what else to say. For me, it’s pretty clear cut. The gesture is there. He doesn’t need to hold it like a yoga pose in order to have its effect. I don’t agree that it’s subject to interpretation. It has only meant one thing ever. As LWFS says above, being able to “not see it” or ignore it is nice. It’s nice when racism is someone else’s problem. It’s a nice luxury to be all too cool for school. “I don’t see what the big deal is.” When we watch the game with our kids we don’t have that option. People who really don’t know about all this racism stuff can choose a few different paths. One can get educated. Consider that maybe there is something to it, since all these minorities seem to be worked up over something. Become informed and become part of the solution. One can say nothing. Which sucks in itself, but at least you are not actively contributing to the problem. Or you can gloss it over. Minimize it. Imply that those offended must be looking to be offended. You justify the action. Embolden those that act offensively and quash the efforts of those speaking out against bigotry. It’s regrettable you chose the last one.

Frayed Knot wrote: The big question on the docket at the moment is whether Houston 1B Yuli Gurriel's reported 'slant eyes' gesture towards You Darvish is going to land him a suspension heading into Game 4. I didn't hear anything about this until after the game and the only evidence I've seen is subject to interpretation, one of those things that you'll see if you're looking for it but wouldn't even notice otherwise. So there is no racism unless one happens to be looking for it? This is such a stupid statement I don’t know where to start. It’s not subject to interpretation. And it’s pretty fucking noticeable. It’s a slur. There is no other interpretation. There should be no tolerance for it. Does he need to come out in blackface for the point to be clear? Did he not mean to offend anyone? He should start by not using slurs. Verbal or physical. Don’t know what’s worse. The slur itself or white america saying “what’s the big fucking deal”. I mean, he stood up for the anthem right? All good.

Frayed Knot wrote: I have to say that those I heard last night seemed to be much more sure that this was a 'thing' than I was once I saw it this morning. If this were a replay review I'd have to say there's not enough evidence to convict Gurriel on the offense even though that may have been exactly what he was doing. Is this a serious statement? What the fuck else could he have been doing? And I assure you that this is a “thing”.

So of the three we lost, which one do you reverse? If it were me, alone, I'd pick 2000. No question about it. But I think now, I'd pick 2015, so my kids could feel the joy of a World Series victory at the point in their lives where it means the most.

Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: Saw Timo Perez slamming his locker and stomping out of the room in anger. Knowing Timo, he probably stomped out at half speed, and Zeile wasn't exactly riding up his tail. This memory hurts. In both of our last Game 1's, we made asshead plays and blew 1 run leads in the 9th. Stupid Mets. We should have 4 WS Championships.

Saw Timo Perez slamming his locker and stomping out of the room in anger.

Maybe it serves us right that our 2017 MFY thread was titled "LOL Yankees" and they were one fucking game away from the World Series. In 2018 lets' just go back to calling them dickheads.

Seconds later, the chains on Noah's swing broke, Noah fell and shattered his pelvis.

There was no choice that had to be made. Josh Satin had options in 2014. There was absolutely no reason not to keep Turner and Satin. When Satin sucked in 2014, he was optioned to LV, and Eric Campbell was called up. There was absolutely no choice that needed to be made, and certainly not in December 2013 between Turner, Satin, Campbell, or anyone else. The right choice was to keep all of them.

According to Amazin Avenue, the Mets opening day infield in 2014 was, Ike Davis, Daniel Murphy, Omar Quintanilla, Josh Satin, Ruben Tejada, and David Wright. If that's correct, and you accept that the Mets had lost faith in Turner as a shortstop (I know I had), then the guy they appear to have chosen over him was Josh Satin. Right. And I guarantee you there was never a discussion that went along the lines of: "Shit, we can't keep an animal like Satin caged forever. We might have to make some tough choices here guys..."

Ceetar wrote: They believed in Flores. Hell, Campbell had a 149 wRC+ in Vegas, 3x the walkrate as Turner, and was younger. Campbell ended up giving them in 2014 almost exactly what they got from Turner in 2013. There's plenty of reason to think that the Mets saw them as fairly interchangable. I think Turner was a better hitter and a better fielder than Campbell. But for the sake of argument, let's assume what you say is true. That the Mets thought they were interchangeable. Fine. KEEP THEM BOTH. There is absolutely no reason to just discard one of them for no reason. It's like being given two instant scratch off tickets. The likelihood of any of them being a winner is low. Looking at the two tickets, they look identical. In all likelihood, each ticket will give you about ten seconds of mild anticipation, followed by disappointment, then being tossed aside. But that being the case, it is absolutely foolish to simply throw away one of those tickets and say "Well, those things never win." If you do that, then you will be rightfully ridiculed when some guy picks it up and wins a million dollars. Ceetar wrote: I'm not saying that personal feelings didn't enter into it, but he was understandably a guy on the fringe of the roster. It's not like he was a 3 win player and Jeff was like 'I hate him, get him out of here' He hadn't, and wasn't, adding much value. He was completely expendable, and he was already 30. In five days, TJ Rivera will be 29 years old, the same age as Justin Turner at the time. He's likely a utility player. We have already have Wright, Cabrera, Cecchini, and Flores on the roster, and we might even bring back Reyes. We have tons of options for 2B and 3B. TJ Rivera is completely expendable. But there is absolutely no reason to expend him. If we were to just cut ties with TJ Rivera now, it would be a foolish, unforced error.

Turner's success elsewhere is a fluke. Of course it is. You can never expect something like that to happen. But it did happen. And the part that burns is that this should have been our fluke. This is an unforced error. We didn't have to make a decision, like with Murphy and Walker. We didn't have to do anything. All we had to do, was not go out of our way to actively fuck up. You don't cut players because they are chubby. I think the lack of hustle thing is a lie. There are all sorts of references to Turner being a Collins favorite. Turner, 29, spent the past three seasons as a utility man, playing all four infield positions and recently learning left field. A favorite of Collins, he hit .280 with two home runs in 214 plate appearances this season and would have been due for a modest raise through arbitration. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/64296688// Hard to picture fat, lazy non-hustling guy to be a manager's favorite.