stevejrogers

metirish wrote: Gaffner on Jeter... ] Jeter don't care 'bout stinkin' metal November 22, 2006 Maybe this is Derek Jeter's destiny: to be the best baseball player of his generation to never win an MVP award. The way it seems to be Mariano Rivera's peculiar lot in life to be the best reliever in the game's history but not have an official piece of hardware to ever prove it. No love to the Rolaids/DHL Fireman/Reliever of the Year which Mariano is a multiple time winner of, and has been around since the late 1970's. While I understand someone's point in not recognizing anything other than the Big Three (MVP, CY and ROY) and to some extent the Gold Gloves and Manager of the Year have attained "conversation worthy" status, but lets not act like those are the only MLB recognized awards. Along with "What, we're supposed to care about this now?" attitude about the Comeback Player of the Year when Giambi was nominated for the AL (not a singular MLB award as many in the media seemed to think last year when they argued Griffey OVER Giambi) this lack of caring about the "lesser" MLB awards (and there actually was a time when TSN awards actually carried some weight as well) is certainly food for thought for why is ANY of this worthy of our time and discussion if people just pick and choose which awards are considered "official pieces of hardware" to them. To me it's all fun debate and even if there is no love for the Reliever award, the Aaron award, Silver Sluggers, Comeback, Clemente and other awards given out, and even if you still follow the TSN awards, it is nice when a Met picks one up.

iramets wrote: That's a scary thought, Steve. if you can find a urologist tonight, can you run out and get a vasectomy? Just in case. I mean, think of the children. Please. Heh, don't worry, the fact that I'm overly obsessed with the Mets and Met history helps in that regard... Or maybe it's more the sci-fi/comic books?

Would you like to help then? Figuring now I should just hit the reset button on this project.

When you hear this radio ad for Cooperstown Starts out with "your grandparents went there" and has the call of Cleon Jones making the WS ending catch in 69, and then "your parents went there" and has the call of the Mookie Wilson-Bill Buckner play from the 1986 World Series. So basically I'm old enough to be someone's parent! =

iramets wrote: You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? Rewording it to "Parts of Five Seasons" would help in that particular regard. A better argument would be that the 5 seasons rule makes the Robin Venturas and John Oleruds of the world ineligible despite great production and moments (Grand Slam Single) while Bruce Boisclair, Ron Gardenhire and Rey Ordonez are on the ballot based on being with the team for parts of 5 seasons ]How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway. Which is why I said "email" me the votes and it worked fine in the past. Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, Mookie Wilson, Casey Stengel, Dave Johnson, Bob Murphy and Ralph Kiner all got in the first year I did this (on the Met Listserv at AOL and the original MOFO in 1999) Hernandez was named on all 30 emails sent to me that winter. Seaver on all but 1, Carter, Wilson and Koosman were the others with 20 or more votes. No real crazy things in that balloting either, Cleon, McGraw, Staub, Grote, Agee, Buddy, Dykstra, Ryan, Kranepool, Sid, Darling, Maz, McDowell, Backman, Ojeda were the rest of the order with Brooks, Garrett, 'Dac, Kingman, Lynch, Matlack, Magadan, McReynolds, Teufel, Stearns, Swug and Millan receiving 1 vote each. I think people sending me emails ala the Baseball Writers prevents something like Billy Wynne climbing the ranks of the UMDB's Top Popular Met List. Plus I would be able to see irregularities that go beyond someone giving a vote to their favorite player because they don't think he'd get enough votes anyway (ala the wise guys at the BBWAA who give a vote to a person on the HOF ballot because he was a nice guy or he knew the writer in college or something, or maybe they feel any award winner deserves a vote or whatever) So now you are saying something is flawed in the BBWAA process? I see your point with the Rick Ferrell induction by the Vets (Ferrell was in poor health and a friend asked everyone to vote for him thinking no onelse would and lo and behold Ferrell got in) ]Do it right Okay, give me some suggestions then for a better process?

="KC"] What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares? Heh! I don't know. I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?" They actually do have a screening process first, weeding out the Bernie Carbos and Kurt Stillwells of the world, but for whatever reason I didn't think A) the Mets had enough of a history that would neccsitate such a process, only 40 plus years and There wouldn't be as much support anyway a second time around after the first process. Maybe I'll re-think the whole thing next year and do it that way, and come up with a different year range as well as I've always seen the 5 years as the time frame for any team oriented thing, maybe its just me as it's half the time of the guidlines on the actual baseball HOF ballot and generally most players of note tend to stay 5 years with a club.

Interesting followup on Jeff Reardon in the Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/11/26/toughest_save/?page=1 5 pages, but you have to register for it so... ]Toughest save Grief-stricken Reardon tries to pull himself together By Stan Grossfeld, Globe Staff | November 26, 2006 PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. -- Jeff Reardon plunged into darkness after his 20-year-old son died of an accidental drug overdose in February 2004. His mind tormented with pain, guilt, and suicidal thoughts, the former All-Star reliever for the Red Sox shut himself in a bedroom and blotted out the sun with hurricane shutters. "I was in that room all the time," says Reardon, 51. "For months I wouldn't come out of there. It's still a struggle not to go back in there." Reardon, a Dalton, Mass., native who pitched for Boston from 1990-92 and became baseball's all-time saves leader in '92 (he's now No. 6 on the list), couldn't save his son. And he couldn't save himself. In fact, the greatest save in Reardon's life may have been made by a trucker who was driving 70 m.p.h. down the Bee Line Highway in Florida last December. "I pulled over and parked on the side of the road, got out and walked in front of a semi truck," says Reardon, matter-of-factly. "The thing swerved and missed me, and then for some reason I came home and told my wife." She took him to a mental hospital for treatment. The man nicknamed "The Terminator" had lost the one thing he had had an abundance of all his life: control. On Dec. 26, 2005, just three days after undergoing an angioplasty, Reardon strolled into Hamilton Jewelers in the Gardens Mall in Palm Beach Gardens and presented a sloppily scrawled note that said, "I have a gun. Please place $100 bills and jewelry in this bag and no one will get hurt. Thank you." Reardon shrugs. "When I did the robbery, it came out of nowhere," he says. "It was the day after Christmas. I said I was going to go to the mall to get a coffee maker. So, from saying that, somehow I ended up robbing the store. And I don't even know why. That time of my life I don't remember, the robbery included. I don't remember making the note." Reardon says he needed neither money nor jewelry. He wears three gaudy baseball rings, one symbolizing the Twins' victory in the 1987 World Series. He made $11.5 million in his 16-year career with the Mets, Expos, Twins, Red Sox, Braves, Reds, and Yankees. The four-time All-Star finished with a 73-77 record, 367 saves, and a 3.16 ERA. But Reardon insists he was psychotic -- under the influence of 12 antidepressants, mood stabilizers, heart medications, and antibiotics -- when he committed the robbery. "Something with the medication kicked in that day," he says. "I was going to different doctors, but they knew what I was on. I said, 'You sure it's all right? I'm taking this and this.' They said 'Oh yeah.' But it wasn't." * Home > * Sports > * Baseball > * Red Sox The Boston Globe Toughest save Grief-stricken Reardon tries to pull himself together By Stan Grossfeld, Globe Staff | November 26, 2006 PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. -- Jeff Reardon plunged into darkness after his 20-year-old son died of an accidental drug overdose in February 2004. His mind tormented with pain, guilt, and suicidal thoughts, the former All-Star reliever for the Red Sox shut himself in a bedroom and blotted out the sun with hurricane shutters. "I was in that room all the time," says Reardon, 51. "For months I wouldn't come out of there. It's still a struggle not to go back in there." Reardon, a Dalton, Mass., native who pitched for Boston from 1990-92 and became baseball's all-time saves leader in '92 (he's now No. 6 on the list), couldn't save his son. And he couldn't save himself. In fact, the greatest save in Reardon's life may have been made by a trucker who was driving 70 m.p.h. down the Bee Line Highway in Florida last December. "I pulled over and parked on the side of the road, got out and walked in front of a semi truck," says Reardon, matter-of-factly. "The thing swerved and missed me, and then for some reason I came home and told my wife." She took him to a mental hospital for treatment. The man nicknamed "The Terminator" had lost the one thing he had had an abundance of all his life: control. On Dec. 26, 2005, just three days after undergoing an angioplasty, Reardon strolled into Hamilton Jewelers in the Gardens Mall in Palm Beach Gardens and presented a sloppily scrawled note that said, "I have a gun. Please place $100 bills and jewelry in this bag and no one will get hurt. Thank you." Reardon shrugs. "When I did the robbery, it came out of nowhere," he says. "It was the day after Christmas. I said I was going to go to the mall to get a coffee maker. So, from saying that, somehow I ended up robbing the store. And I don't even know why. That time of my life I don't remember, the robbery included. I don't remember making the note." Reardon says he needed neither money nor jewelry. He wears three gaudy baseball rings, one symbolizing the Twins' victory in the 1987 World Series. He made $11.5 million in his 16-year career with the Mets, Expos, Twins, Red Sox, Braves, Reds, and Yankees. The four-time All-Star finished with a 73-77 record, 367 saves, and a 3.16 ERA. But Reardon insists he was psychotic -- under the influence of 12 antidepressants, mood stabilizers, heart medications, and antibiotics -- when he committed the robbery. "Something with the medication kicked in that day," he says. "I was going to different doctors, but they knew what I was on. I said, 'You sure it's all right? I'm taking this and this.' They said 'Oh yeah.' But it wasn't." With $170 in a green Hamilton Jewelers bag, he approached a security guard in the mall parking lot. "I walked up to him and said, 'Hey, I think I've done something stupid. I robbed a store.' He goes, 'What are you talking about?' I said, 'I'm on a lot of medications. I feel like I've screwed up. But I've got a bag here that says Hamilton Jewelers, there's cash in there.' "He called the police. Supposedly, the police pulled their guns on me, 'cause I wouldn't put my hands up. But I don't remember that, either. The psychiatrist told me, 'You might have been trying to commit suicide by having them shoot you.' "That's how depressed I was. I didn't care about living at all. And yes, I have two [other] kids, and I think the world of them. But at that time, depression is a scary thing." Innocent by insanity Reardon was promptly arrested. He immediately apologized, telling police he "flipped on his medications." His disheveled arrest picture was splashed all across the newspapers. "He was in a terrible, terrible depression," says his wife of 29 years, Phebe, a Newton, Mass., native. "The only good thing that came of the robbery is that it got Jeff some help." Said Reardon, "I don't even remember that I spent a night in jail. When I see the clips on TV of me shackled, I don't remember any of that." He was released the next day on a $5,000 bond. In August, a judge found Reardon innocent by reason of insanity after court-appointed psychiatrists testified that he was in a psychotic state because of the medications. Between the time of his arrest and his trial, Reardon spent a month in a mental hospital receiving electroshock therapy three times a week. He is now taking only two medications, along with monthly shock treatments. "I hate going," he says. "Before, I didn't care if I went under and didn't wake up. If they didn't pull me out, who cares? That's how I felt for a long time." His doctors are optimistic. "They say, 'Oh, you're like 100 percent better,' but I'm still depressed," says Reardon, who has begun to exercise again. "It's almost like it's a struggle to do everything. The pain never goes away. To tell the truth, the day is so long for me since Shane died. I don't know what to do. A day to me seems like a week." Reardon says he recently penned a letter of apology to the jewelry store saleswoman. She did not reply. James Silfies, regional director for Hamilton Jewelers, acknowledges the company received the letter, but the saleswoman declined to be interviewed. "It was an unfortunate incident," said Silfies. "We wish him the very best."Continued... Troubled road to tragedy Reardon says Shane, the middle of his three children, was nothing like him. He was very outgoing. He was into music, very creative, and always smiling. They shared a love of Bob Dylan and Pink Floyd. Shane wanted to be a rapper. "He was actually just the opposite of me, even though I was a ballplayer," Reardon says. "I wasn't real popular or happy-go-lucky. He had a great personality. He was very caring and very loving. He had like 20 best friends." In high school, when Shane started getting into trouble with drugs, Reardon sent him to Swift River, an exclusive therapeutic boarding school for troubled teens in Western Massachusetts. "I was anti-drugs, big-time," says Reardon. "Even when I went to UMass in the '70s. It's kind of weird how Shane ended up." Reardon says that when his son graduated from Swift River with honors, he was off drugs. He enrolled in Full Sail, a school in Winter Park, Fla., that offered music programs. But what happened next haunts Reardon. At Christmas in 2003, Shane and an old friend from his drug-using days convinced Reardon they were both clean and would live together at Full Sail. "He said he was straight and off drugs," Reardon says. "Because we are nice people, we believed him. Two months later, our son is dead. I'm always going to feel guilty about that. He was into drugs big-time." Reardon says Shane's roommate found him unconscious but breathing on the couch, dragged him to the shower, but failed to revive him and left. By the time he returned, Shane had turned blue. The roommate told police he thought Shane was drunk. An autopsy determined that he died of a lethal dose of methadone, a synthetic narcotic used to treat heroin users. "They could've called 911 at any time, they had plenty of time to save him," says Reardon. Phebe says she had a premonition of Shane's death. "The night Shane died, I took a nap and I dreamed he died," she says. "I got up all sweaty and shaking. It was 6 p.m. I called him, but of course he didn't answer. He was unconscious at the time, and I got the call four hours later. How's that for spooky?" The Reardons sold their lakeside Berkshire home, where they spent summers together, and Reardon gave away their belongings. It held too many memories of their energetic son, making campfires, setting off fireworks, and water-tubing around the lake. "It hurt to be up there without him," says Reardon. Trying to reconnect The Reardons have a guest book permanently set up for Shane Reardon on Legacy.com and a foundation in his name. Reardon logs in every day and has written 25 messages to Shane. "It makes me feel better," he says. Sometimes, he reads the hundreds of messages and weeps. It is a very public place for a very private man. Reardon writes that he would trade places with Shane "in a heartbeat." He also writes things that rip at a man's soul. "Please come home. We need you with us," he wrote on what would have been Shane's 21st birthday. Shane's tombstone has a picture of him in his favorite blue suit, smiling. Reardon says messages and souvenirs from friends always surround it. Since he retired from baseball in 1994, Reardon had spent most of his time playing golf and fishing, but that stopped when Shane died. Now his oldest son, Jay, is trying to get him back out on the links. And he's talking about baseball again. "I don't think [Jonathan] Papelbon should be a starter," says Reardon, referencing the young Sox pitcher. "You got a gutsy closer like him that can deal with that pressure every night, you keep him right there." He's also reestablishing some friendships. "Actually, we [recently] went out to eat with some of the guys I played with for the first time since our son died. So at least now I'm getting out of the house all the time." But that creates problems for Reardon, who previously went unrecognized around town. "It bothers the hell out of me that I did it because it's been awfully embarrassing for me," he acknowledges. "I get embarrassed when people recognize me now. It ain't from baseball. I can tell. "When I go to the Publix -- I do this to stay busy -- I can see the guy whispering in his wife's ear. I know what he's saying, 'That's the guy that robbed the jewelry store, the ballplayer.' He ain't saying, 'That's the guy that saved 370 games.' " Ask Reardon if he is nuts, and he laughs. "I'm perfectly normal; they made me nuts," he says. "That's why I didn't mind getting a charge of insanity." He bristles at people who say he got star treatment from the court system. "I think it was just the opposite," he contends. "I think they kept it going because I was a baseball star. "I had no gun. Twelve medications. People get off of murders because of medications. Yes, it was wrong, and I admit that, and I feel very bad about doing that. But anybody who thinks I got preferential treatment is full of it. "I didn't have to work since I retired. I got $170 in the robbery. I had like $600 in my wallet. Look at this house, it's all paid for with Boston Red Sox money." Tarnished collection Reardon's trophy room looks like a wing of the Hall of Fame. Signed Reardon uniforms -- from his Montreal days to his final season, with the Yankees -- line the wall. Trophies and photos freeze moments of joy. There's a photo combo of a young Roger Clemens dumping Gatorade on Reardon after he surpassed Rollie Fingers as the all-time saves leader and then lifting him on his shoulders. "Oh yeah, I remember that game," says Reardon. "It was a 1-0 game against the Yankees [June 15, 1992]. I pitched the last inning. Roger, [Tom] Brunansky, Matt Young put me on their shoulders. Roger actually wanted to carry me around the field. I said, 'No, just take me to my wife in the seats.' " There's former President Reagan welcoming the champion Twins at the White House, and a dapper Reardon standing over his shoulder. There's a signed picture of Ted Williams waving a Red Sox cap to the Fenway faithful. "Back then, the other ballplayers weren't that impressed with old- timers," Reardon says. "It was Ted Williams Day. Me and Wade [boggs] were the only ones out there. Ted sat next to us before he went on the field. He said, 'Hey, Reardon, let me borrow your hat.' He's stuffing it in his back pocket, he's sitting all over it. "I said, 'What the hell is he doing with my hat? That's my game hat.' Then he went out and pulled it out and waved it. Williams was famous for not tipping his hat. It was kind of great." Reardon was the first player to save 30 games five consecutive seasons. He was on the 2000 Hall of Fame ballot but fell one vote short of the 5 percent necessary to remain on the ballot. "Compare my numbers to Rollie, [bruce] Sutter and [Rich] Gossage," he says. There's Reardon and Shane riding in the Twins World Series parade in Minneapolis. "He loved to go in the clubhouse, and Kirby Puckett and Bert Blyleven loved him," Reardon remembers. "Carl Pohlad, the owner of the Twins, used to have a table of candy -- it was like trick or treat every night. Bert used to pick up Shane and turn him upside-down and shake him and all the candy would come out. Shane had the look to him, that smile and all. "All of this really meant so much to me, and now to me it doesn't really mean anything at all." With $170 in a green Hamilton Jewelers bag, he approached a security guard in the mall parking lot "I walked up to him and said, 'Hey, I think I've done something stupid. I robbed a store.' He goes, 'What are you talking about?' I said, 'I'm on a lot of medications. I feel like I've screwed up. But I've got a bag here that says Hamilton Jewelers, there's cash in there.' "He called the police. Supposedly, the police pulled their guns on me, 'cause I wouldn't put my hands up. But I don't remember that, either. The psychiatrist told me, 'You might have been trying to commit suicide by having them shoot you.' "That's how depressed I was. I didn't care about living at all. And yes, I have two [other] kids, and I think the world of them. But at that time, depression is a scary thing." Innocent by insanity Reardon was promptly arrested. He immediately apologized, telling police he "flipped on his medications." His disheveled arrest picture was splashed all across the newspapers. "He was in a terrible, terrible depression," says his wife of 29 years, Phebe, a Newton, Mass., native. "The only good thing that came of the robbery is that it got Jeff some help." Said Reardon, "I don't even remember that I spent a night in jail. When I see the clips on TV of me shackled, I don't remember any of that." He was released the next day on a $5,000 bond. In August, a judge found Reardon innocent by reason of insanity after court-appointed psychiatrists testified that he was in a psychotic state because of the medications. Between the time of his arrest and his trial, Reardon spent a month in a mental hospital receiving electroshock therapy three times a week. He is now taking only two medications, along with monthly shock treatments. "I hate going," he says. "Before, I didn't care if I went under and didn't wake up. If they didn't pull me out, who cares? That's how I felt for a long time." His doctors are optimistic. "They say, 'Oh, you're like 100 percent better,' but I'm still depressed," says Reardon, who has begun to exercise again. "It's almost like it's a struggle to do everything. The pain never goes away. To tell the truth, the day is so long for me since Shane died. I don't know what to do. A day to me seems like a week." Reardon says he recently penned a letter of apology to the jewelry store saleswoman. She did not reply. James Silfies, regional director for Hamilton Jewelers, acknowledges the company received the letter, but the saleswoman declined to be interviewed. "It was an unfortunate incident," said Silfies. "We wish him the very best." Troubled road to tragedy Reardon says Shane, the middle of his three children, was nothing like him. He was very outgoing. He was into music, very creative, and always smiling. They shared a love of Bob Dylan and Pink Floyd. Shane wanted to be a rapper. "He was actually just the opposite of me, even though I was a ballplayer," Reardon says. "I wasn't real popular or happy-go-lucky. He had a great personality. He was very caring and very loving. He had like 20 best friends." In high school, when Shane started getting into trouble with drugs, Reardon sent him to Swift River, an exclusive therapeutic boarding school for troubled teens in Western Massachusetts. "I was anti-drugs, big-time," says Reardon. "Even when I went to UMass in the '70s. It's kind of weird how Shane ended up." Reardon says that when his son graduated from Swift River with honors, he was off drugs. He enrolled in Full Sail, a school in Winter Park, Fla., that offered music programs. But what happened next haunts Reardon. At Christmas in 2003, Shane and an old friend from his drug-using days convinced Reardon they were both clean and would live together at Full Sail. "He said he was straight and off drugs," Reardon says. "Because we are nice people, we believed him. Two months later, our son is dead. I'm always going to feel guilty about that. He was into drugs big-time." Reardon says Shane's roommate found him unconscious but breathing on the couch, dragged him to the shower, but failed to revive him and left. By the time he returned, Shane had turned blue. The roommate told police he thought Shane was drunk. An autopsy determined that he died of a lethal dose of methadone, a synthetic narcotic used to treat heroin users. "They could've called 911 at any time, they had plenty of time to save him," says Reardon. Phebe says she had a premonition of Shane's death. "The night Shane died, I took a nap and I dreamed he died," she says. "I got up all sweaty and shaking. It was 6 p.m. I called him, but of course he didn't answer. He was unconscious at the time, and I got the call four hours later. How's that for spooky?" The Reardons sold their lakeside Berkshire home, where they spent summers together, and Reardon gave away their belongings. It held too many memories of their energetic son, making campfires, setting off fireworks, and water-tubing around the lake. "It hurt to be up there without him," says Reardon. Trying to reconnect The Reardons have a guest book permanently set up for Shane Reardon on Legacy.com and a foundation in his name. Reardon logs in every day and has written 25 messages to Shane. "It makes me feel better," he says. Sometimes, he reads the hundreds of messages and weeps. It is a very public place for a very private man. Reardon writes that he would trade places with Shane "in a heartbeat." He also writes things that rip at a man's soul. "Please come home. We need you with us," he wrote on what would have been Shane's 21st birthday. Shane's tombstone has a picture of him in his favorite blue suit, smiling. Reardon says messages and souvenirs from friends always surround it. Since he retired from baseball in 1994, Reardon had spent most of his time playing golf and fishing, but that stopped when Shane died. Now his oldest son, Jay, is trying to get him back out on the links. And he's talking about baseball again. "I don't think [Jonathan] Papelbon should be a starter," says Reardon, referencing the young Sox pitcher. "You got a gutsy closer like him that can deal with that pressure every night, you keep him right there." He's also reestablishing some friendships. "Actually, we [recently] went out to eat with some of the guys I played with for the first time since our son died. So at least now I'm getting out of the house all the time." But that creates problems for Reardon, who previously went unrecognized around town. "It bothers the hell out of me that I did it because it's been awfully embarrassing for me," he acknowledges. "I get embarrassed when people recognize me now. It ain't from baseball. I can tell. "When I go to the Publix -- I do this to stay busy -- I can see the guy whispering in his wife's ear. I know what he's saying, 'That's the guy that robbed the jewelry store, the ballplayer.' He ain't saying, 'That's the guy that saved 370 games.' " Ask Reardon if he is nuts, and he laughs. "I'm perfectly normal; they made me nuts," he says. "That's why I didn't mind getting a charge of insanity." He bristles at people who say he got star treatment from the court system. "I think it was just the opposite," he contends. "I think they kept it going because I was a baseball star. "I had no gun. Twelve medications. People get off of murders because of medications. Yes, it was wrong, and I admit that, and I feel very bad about doing that. But anybody who thinks I got preferential treatment is full of it. "I didn't have to work since I retired. I got $170 in the robbery. I had like $600 in my wallet. Look at this house, it's all paid for with Boston Red Sox money." Tarnished collection Reardon's trophy room looks like a wing of the Hall of Fame. Signed Reardon uniforms -- from his Montreal days to his final season, with the Yankees -- line the wall. Trophies and photos freeze moments of joy. There's a photo combo of a young Roger Clemens dumping Gatorade on Reardon after he surpassed Rollie Fingers as the all-time saves leader and then lifting him on his shoulders. "Oh yeah, I remember that game," says Reardon. "It was a 1-0 game against the Yankees [June 15, 1992]. I pitched the last inning. Roger, [Tom] Brunansky, Matt Young put me on their shoulders. Roger actually wanted to carry me around the field. I said, 'No, just take me to my wife in the seats.' " There's former President Reagan welcoming the champion Twins at the White House, and a dapper Reardon standing over his shoulder. There's a signed picture of Ted Williams waving a Red Sox cap to the Fenway faithful. "Back then, the other ballplayers weren't that impressed with old- timers," Reardon says. "It was Ted Williams Day. Me and Wade [boggs] were the only ones out there. Ted sat next to us before he went on the field. He said, 'Hey, Reardon, let me borrow your hat.' He's stuffing it in his back pocket, he's sitting all over it. "I said, 'What the hell is he doing with my hat? That's my game hat.' Then he went out and pulled it out and waved it. Williams was famous for not tipping his hat. It was kind of great." Reardon was the first player to save 30 games five consecutive seasons. He was on the 2000 Hall of Fame ballot but fell one vote short of the 5 percent necessary to remain on the ballot. "Compare my numbers to Rollie, [bruce] Sutter and [Rich] Gossage," he says. There's Reardon and Shane riding in the Twins World Series parade in Minneapolis. "He loved to go in the clubhouse, and Kirby Puckett and Bert Blyleven loved him," Reardon remembers. "Carl Pohlad, the owner of the Twins, used to have a table of candy -- it was like trick or treat every night. Bert used to pick up Shane and turn him upside-down and shake him and all the candy would come out. Shane had the look to him, that smile and all. "All of this really meant so much to me, and now to me it doesn't really mean anything at all."

"Quiet Leader" is the default level designation for someone with whatever number of posts (I think it starts in the 700 range) I have over there, not a custom designation. ]when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares? Actually I'm thanking Ira for finally saying "Hey moron, you have some errors in this document!" I didn't mean to sound offended, and I'm glad someone took the oppertunity to point it out. Lord knows it appeared that I needed it back in 99 or whenever I wrote the original. Maybe next year I'll just scrap the entire thing and start over with a different way of organizing it.

There is a book Tug McGraw did with IIRC Joe Durso that was kind of autobiography/year in review after the 73 season, and there is even a book on the 1974 season! (Through the eyes of the pitching staff) But are there any tomes written about "The Second Miracle?" Seems like it gets the "short shrift" and granted I know that it's probably due to the 69 Mets winning it all and how it was all done (100-1 odds, expansion franchise, Summer of Woodstock, ect), and the 73 squad came up short, but in some respects 1973 would probably have made a more compelling story.

BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors. Thanks Geez, I should think about some copy editing courses at Iona... Later

="iramets"]="SteveJRogers"]1962-1966, thats all or parts of 4 seasons my friend. Stengel and Hodges were both inducted if you see the ballot post. ] Yes, [Larry David tone of voice here] my friend [/Larry David tone of voice here], but Stengel managed for fewer than four seasons and your rule above just says "four seasons," not "any part of four seasons." So you've either broken your own rule by inducting Stengel, or your rule is incorrectly written. Thats fair. HahnSolo Nov 25 2006 01:25 PM It also applies to Dykstra and McDowell. Neither of them played five full seasons as a Met. Same goes for Aguilera. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 10:20 AM BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors. Thanks Geez, I should think about some copy editing courses at Iona... Later KC Nov 26 2006 12:18 PM You'd think after four times it wouldn't give a person a headache to read it. I mean really, how many people got through this whole post without wanting to bang their heads on the keyboard? I'm not picking on you, but you're big on this, "I'm an internet legend" and you're a "Quiet Leader" on mofo, and when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares? What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares? Note: The preceding post may contain errors in grammar, spelling, and reason. Any resemblance to a post that is clear, well thought out, or even warranted is pure coincidence. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 12:57 PM "Quiet Leader" is the default level designation for someone with whatever number of posts (I think it starts in the 700 range) I have over there, not a custom designation. ]when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares? Actually I'm thanking Ira for finally saying "Hey moron, you have some errors in this document!" I didn't mean to sound offended, and I'm glad someone took the oppertunity to point it out. Lord knows it appeared that I needed it back in 99 or whenever I wrote the original. Maybe next year I'll just scrap the entire thing and start over with a different way of organizing it. KC Nov 26 2006 01:50 PM Ok, got ya. No teflon ... just indifference. Either way, or both, I'm prolly right. I incorrectly assumed you were offended if what you say is the case. I thought you were being sarcastic. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 03:32 PM ="KC"] What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares? Heh! I don't know. I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?" They actually do have a screening process first, weeding out the Bernie Carbos and Kurt Stillwells of the world, but for whatever reason I didn't think A) the Mets had enough of a history that would neccsitate such a process, only 40 plus years and There wouldn't be as much support anyway a second time around after the first process. Maybe I'll re-think the whole thing next year and do it that way, and come up with a different year range as well as I've always seen the 5 years as the time frame for any team oriented thing, maybe its just me as it's half the time of the guidlines on the actual baseball HOF ballot and generally most players of note tend to stay 5 years with a club. iramets Nov 26 2006 04:25 PM SteveJRogers wrote: I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?. Ya know, I bet Michael Richards thought firing off a few N-bombs during his act last week was a good move at the time. I mean, "Why not?" You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway. My advice? Do it right, or don't do it at all. And, with no unkindness intended, based on what you've shown here, I don't know if you're capable of doing it right. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 04:45 PM SJR - "BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors." That's because we're self righteous, know it all, elitist pricks and the people on the other boards aren't. Actually, I didn't interpret Steve's response to iramets' critique of his grammar to be sarcastic. I took it to be more in the vain of, "I screwed up again". SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 05:01 PM iramets wrote: You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? Rewording it to "Parts of Five Seasons" would help in that particular regard. A better argument would be that the 5 seasons rule makes the Robin Venturas and John Oleruds of the world ineligible despite great production and moments (Grand Slam Single) while Bruce Boisclair, Ron Gardenhire and Rey Ordonez are on the ballot based on being with the team for parts of 5 seasons ]How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway. Which is why I said "email" me the votes and it worked fine in the past. Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, Mookie Wilson, Casey Stengel, Dave Johnson, Bob Murphy and Ralph Kiner all got in the first year I did this (on the Met Listserv at AOL and the original MOFO in 1999) Hernandez was named on all 30 emails sent to me that winter. Seaver on all but 1, Carter, Wilson and Koosman were the others with 20 or more votes. No real crazy things in that balloting either, Cleon, McGraw, Staub, Grote, Agee, Buddy, Dykstra, Ryan, Kranepool, Sid, Darling, Maz, McDowell, Backman, Ojeda were the rest of the order with Brooks, Garrett, 'Dac, Kingman, Lynch, Matlack, Magadan, McReynolds, Teufel, Stearns, Swug and Millan receiving 1 vote each. I think people sending me emails ala the Baseball Writers prevents something like Billy Wynne climbing the ranks of the UMDB's Top Popular Met List. Plus I would be able to see irregularities that go beyond someone giving a vote to their favorite player because they don't think he'd get enough votes anyway (ala the wise guys at the BBWAA who give a vote to a person on the HOF ballot because he was a nice guy or he knew the writer in college or something, or maybe they feel any award winner deserves a vote or whatever) So now you are saying something is flawed in the BBWAA process? I see your point with the Rick Ferrell induction by the Vets (Ferrell was in poor health and a friend asked everyone to vote for him thinking no onelse would and lo and behold Ferrell got in) ]Do it right Okay, give me some suggestions then for a better process? iramets Nov 26 2006 05:43 PM Well, I'd start with making someone other than you the vote-counter. That's not a dig at your ability, btw. You need accountability in any voting process, and "Trust me, I'll be fair" isn't going to cut it. Then I'd have "internet voting" being only one constituency among many, all of which would need to agree on a candidate to be put on the ballot. This may seem to complicate things, which it does at first, but it also allows you to eliminate a lot of other stupid rules (like "x years in a met uniform," which has more problems than I've hinted at here.) Possible "other" constituencies might be "Met Bloggers," who although they're anonymous need to maintain ther reputations as authorities. Maybe I'd have another group of "Mets historians," like the guys here who run "Mets By the Numbers" and "the UMDB" and like that. If all six or seven of these constituencies agree on a group of candidates, then they're Mets HOFers whatever length of service they have, and there's no point in flooding the internet voting with absurd crap because it's only going to influence that one group, so the qualilty of internet voting will improve as well. That's just for starters. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 05:54 PM Would you like to help then? Figuring now I should just hit the reset button on this project. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 06:07 PM All hail the sacred Seaver post. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 06:12 PM iramets, I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but both UMDB and MBTN sites are created and run by members of the CPF. The UMDB is the work of Yancey Street Gang while Mets by the Numbers is done by Johhny Dickshot. ScarletKnight41 Nov 26 2006 06:22 PM Elster88 Nov 27 2006 07:51 PM HAIL

Remember email your votes to me at mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com Do not post them here except for debating purposes NEW YORK METS FAN HALL OF FAME BALLOT Results of Past Elections: 1999: Keith Hernandez, Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Mookie Wilson Davey Johnson, Ralph Kiner, Bob Murphy, Casey Stengel 2000: Jerry Koosman, Gil Hodges 2001: Tug McGraw Players: Inactive (Did not play a game in the majors in 2006) players with 5 or more years played with the Mets Vote for as many as ten INFIELDERS: Wally Backman 1980-1988 Ken Boswell 1967-1974 Hubie Brooks 1980-1984, 1991 Kevin Elster 1986-1992 Ron Gardenhire 1981-1985 Wayne Garrett 1969-1976 Doug Flynn 1977-1981 Matt Franco 1996-2000 Buddy Harrelson 1965-1977 Gregg Jefferies 1987-1991 Howard Johnson 1985-1993 Mike Jorgensen 1968, 1970-1971, 1980-1983 Dave Kingman 1975-1977, 1981-1983 Ed Kranepool 1962-1979 Dave Magadan 1986-1992 Teddy Martinez 1970-1974 Felix Millan 1973-1977 Keith Miller 1987-1991 John Milner 1971-1977 Rey Ordonez 1996-2002 Tim Teufel 1986-1991 Joel Youngblood 1977-1982 OUTFIELDERS Tommie Agee 1968-1972 Bruce Boisclair 1974-1979 Bobby Bonilla 1992-1995, 1999 Mark Carreon 1987-1992 Len Dykstra 1985-1989 George Foster 1982-1986 Jim Hickman 1962-1966 Butch Huskey 1993, 1995-1998 Cleon Jones 1963, 1965-1975 Lee Mazzilli 1976-1981, 1986-1989 Kevin McReynolds 1987-1991, 1994 Rusty Staub 1972-1975, 1981-198 Darryl Strawberry 1983-1990 Ron Swoboda 1965-1970 CATCHERS Duffy Dyer 1968-1974 Jerry Grote 1966-1977 Ron Hodges 1973-1984 Todd Hundley 1990-1998 Barry Lyons 1986-1990 Mackey Sasser 1988-1992 John Stearns 1975-1984 Alex Trevino 1978-1981, 1990 PITCHERS Rick Aguilera 1985-1989 Neil Allen 1979-1983 Bob Apodaca 1973-1977 David Cone 1987-1992, 2003 Ron Darling 1983-1991 Nino Espinosa 1974-1978 Sid Fernandez 1984-1993 John Franco 1990-2001, 2003-2004 Danny Frisella 1967-1972 Dwight Gooden 1984-1994 Tom Hausman 1978-1982 Jeff Innis 1987-1993 Al Jackson 1962-1965, 1968-1969 Bobby Jones 1993-2000 Al Leiter 1998-2004 Terry Leach 1981-1982, 1985-1989 Skip Lockwood 1975-1979 Ed Lynch 1980-1986 Jon Matlack 1971-1977 Jim McAndrew 1968-1973 Roger McDowell 1985-1989 Randy Myers 1985-1989 Bob Ojeda 1986-1990 Jesse Orosco 1979, 1981-1987 Rick Reed 1997-2001 Grant Roberts 2000-2004 Nolan Ryan 1966, 1968-1971 Ray Sadecki 1970-1974, 1977 Doug Sisk 1982-1987 Craig Swan 1973-1984 Ron Taylor 1967-1971 Hank Webb 1972-1976 Turk Wendell 1997-2001 Pat Zachry 1977-1982 Managers and Coaches: Met Managers and Coaches with 4 or more years of service with the Mets Vote for as many as 5 Yogi Berra Manager 1972-1975, Coach 1965-1971 Dallas Green 1993-1996 Joe Torre 1977-1981 Bobby Valentine 1996-2002 Bob Apodaca 1996-1999 Phil Cavaretta 1975-1978 Mike Cubbage 1990-1996 Buddy Harrelson 1982, 1985-1990 Vern Hoscheit 1984-1987 Frank Howard 1982-1984, 1994-1996 Willie Mays 1974-1980 Tommy McCraw 1992-1996 Roy McMillan 1973-1976 Randy Niemann 1997-1999, 2001-2002 Greg Pavlick 1985-1986, 1988-1991, 1994-1996 Joe Pignatano 1968-1981 Bill Robinson 1984-1989 Sheriff Robinson 1964-1967, 1972 Tom Robson 1997-1999, 2000, 2002 Cookie Rojas 1997-2000 Mel Stottlemyre 1984-1993 Rube Walker 1968-1981 Mookie Wilson 1997-2002 Bobby Wine 1993-1996 Eddie Yost 1968-1976 Broadcasters Met Broadcasters with 5 or more years of service with the Mets Vote for as many as 5 Luis Alicea 1987-2006 (Spanish Radio) Billy Berroa 1987-1993, 1997-2006 (Spanish Radio) Gary Cohen 1989-2006 (Radio & TV) Ed Coleman 1996-2006 (Radio) Fran Healy 1984-2005 (TV) Keith Hernandez 1999-2006 (TV) Matt Loughlin 1996-2005 (TV) Tim McCarver 1983-1998 (TV) Renato Morffi 1991-1996 (Spanish Radio) Lindsey Nelson 1962-1978 (Radio & TV) Ted Robinson 2001-2005 (Radio & TV) Howie Rose 1987-1991, 1994-2006 (Radio & TV) Armando Talavera 1987-1993 (Spanish Radio) Gary Thorne 1985-1988, 1996-2002 (Radio &TV) Tom Seaver 1999-2005 (TV) Rusty Staub 1987-1995 (TV) Steve Zabriskie 1983-1989 (TV) OTHERS: Write in up to 5 Met personnel that does not fit into the other categories (i.e. GMs, owners, vice presidents, scouts, ect...)

] So Casey's ineligible? And Gil just squeeked in? Cool. You've obviously devoted years of careful thought here. 1962-1966, thats all or parts of 4 seasons my friend. Stengel and Hodges were both inducted if you see the ballot post. ] a) Players 75% Other Personnel 70% Is this distinction worth making? Wouldn't you be better off to ask for a high nominating percentage, and then run a series of increasingly lower-percentage runoffs? This would assure you'd have good candidates on the ballot, and a lively discussion. Also I'd shoot for having more constituiencies, all of whom would have to agree on candidates, to prevent the mass of mindless morons having their way with you (unless clusterfucking is your thing. It may be, since this whole process seems designed for the maximum clusterfuck effect. Let the games begin!)

Merged with Rules

Thought I'd re-start this project I had going a few years back called The Mets Fans Hall of Fame. Hopefully I'll see if I can find a home for it as well! This concept is borrowed from the , basically the Internet Community fanbase will vote, regular BBWAA HOF style Well, without much further adue, here is the Rules: NEW YORK METS FAN HALL OF FAME RULES ELECTION RULES FOR INDUCTION IN THE MET FANS HALL OF FAME: Election Rules I. General 1) Elections for induction into the New York Mets Fans Hall of Fame will be held annually during the off season. The 2006 voting will take place between Saturday 11/25/06 to Monday, 12/25/06 4) Any member of the Internet community is eligible to vote. The ballot and rules will be posted on the Mets newsgroups, message boards and mailing lists 5) Results of the year's election will be posted to the newsgroups, message boards mailing lists. II. Eligibility 1) Any Mets player from the past is eligible provided a) He played at least 5 years as a Met and Has been retired from major league baseball 2) Any Mets manager or coach is eligible provided a) He must have manager or coach for at least 4 years 3) Any Mets broadcaster is eligible provided a) He must have broadcasted Met games for at least 5 years III. Elections 1) Any one on the net, newsgroups and mailing list may vote for up to ten former players, up to five managers/coaches, up to five broadcasters and up to five other Mets' personnel. This is done by sending a completed ballot directly to me, Steve J. Rogers at mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com On the internet just cut and past the ballot with your selections noted and send it to me. Any ballots posted to the newsgroups or mailing lists will be ignored for vote-counting purposes, as the election is secret ballot. 2) An inductee must receive a supermajority of votes according to the following schedule: a) Players 75% Other Personnel 70% Email: mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com

Actually...

metirish wrote: I was wondering who Pronk is......weird nickname. Travis Hafner. Based on him being a labeled a "Project" type coming up, I'm not entirely sure where the "nk" came out from though

He also had some sort of beef with Joe Girardi that caused Girardi to use him as a human pinanta during Mike Pelfrey's debut

An exhastive book on the Finley A's (400 pages). Book came out sometime in the late 1990's so obviously the title is outdated and all.Started reading it a year ago on my last company trip, only got up to the 1972 World Series, picking it up again now, hopefully I'll finish it by the time I get to the 2007 trip!

Elster88 wrote: ="SteveJRogers"]Game 5 2000 World Series. Oh, yeah, it only SEEMED like a Road Game... Game 2 of the aforementioned World Series. I called up a MFY fan cousin of mine that night and gave a concession message on his apartment's answering machine. He and his roomates left it up all winter. These are the reasons why no one likes you. Fair point, I've been less obnoxious outside of the internet in recent years though. I'm still refered to as a bi-polar fan though when it comes to the Mets by a Royals fan at work. One day I'm all "METELLENIUM IS HERE, WE ARE GOING ALL THE WAY!" the next it's "Ah who cares, we stink, see you in April" I really need help don't I... God, its even with personal crap too. One day I can't wait for this all expenses paid trip, the next because I'm feeling crappy about things I try to back out of going.

MFS62 wrote: I wouldn't say it was the worst, but it sure made me feel funny. I was at the Ted in Atlanta (nice ballpark, BTW) and went to the counter for a beer. I got carded! Imagine, I was a few months short of my 60th birthday, and I got carded. Looking back, it actually made me feel pretty good. Then someone told me that by law, they have to card everyone. Oh well. Later I bet the vendor had just been given grief about carding (either way) before you arrived, hence he was extra-villgent. Heard some stories about a person being carded and people with the carded person made a stink about "Well why didn't you card me?" I was not carded at the Ted when I was down there, and I have been mistaken for someone in the late teens.

Game 5 2000 World Series. Oh, yeah, it only SEEMED like a Road Game... Game 2 of the aforementioned World Series. I called up a MFY fan cousin of mine that night and gave a concession message on his apartment's answering machine. He and his roomates left it up all winter.

The Seaver bit is embarrassing, but this is what you get when all of the team sites are consolidated into one mega site. The upside is the tremendous amount of content, the downside is wrong or out of date info tends to linger (lists of retired #s and such) and pretty much working on IT department work schedule. You can probably tell when MLB.com's staff has vacations, or at least graphics when transactions aren't reflected on the player's headshot for weeks, when usually the cap and uni gets photoshopped within hours, sometimes minutes of the transaction happening

http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/easlemi01.shtml BA right around .270-.313 every year, OBP and Slugging weren't terrible. All Star in 1981 Couple of top tens in Slug and OPS, pretty soild career, not exactly "Sucks against everyone and only does well against us" ala Joe McEwing vs Randy Johnson or Tommy Hutton vs Tom Seaver. Wouldn't build a team around a player like that obviously, but a good cog in the middle.

Heh, dude, the Met pitching of the era was worse than the Pirates Lumber Company of that era, so that combo... Hey it worked out, we ended up with one of them as our hitting coach!