stevejrogers

="SteveJRogers"] Of course I forget to label them: Left to right: 3 Howard Johnsons (one is running), 2 Keith Hernandez, 1 Kevin Elster 2 Gregg Jefferies, 3 Gary Carters (including a "Double" action piece with Eric Davis), 1 Bobby Bonilla, 2 Len Dykstras, 2 Kevin McReynolds, 3 Darryl Strawberry's, 1 Randy Myers, 1 David Cone, 1 Bret Saberhagen, 3 Dwight Goodens and 1 Frank Viola

Thought I'd spam here before actually making them Babules on Ebay: Pretty decent collection of 26 loose Mets from the good old days of the late 80's to early 90's. Wear and tear on the lettering portions of the older ones and a couple just can't seem to stand on their own. But in all very good shape. Again all 8 are loose, but in better shape wear and tear wise, certaintly the quality of players are better in the former grouping (Carter, Straw, Doc, Keith, HoJo, Cone, even Jefferies, Myers and Elster) but a decent grouping with Alfonzo, Alomar (one of those new McFarlane figures, the rest are Kenner/Hasbro Starting Lineups), Ordonez, Ventura, Hundley, Izzy and Hampton Selling each grouping seperate, about 50 cents a figure, so 4 bucks for the mid to late 90's guys and 13 for the 80's-90's lot. PM me if you are interested Thanks

="seawolf17"]For what it's worth, Michael Tucker doesn't have his own card, but he is Metly on this 2006 Topps Update card: Yeah I guess I COULD use it... Though I'm hoping someone will pick up the ball from The Wiz and do the next chapters in the Mega Mets Card set from 1991! If Tucker is a Met next year I'd imagine he'd get a card, ditto with Feliciano in the 2007 UD and Topps sets. And I'd imagine Royce Ring is now destined to be in the ranks of never being on a true Metly card (cards featuring him as a Tide or whatever do not count!

Edgy DC wrote: Know what's odd? Nick Capra's torso being behind the bottom of the baseball card frame and in front of the top of the frame, like he's sticking his head through a window saying "Hey Verne!" Somehow, that's just so Fleer. Same year, I want to say Paul Assenmacher's card for some reason, they have a guy looking in for the sign, but to get the bleed effect they have the guy smushed all the way to the side of the card so it looks more like a shot of an outfield wall and the pitcher just got in the shot! OE: Well it's not Assenmacher, not sure who it was now... Ah well, funny card though

metsmarathon wrote: "doc", in this case, means "doc g", the mofo handle of he whom we might know better as "sal q" and if you're new enough to not even know who sal is, then don't even worry about it. its not sal tho. there's no caustic fucktardiness. He did jump down my throat when I posted my Met HOF thingy much in the same way Bret took Val to the woodshed a year ago based on the nickname thread Hmmmmm... =

Ummm, I guess if you are a fan of the OTHER Pedro on the Mets. Was actually looking for a Feliciano as a Met card actually Hey Jay from FAFIF, you have any luck? Or a Michael Tucker as a Met card yet? And on a related topic, did Royce Ring or Heath Bell ever rate getting a Metly card?

="Edgy DC"]="SteveJRogers"]"Baseball's numbers are declining" "Yeah, but so are everyonelse's" You haven't made the former statement and I haven't responded with the latter one. So please stop making stuff up. If you're claiming now that Major League Baseball's numbers are declining, I'll ask you to document it. ]Six years old but after McGwire, Ripken and Sosa "saved the game" after the 1994 strike: http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/135820/gallup-reveals-decline-in-baseball-s-popularity GALLUP REVEALS DECLINE IN BASEBALL?S POPULARITY Thu, 27/09/2001 - 23:00 American Football | Baseball | Basketball A Gallup poll conducted just before the start of the new baseball season has revealed that only 12 percent of US respondents chose baseball as their "favourite sport to watch". This represents a 1 percent drop from last year?s figures and a 9 percent drop in popularity since 1994. However, 56 percent of respondents said they are fans of major league baseball. This group of fans approved of innovations such as inter-league play, league-championship playoffs and the inclusion of wild-card playoff teams. But 58 percent said that players? salaries were a "change for the worse? with 79 percent saying that team owners should be allowed to institute a salary cap. Only the Yankees and the Braves recorded double digit ?favourite team? status among the respondents The poll concluded that American Football (28%) was the most popular sport to watch followed by basketball (16%).

Vic Sage wrote: ]It is thought they can make more money in those sports that statement right there discredits this guy. Baseball is the only sport without a salary cap, and the high end salaries (not to mention greater length of career and relative lack of serious injuries), makes baseball a much better career choice than any other sport. While its true that black athletes have gravitated to basketball and, to a lesser extent, football, rather than baseball, that development has more to do with greater inner city access to those sports. And if your a 300 pound guy, your more likely to excel at football (or maybe as a center in basketball) than you are in baseball, which is more of a skill game than a game of pure athletic ability. baseball is a harder sport, not a less remunerative one. Fair point there. But I think the point that the guy was trying to make was more that the money is right there up front. Sure you have signing bonuses now thanks to the Van Poppels of the world, but still it takes a few years before you even get to your first million dollar payday in baseball, while in basketball and football, you have multi-millionaires signed right out of the draft. There is no floor, or minor league system, that you work your way through.

Edgy DC wrote: For the last time, I don't care how other sports are doing. More power to them, I guess, but I don't know who Chris Simms is. Other attractions expanding does not mean baseball is in decline. Then what do you want then? "Baseball's numbers are declining" "Yeah, but so are everyonelse's" "Other attractions are exanding" "Well good for them then" Look, the NBA has been in a decline for years as well, I don't see the NBA closing up it's doors and certaintly it's merchandise is selling like hotcakes as well, be it games, jerseys, DVDs, ect. I'm just saying that the "growth" of baseball is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Baseball ceased to be "The National Pastime" People in NY really can't tell you who Craig Biggio is or Todd Helton or Mike Sweeney. Does that matter? Well no, but there was a time where people in NY could tell you who a Bobby Allison was, or a Norm Cash, Jim Maloney or any of the top stars on the other teams. Hell there was a time where one really could list the entire lineups of every team. There was no need for a KTE thread in 1960, 1970 because everyone knew their enemies! And don't say "Yeah but there are more teams now" because when New Yorkers knew who Nate Colbert was, or a Mike Hegan, there were 24 teams. Sure now it's 30, but 24 different lineups, or even go back to 16 different lineups is still alot of lineups to recall no matter how you slice it

ESPN is reporting it as well, 1 year 10.5 mil http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2682818

And yes I know I did that whole countdown thread, but still, should that really be THAT big of a deal for fans?

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I'm glad Glavine is back. I think his march to 300 will be wonderful for all of us. Will this be the biggest milestone reached by a Mets player (while actually on the Mets, as opposed to Seaver's 300th?) While Pedro's 200th, Carter's 300 bomb, Delgado's 400th blast all were fun, it's not the same as a 300 win/500 homer/3,000 hit kind of thing. Funny, that sounds like a "Yankee Thing" to do. I thought we weren't the Yankees. It'd be nice to stick on the media guide cover, but really, who gives a rump what uniform the players wears with the exception of if he wears it with the team he is mostly associated with.

Not just idiots on sports radio who think this: http://www.virginia.edu/uvatoday/newsRelease.php?id=939 U.Va. Law Professor Asks, Is MLB Dropping the Ball? Oct. 30, 2006 � Fans of the St. Louis Cardinals celebrating their team�s victory in the 2006 World Series may be startled to hear G. Edward White pose a simple question: Has baseball struck out as America�s national pastime? In his 1996 book, �Creating the National Pastime: Baseball Transforms Itself, 1903-1953,� White examined the early 20th-century forces that shaped the sport. In recent years, the U.Va. law professor and baseball fan has observed developments that have damaged the game and threaten its place in American sports culture. White shared his concerns about �Baseball at the Crossroads� at a talk on Oct. 14 � the third of five �More than the Score� lectures organized by the Office of the Provost in collaboration with the U.Va. Alumni Association. The lecture series was created for alumni visiting Charlottesville for home football games on fall weekends. The talks are free and open to the public. White comes by his interest in sports honestly. He played in the outfield as an undergraduate at Amherst College. He has coached the girls� soccer team at Charlottesville High School. And he has competed in doubles squash. But baseball holds a special place in his heart. In recent years, Major League Baseball has been flashing some encouraging signs. �Ballparks are to some extent full,� White said. �Winning teams fill the stands even though ticket prices are high. TV contracts continue to be written. The labor situation is stable.� But signs of trouble have emerged as well. One of them is competition from other sports. �Most schoolchildren today are not playing baseball as they were 50 years ago, some of them are playing football or basketball instead,� White said. �When I was in high school, there were no women�s sports. Soccer, lacrosse and tennis, which are popular now, weren�t offered then.� Another issue is the nature of baseball at a time when middle-class parents worry about their children�s tender psyches. �Baseball is not an attractive sport for many young people to play because the action is centered on the pitcher and the batter,� White said. �There is little motion on the field. There is a high level of difficulty. Baseball has a hard ball. A small bat. And the fielding and hitting are not intuitive. Most young children are not good at it and so they fail and they fail publicly. �Compare that with soccer,� he said. �The kids run around on a field. They�re largely anonymous. Some of the good kids break out of the pack. But no one is stigmatized in the same way that someone is striking out with everyone watching. It�s no surprise that soccer is a reflexive sports activity that professional people introduce their children to.� The result is that with fewer families introducing their children to the game, fewer adults have played the game. This affects the popularity of baseball as entertainment for adults. �The sport is now only one among many offerings,� White said. Add to that the lack of gender diversity in the game: baseball is played primarily by boys and men. �Compare that with soccer,� White said. �Girls are capable of playing soccer at a very high level, just as they play tennis or golf at a very high level. That�s another disadvantage � there are no professional women in baseball.� Other issues have a major impact on the game�s current popularity and hold implications for its future popularity as well. �The large market franchises have more purchasing power [for players] than the smaller markets,� White said. �The question of market size is not just the population attending games in person, but also those watching the games on TV and listening to the games on the radio. The Yankees get the largest revenues from TV, not just because it�s a large metro area, but also because of the cachet of the Yankees. New England cities pick up the Yankees as part of a cable package and that adds to the team�s revenues. �So, what�s the problem?� he asked. �Free agency. Nearly all players have contracts that expire after one, two or three years. Then the player is released and goes on the free agency market. Players have learned to go on the market after a very good year. Also, they have strong incentives to negotiate the terms of the next contract in a free agency year. Free agency means that when a contract ends the large market teams can outbid the small markets teams for free agents. It�s no surprise that the Yankees contend nearly every year.� Then, there�s the �s� word. Steroids. �Baseball could not have managed an issue less well than it did steroids,� White said. Citing the 1994 baseball strike and lockout, which resulted in the cancellation of the World Series for the first time in 90 years, he said, �The owners worried that fans would not come back to baseball. It was right about then that baseball players started to hit a lot of home runs. �The physical shape of baseball players changed,� he said, pointing to players like Mark McGuire, who broke Roger Maris� single-season homerun record in 1998, and Barry Bonds, who is vying to break Hank Aaron�s career homerun mark of 755. �The number of home runs these players were hitting versus [their hitting percentages] early in their careers went up,� he said. �There were rumors about changes in their physical shapes.� But baseball as an industry did nothing. �The players union did not want testing,� White said. �The owners figured these home runs are putting people in the stands.� It got so bad that Congress held hearings, essentially telling the industry that if they didn�t do anything, Congress would impose legislation. So, the question is, what will baseball do? The answer is, it�s still not clear. �If you want to invalidate steroids records, how do you do that?� White asked. �The steroid problem is embarrassing for baseball and it is largely insoluble.� Yet another issue confronting the sport is its changing racial and ethnic composition. From the late 1940s to the mid-1970s, increasing numbers of African-American players appeared in the game. But beginning in the 1970s, those numbers began to fall and the number of Latinos began to rise. �The increase in Latinos is simply a result of baseball recruiting worldwide, particularly in Latin America,� White said. �These players, many coming from poor countries, have strong economic incentives to sign up at an early age. And the teams take their chances and sign these young players for relatively little money. That�s a nice part of the story of baseball � it�s more inclusive than it used to be and it�s more inclusive of Latin Americans than it used to be. But why have the number of African-American players declined? �There is competition from other sports for African-American players,� White said. �Football and basketball are more attractive to them. While the number of white players on NBA rosters and NFL rosters is very small, African Americans are flocking to those sports, dominating them. It is thought they can make more money in those sports.� The pity is that in recent years, baseball has tried to show it cares about African-American players. �[Major League Baseball] retired Jackie Robinson�s number (42) and they�ve been doing better recently in recruiting African-American managers,� White said. �But baseball is not doing a good job of selling itself to African-American males as a sport. And it is losing out on good athletes. And as a result the sport is not as representative of American society as it was.� Each of these issues is troublesome for the future of the sport. In his 1996 book, White predicted that the position of baseball in American sports would decline in the coming decades. Nothing he has seen since has changed his mind. �Baseball has been behind the curve,� White said. �It needs to be more ahead of the curve.� It�s as if the sport itself is in the bottom of the ninth inning, down by three, and the bottom of the lineup is coming up to bat. The odds are long, but in baseball, �it ain�t over �til it�s over.�

Six years old but after McGwire, Ripken and Sosa "saved the game" after the 1994 strike: http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/135820/gallup-reveals-decline-in-baseball-s-popularity GALLUP REVEALS DECLINE IN BASEBALL?S POPULARITY Thu, 27/09/2001 - 23:00 American Football | Baseball | Basketball A Gallup poll conducted just before the start of the new baseball season has revealed that only 12 percent of US respondents chose baseball as their "favourite sport to watch". This represents a 1 percent drop from last year?s figures and a 9 percent drop in popularity since 1994. However, 56 percent of respondents said they are fans of major league baseball. This group of fans approved of innovations such as inter-league play, league-championship playoffs and the inclusion of wild-card playoff teams. But 58 percent said that players? salaries were a "change for the worse? with 79 percent saying that team owners should be allowed to institute a salary cap. Only the Yankees and the Braves recorded double digit ?favourite team? status among the respondents The poll concluded that American Football (28%) was the most popular sport to watch followed by basketball (16%).

http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_do_professional_sports_in_the_US_rank_in_popularity

From http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/09/05/8271412/index.htm ]This, race fans, is the new world of NASCAR, the fastest-growing, best-run sports business in America--with the emphasis on business. Once the province of moonshine runners and good ol' boys, the sport has courted corporate America for decades. But NASCAR's recent explosion in popularity--and the establishment of its racetracks as big-time commercial venues--is unprecedented. Stock-car racing is now a multibillion-dollar industry. The second-most-watched sport on television behind pro football, NASCAR has seen its ratings increase by more than 50% since it inked a six-year, $2.4 billion network deal five years ago. The sport is on pace this year for its highest TV viewership ever; the last time a major professional sport set a new high was the NFL in 1981. Licensed retail sales of NASCAR-branded products have increased 250% over the past decade, totaling $2.1 billion last year alone (up from $1.3 billion in 2000). Nascar.com is one of the most highly trafficked sports websites. The NASCAR name is so hot that market research firm PSB picked it as the country's No. 2 brand for 2005, ahead of both Google and iPod (BlackBerry was No. 1).

Edgy DC wrote: ]FACT. Baseball has been declining for years. Please define your terms or stop making this claim. Christ, Steve, baseball isn't going to be cancelled because of lack of viewer interest. Um, Fact. Neither is the NHL, but then again notice how the national games are pretty much a dinosaur? It's all pretty regionalized. We pretty much won't see anymore of the "Ryne Sandberg Game" in Chicago 1984 when he hit the two homers of Sutter in an NBC "Game of The Week"

sharpie wrote: ]The NFL's place is very secure, and try talking October baseball in SEC country. Or in Southern California, Texas, Nebraska, Columbus, Ann Arbor or and other place were College Football is King. I bet it was pretty easy to talk Tiger baseball this past October. Those games looked like sellouts to me. Also, I've spent many hours talking October baseball in Southern California. Other than alumni, no one I know ever talks about college football there. This is a moronic argument. College football is played once a week at (mostly) a different time of the year from baseball. In places where there is a big college and no baseball team (such as Nebraska), of course that is the focus. Oh really, then why does ESPN cover college football practices in the Spring and Summer? Why did I once hear Chris Simms back in his college days be interviewed in MID JULY? Why does ESPN run it's "In The Huddle" NFL radio show every week, all year? Clearly there is a national desire for both pro and college football talk year round, you don't really get that with baseball except New York and Boston

Edgy DC wrote: ]That means baseball is on a decline, hence the imminent threats and the fact that baseball will never touch those that are ahead. By what terms? You've established none of this. NASCAR and Golf are the fastest growing sports in terms of TV audience in the country. FACT. Baseball has been declining for years. Football is the unquestioned king, either pro or college. Baseball is in a decline, there really isn't much in the way of disputing that. TV viewership is down, and if you want to use attendance, if you take out the two NY teams, Boston, Chicago and St Louis, you'll find that baseball really hasn't "returned" the way it is projected. ]And why should I care? Do Americans suddenly not have enough discretionary income to blow on more than one piece of shit? The size of the landfills tells me no. No I suppose in the grand scheme you don't have to. Same way hockey fans don't care that they are the "Little Sport That Could" right now, same way fans of a low rated TV show fight bitterly for their show to survive another season despite objections from it's network. If you like something then yeah the lack of popularity shouldn't be a concern. I'm just saying you can't say Selig's reign has seen "enormous spikes in the popularity and profitability" when the success is essentially smoke and mirrors.

Edgy DC wrote: I can't work out the meaning of that last paragraph. Mets are in a Wild Card hunt all September after making a "White Flag" trade before the 7/31 deadline, even to the point where they might JUST be able to sniff blood coming from the NL East frontrunner, but lose out on the very, VERY last day of the season, plus have Beltran or Wright just have a MONSTER end the season with MVP talk. Yeah, you bet the Giants, Jets and pre-season Knicks, Rangers, Devils, Nets and Islanders are taking backseats. Not so much in Philly.

Edgy DC wrote: I like the part where those attractions he defines as ahead of baseball will never be supplanted, but those behind baseball are an imminent threat. That means baseball is on a decline, hence the imminent threats and the fact that baseball will never touch those that are ahead. The NFL's place is very secure, and try talking October baseball in SEC country. Or in Southern California, Texas, Nebraska, Columbus, Ann Arbor or and other place were College Football is King. I can see MLB easily being in the lower portion of the Top 10, even the Top 20 in sporting attraction within the next 5 to 10 years.

metsmarathon wrote: going back to 1986, the only time the phillies had a higher attendance than they had in the past two years was when they won the division, and came oh so close to winning it all. in fact, in the 8 years i just looked at, they averaged maybe less than 2 million, and in the past two years, its been more like 2.7 million. attendance-wise, they seem to be doing rather fine. Okay, then tell me why with the Phillies, and the eventual MVP, were in the throes of a wild card race, and even had a sliver of hope of the Mets pulling a Cardinal-esque meltdown (they did of course, but the Phillies were too far back) the talk on WIP and the other station down there, and the newspapers were all focusing on the Eagles, and even the Sixers and Flyers? Situation was reversed, it'd be all Mets all the time here in New York, not in Philly.

Johnny Dickshot wrote: To be fair, Bud's other legacies will be enormous spikes in the popularity and profitability of the game that enriched all its participants but the fans. Not to go down the "Baseball is dying" path again, but not sure if you really can call growth in the New England/New York corridor, St Louis and Chicago a true enormous spike in popularity. Baseball will NEVER supplant COLLEGE football (never mind the NFL) in the South and West, Golf (both PGA and LPGA) and NASCAR really are breathing down baseball's neck, and a strong case can be made that both college and pro hoops have long supplanted baseball as the second biggest sport in the country. Fans still haven't come back from 1994, and it's at a point where I really don't think they will return, even in places like Philly (and the Phillies have had a few seasons, especially the last two where they were battling until the final week of the season) and KC. It's more like Selig didn't have the sport completely implode on his watch, not "enormous spikes in the popularity" The profitability I'll give you somewhat, but that is more baseball joining trends with the other major sports. Throw back apparel, internet services including audio and video content, satellite radio and the MLB Extra Innings package on DirecTV and other providers, MLB certainly isn't a trailblazer in any of those areas, it's more "Oh well they are doing it, why don't we?"

metirish wrote: Is Jeter really the best baseball player of his generation to never win an MVP?.....Piazza anyone... ManRam also comes to mind in Jeter's own LEAGUE!

Edgy DC wrote: Fan-voted awards are silly things. Period. Did the editors mean "medal" when they wrote "metal" or is "metal" some sort of collective noun for awards? I'm guessing it's a euphemism for Hardware.