stevejrogers

="metirish":oukyvq09]Well that is good news....[/quote:oukyvq09] I wouldn't be so sure. Given the Mets medical staff history, and the importance of that arm, I would go through the motions of an MRI just to be on the safe side. Better err on the side of caution than have Santana's arm fall blow out on Opening Day. Vic Sage Mar 02 2009 08:54 AM Apparently, Dr. Altcheck is going down to florida this week to check on Santana. The mountain is coming to Mohammed. Frayed Knot Mar 02 2009 09:05 AM ="SteveJRogers":1nac43oz]I wouldn't be so sure. Given the Mets medical staff history ... [/quote:1nac43oz] And what history is that? SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 09:08 AM Mo Vaughn, Ryan Church, Billy Wagner, John Maine, etc. This crack staff would give someone a day-to-day diagnosis for a brain tumor! Frayed Knot Mar 02 2009 09:10 AM So it's the medical staff fault that those players got hurt? If so I think we should fire the entire medical team and hire the staff from one of the teams without injuries. Remind me who those are again? Benjamin Grimm Mar 02 2009 09:11 AM Ryan Church's concussion seems to be the one thing that's been truly botched in recent years. But saying someone is day-to-day doesn't mean the medical staff is a bunch of boobs; it could mean that they're not too hasty to make a panicky diagnosis. I'd want to pause and make sure too before consigning somebody to surgery or the 60-day DL. SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 09:27 AM ="Frayed Knot":o41s9oyl]So it's the medical staff fault that those players got hurt? If so I think we should fire the entire medical team and hire the staff from one of the teams without injuries. Remind me who those are again?[/quote:o41s9oyl] So, how much does Fredo pay you? No, it is not the Mets training and medical staff's fault that injuries happen, it is the staff's fault for the misdiagnosises, the lack of desire to give proper care and treatment just to get the players back on the field and the general sense that they really are a bunch of quacks. SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 09:30 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":7pulkn2q]Ryan Church's concussion seems to be the one thing that's been truly botched in recent years. But saying someone is day-to-day doesn't mean the medical staff is a bunch of boobs; it could mean that they're not too hasty to make a panicky diagnosis. I'd want to pause and make sure too before consigning somebody to surgery or the 60-day DL.[/quote:7pulkn2q] Considering this team goes from an 85-90 win team to a 75-80 win team without Santana, yeah I would understand a panicky diagnosis and getting him into an MRI. Again, better be safe than have him blow out his arm in April and losing him for more than just 2009. Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 09:35 AM And naturally, if he hurts himself, it'll be directly connected to his not getting an MRI this weekend. TransMonk Mar 02 2009 09:45 AM They call medicine a "practice" for a reason. I was walking to work a month ago and got a severe headache, tightness in my throat, dizziness and loss of balance. I got rushed to the hospital and they said my symptoms indicated I had a small stroke. But after a spinal tap, CT scan and multiple MRIs they could not find anything showing any blockage...in other words, no stroke. I've now visited different doctors (pulminologist, neurologist, physical therapist, opthomologist) 2-3 times per week for the past month and they're still not sure what's wrong. The initial diagnosis was an inner-ear virus, then I was diagnosed with Sarcoidosis, which is a problem, but seemingly unrealated. After a month, I'm still only at about 80% with my balance and I have abnormal sensation ability on the left half of my body. I really have no idea if it will start to get better tomorrow or if I'll be this way the rest of my life. I'm well enough to perform daily activities, but I'm not running or exercising at all. I have another MRI scheduled for Wednesday (but I don't have to travel to New York). I feel like I'm guessing Church did last year. I could not even play catch with a buddy right now, but I'm not giving up hope that I couldn't at this time next week. I'd call my self day-to-day, and would not want to be put on the 60 day DL. I don't know if these or any doctors could be called quacks, it's just that the body is a very complex thing that differs greatly from person to person. Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 09:47 AM Perspective. Get well, Monk. Benjamin Grimm Mar 02 2009 09:48 AM Geez, Monk, I hope you feel better soon. Your account reads like an episode of House. TransMonk Mar 02 2009 09:56 AM Thanks guys. I've never watched House, but I've had many, many people say that. I was hoping to at least get a rare disease named after me. Kong76 Mar 02 2009 10:36 AM Speedy health, Tmonk. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 02 2009 10:38 AM Yeah, hope you're feeling better soon. Gotta be tough to be troubled by unexplainable stuff. Rockin' Doc Mar 02 2009 10:40 AM I hope you get feeling better soon. themetfairy Mar 02 2009 10:47 AM Feel better TMonk! Benjamin Grimm Mar 02 2009 10:52 AM Kind of selfish, though, how TransMonk has hijacked Johan Santana's thread. Have some respect for the guy with the $137 million contract! Gwreck Mar 02 2009 10:53 AM Best wishes for speedy recovery. TransMonk Mar 02 2009 11:02 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":10s8n325]Kind of selfish, though, how TransMonk has hijacked Johan Santana's thread. Have some respect for the guy with the $137 million contract![/quote:10s8n325] HA! The jist was really the first and last sentences of the post. And that I recently have a little more respect for Church and his health problems last year...and for any injured athlete for that matter. My job doesn't depend on me being fully-functional physically. I can't imagine being in my condition and being a pro-athlete with money, passion and fan opinion on the line. MFS62 Mar 02 2009 11:05 AM Hope they find out what it is and cure it soon, Monk. And we hope its something they've seen before, not something new that they have to name after you. Later Centerfield Mar 02 2009 11:10 AM Whatever. Pop a couple of Advil and walk it off. Like you ever use your lower left-side anyway. I'm kidding. Perhaps in bad taste. Feel better soon. It is incredibly frustrating when all the doctors in the world seem unable to pinpoint a problem. Here's to hoping they figure it out (and cure it) soon. metirish Mar 02 2009 11:20 AM Rub some dirt on it for fecks sake Monk..... Seriously it made for somber reading..I thought at first you were taking the piss then I was hoping you were...get well .. themetfairy Mar 02 2009 11:23 AM D-Dad had a bad case of vertigo about five years ago. Not as debilitating or long-lasting as TMonk's, but frustrating as hell. These things can be weird - sometimes they just run their course without explanation. Hopefully this will be out of your system soon. Frayed Knot Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM ="SteveJRogers"]So, how much does Fredo pay you? OK, I give up. Who the hell is Fredo? ]No, it is not the Mets training and medical staff's fault that injuries happen, it is the staff's fault for the misdiagnosises, the lack of desire to give proper care and treatment just to get the players back on the field and the general sense that they really are a bunch of quacks. If you're going to label "quacks" whenever an exact diagnosis and return date isn't nailed down within 24 hours of an injury then you're never going to be happy with any medical staff and instead are going to sound like one of those idiot fans who wonders why only his closer blows games. And I'm not even going to ask you where you came up with "lack of desire to give proper care and treatment". LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:12 PM ="Frayed Knot":dd6jvwzq]="SteveJRogers":dd6jvwzq]So, how much does Fredo pay you?[/quote:dd6jvwzq] OK, I give up. Who the hell is Fredo?[/quote:dd6jvwzq] Fred? Jeff? (As in, the incompetent son?) Special Medical Adviser to the New York Mets, Zombie John Cazale? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 02:14 PM ="SteveJRogers":3ed1rmeg]="Frayed Knot":3ed1rmeg]So it's the medical staff fault that those players got hurt? If so I think we should fire the entire medical team and hire the staff from one of the teams without injuries. Remind me who those are again?[/quote:3ed1rmeg] So, how much does Fredo pay you? No, it is not the Mets training and medical staff's fault that injuries happen, it is the staff's fault for the misdiagnosises, the lack of desire to give proper care and treatment just to get the players back on the field and the general sense that they really are a bunch of quacks.[/quote:3ed1rmeg] And all these guys were misdiagnoses (or "misdiagnosises")? You know that the medical staff has been turned over since Mo Vaughn's day, right? Twice, I think. Steve, are you gunning for Davidoff's job or something. Kong76 Mar 02 2009 02:16 PM SJR: No, it is not the Mets training and medical staff's fault that injuries happen, it is the staff's fault for the misdiagnosises, the lack of desire to give proper care and treatment just to get the players back on the field and the general sense that they really are a bunch of quacks <<< You've out done yourself. Again. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:59 PM Relatively new here. Is it silly to ask what SJR's "deal" is, generally speaking? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 03:02 PM No. It may be silly to expect to understand the answer, however. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 03:07 PM ="Edgy DC"]No. It may be silly to expect to understand the answer, however. All those times there was one set of footprints... SJR was carrying me? TransMonk Mar 02 2009 03:08 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] All those times there was one set of footprints... SJR was carrying me? Bullet of cool! SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 03:56 PM ="Frayed Knot"] OK, I give up. Who the hell is Fredo? Wilpon. ] If you're going to label "quacks" whenever an exact diagnosis and return date isn't nailed down within 24 hours of an injury then you're never going to be happy with any medical staff and instead are going to sound like one of those idiot fans who wonders why only his closer blows games. And I'm not even going to ask you where you came up with "lack of desire to give proper care and treatment". Okay, fine I'll give you that point. But at the end of the day, this staff is still very cloak and dagger on just about every single medical issue. Is player A okay to play? He's day-to-day. Okay, but he's been out for a week, shouldn't someone look at him? Nah, he is day-to-day, we are going with his word. And it especially looks worse right now when Dan Warthen apparently was under the impression that Santana WAS gearing up for the WBC, when it was decided about a month ago that Santana was NOT going to be pitching in the WBC. metirish Mar 02 2009 04:11 PM Really though are the Mets any different that any other organization in regards to medical reports? I would say NHL teams are the most notorious of the "day to day" injury reports. SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 04:30 PM ="metirish":dalf2wz3]Really though are the Mets any different that any other organization in regards to medical reports? I would say NHL teams are the most notorious of the "day to day" injury reports.[/quote:dalf2wz3] NFL is worse though. Because they have to list the injury list every week. Great example, every week for a couple of years the Pats listed Tom Brady on the injury list, probably at the least severe level, with an arm situation. This was done as to not "tip" off the opposition or some nonsense. I hear you though, it is just that the Mets, and other teams do seem to treat the fans and the media like idiots with the way they handle injury situations. Maybe I'm being too harsh on the medical staff here, fine, then maybe it is the PR staff, maybe it's Omar, I don't know then, but there is something rather infuriating with the way the Mets handle injury situations. Kong76 Mar 02 2009 04:36 PM SJR: But at the end of the day, this staff is still very cloak and dagger on just about every single medical issue <<< Keep diggin Stevers, name one team in Major League Baseball that does better when it comes to reporting actual news on what's going on with high profile franchise players. Name one team that does it 20% better and provide insight into how you ac- tually know what you're talking about. Name one team that does it 10% better if you can't do that. Cloak and dagger??? Sheesh. Frayed Knot Mar 02 2009 04:47 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 02 2009 05:32 PM ="SteveJRogers"]Wilpon. So if I don't trash the medical staff I must be some kind of Wilpon suck-up? I think you want to re-think that one. "Okay, fine I'll give you that point." You mean the point about the medical staff not wanting injuries to linger and hurt the club? -- Very big of you. " But at the end of the day, this staff is still very cloak and dagger on just about every single medical issue." 'Cloak and Dagger'? You mean if a player gets hurt during a game it's some kind of conspiracy of silence unless they have the complete diagnosis and exact return date by the morning papers? Medicine doesn't work that way Steve-O and things like waiting for swelling to go down of seeing if a problem will heal on its own are often proper procedures not examples of malpractice. "Is player A okay to play? -- He's day-to-day. Okay, but he's been out for a week, shouldn't someone look at him? Nah, he is day-to-day, we are going with his word." As Vince Scully says, 'Aren't we all?' (day-to-day) Again, see the point above about medical science not running on the same schedule as beat reporters or stupid fans who are too pissed off to think straight and therefore spout off on topics they know nothing about because they think it makes them sound superior. The only thing worse is listening to those idiots and the repeating what they say as if gospel. "And it especially looks worse right now when Dan Warthen apparently was under the impression that Santana WAS gearing up for the WBC, when it was decided about a month ago that Santana was NOT going to be pitching in the WBC." Something which has nothing to do with the medical staff. Rockin' Doc Mar 02 2009 05:16 PM LWFS - "Relatively new here. Is it silly to ask what SJR's "deal" is, generally speaking? I have a theory that Steve may be a distant relative of King Nebuchednezzar. Of course, I could be wrong. SteveJRogers Mar 02 2009 05:25 PM ="Frayed Knot"]="SteveJRogers"]Wilpon.] So if I don't trash the medical staff I must be some kind of Wilpon suck-up? I think you want to re-think that one. No, you seem to stick up for the Met organization and players quite often, to the point where yeah, you do sound like a Kool Aid drinking Met fan. metirish Mar 02 2009 05:31 PM Steve you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that jibe at FK. A thread about one of the games best pictures has turned into a SJR thread , happens far too often. Frayed Knot Mar 02 2009 05:38 PM Do you really think I stick up for the Wilpons irrationally or have you gotten to the point where you're simply labeling anyone who doesn't trash them incessantly as a suck-up because you think that puts you in with the in crowd? Either way, if you want to find examples where you think I did so we can debate the specific topic(s) individually, but don't make blanket statements about my opinions that you can't back up -- like the one that started this discussion for instance. Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 06:09 PM Does Wilpon even serve Kool-Aid anymore? Because I'm really thirsty and I think I'm entitled to some. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 06:55 PM If said Kool-Aid is cherry- and/or mango-flavored, and it will knock me unconscious for the last two weeks of October, I will drink this Kool-Aid. Benjamin Grimm Mar 02 2009 06:56 PM ="metirish":1tgpntg3]happens far too often.[/quote:1tgpntg3] Yep. It's tiresome. Clueless Koolaid Guzzler Mar 02 2009 07:15 PM ="SteveJRogers":1qlt4bm3] No, you seem to stick up for the Met organization and players quite often, to the point where yeah, you do sound like a Kool Aid drinking Met fan.[/quote:1qlt4bm3] hey! you say that like it's a bad thing. metirish Mar 03 2009 07:28 PM ] Mets' Santana won't be ready for Opening Day BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 4:50 PM EST, March 3, 2009 The Mets finally came to terms Tuesday with the reality that Johan Santana is not going to be their Opening Day starter for April 6 in Cincinnati. Santana will have another bullpen session tomorrow morning, but the delay caused by the tightness in his left elbow is going to push him back to the fifth turn of that first week, which is Saturday, April 11, in Florida. Pitching coach Dan Warthen explained that Santana is not likely to get into a Grapefruit League game until March 18. That pretty much wipes out any chance of him being ready for Opening Day. Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2009 08:28 PM April 11 is no tragedy. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 03 2009 08:37 PM May 1 is no tragedy neither. Edgy DC Mar 03 2009 08:50 PM Tomorrow's scapegoating articles can just write themselves. That's a little tragic. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 03 2009 10:57 PM How is this at 20/20 update status on the 'FAN? (He asks rhetorically... since it is.) 86-Dreamer Mar 04 2009 01:11 PM Johan had a strong bullpen today and now says he is still shooting for Opening Day: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3950758 MFS62 Mar 04 2009 01:21 PM ="86-Dreamer":2c4tjkyk]Johan had a strong bullpen today and now says he is still shooting for Opening Day: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3950758[/quote:2c4tjkyk] I don't like it when my emotions are toyed with. Later Frayed Knot Mar 10 2009 06:43 AM Well they're about to be toyed with again because Johan says he's feeling good and aiming for Opening Day (a phrase that should always be capitalized, btw). He used all his pitches in yesterday's throwing session and is scheduled for a Thursday start. So the thousands of trees and E-trees that were killed in order to make room for the multitude of columns and blogs detailing the dire consequences and medical malpractice in connection with Santana's left wing turned out to have given their lives in vain all over a soreness which required that miracle of modern medicine ... a 3-day break. themetfairy Mar 10 2009 06:45 AM Either that, or that liniment really works! metirish Mar 17 2009 12:18 PM Great news. ] Mets' Santana throws four innings without incident BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 1:41 PM EDT, March 17, 2009 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - More than any one pitch, the best indication of Johan Santana's mindset as he prepares for Opening Day came during the second inning of Tuesday's minor-league game on Field 7. Santana was so sure he had Scott Grimes struck out on a changeup in the dirt that he stormed off the back of the mound to argue with the umpire behind him. That's right. Scott Grimes, who was playing for the Worcester Tornadoes last season. Santana buried a changeup, and Grimes -- not used to that kind of pitch in the Can-Am League -- clearly did not check his swing. Which is why Santana was annoyed. "Oh yeah, this is a game," Santana said. "You have to do whatever it takes to even win that game and get ready. Because that's the thing, when Opening Day comes, there's not going to be any practice. You've got to be ready. "So that's what we're trying to do now, focus on throwing all of the pitches, on controlling the strike zone and throwing changeups and sliders. I think we're pretty good. We're on the right track." The irritated Santana finished off Grimes with a fastball that he missed for strike three -- no discussion there -- and completed his four-inning stint without incident. Overall, Santana allowed six hits and two earned runs, with five strikeouts and no walks. He threw 56 pitches, 40 for strikes, and his fastball stayed in the 87-89 mph range. With three more starts to go, Santana figures to build up more arm strength and the velocity should increase as well over the next three weeks. "We're still working," Santana said. "I don't work by percentages or anything, but I think we still have some room to improve and to get better and that's what we're focused on right now."

Haven't been there, but check out the Reds HOF and museum.

Newday is reporting that he is out indefinitely! http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/blog/2009/02/johan_santana_out_indefinitely.html ]Johan Santana met with GM Omar Minaya and manager Jerry Manuel for 40 minutes this morning about the best way to handle his elbow tightness. The bottom line is that Santana is officially in limbo and his Opening Day start (April 6) could be in jeopardy as well. Here's the plan for now: Santana will throw a light bullpen session on Sunday to see how the elbow responds, and if he feels OK the following day, he still will need another two or three live BP sessions before he can make a Graperfuit League start. That means if everything goes perfectly -- perfectly -- he could actually face another team at some point during the week of March 9. As for the worst-case scenario, Santana throws on Sunday, still feels the elbow and the Mets finally decide to send him back to New York for tests. Santana said minutes ago that the elbow still is tight -- he's been told it's the triceps tendon behind the elbow -- and he is considering the possibility that Opening Day might now be questionable for him. "We have 162 games," Santana said. "What we have to accomplish takes 162 games. Everything starts April 6, if it's going to be me or somebody else. It's tough to say right now."

="G-Fafif"]Cascarino's held court in the mid-'00s, giving away to the abysmal Sbarro's in 2007 and 2008. Pizza at Shea hasn't been any good since the personal pizzas of the early '80s disappeared. Hey don't knock the favorite "New York Style" pizza of Dunder Mifflin's Michael Scott (The Office)!

="soupcan"]Before the game. Make an evening of it. Dinner rezzies at 6:00, linger and watch the first inning or so through the windas then amble your bloated self down to your seats. Well at Shea you had a couple of reasons for this. 1) The Grill Room was directly behind the press box. Would have been neat if they created a window so fans could see the press doing their jobs, but it would have been brutal to try to follow the game on anything other than the TV monitors around the bar and the restaurant. It had a nice sports bar feel going, at least for the 10 years I was kind of a "regular" there! The Diamond Club itself did have a panoramic window, but the sightlines for watching it from the restaurant were not the best. Had a nice ritzy restaurant feel.

From what I gather it is a Citigroup issue. They wanted a version of their Citi Field logo to be the uniform logo, so the caps and other merchandise will get the patch that isn't an Epic Fail.

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users.

="MFS62":1u6ynk3p]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1u6ynk3p] Bullet of Cool nominee. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:36 PM ]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Centerfield Feb 18 2009 07:58 AM ="MFS62":1yup58la]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1yup58la] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez. Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2009 08:10 AM I remember, in the 1976-77 offseason, actually thinking the Mets might sign Reggie Jackson. How na�ve I was! Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 18 2009 11:19 AM ="Centerfield":izn8lv6l]="MFS62":izn8lv6l]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:izn8lv6l] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez.[/quote:izn8lv6l] Or, if you want to split hairs, Barry Bonds in 93. SteveJRogers Feb 18 2009 04:19 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users. Kong76 Feb 18 2009 05:23 PM What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 18 2009 06:37 PM ="Kong76"]What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... Heh. Baby Rey + Season of Primabolin cycles = 500 Hardest-hit 1-3 groundouts in ML history

="Edgy DC":23rudtqg]I'd rather they asked that at football camps.[/quote:23rudtqg] They are tested all the time and much, much stringent than baseball. And they have been suspending players. End of issue. Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 10:17 AM The NFL is clean? metirish Feb 17 2009 10:21 AM Steve Rogers Goodell

="metsmarathon":5gy7w2om]honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al.[/quote:5gy7w2om] I'll give you that. But I'm talking about how big of a PR hit it would be for the Mets. I mean they can't even get the naming rights on the stadium done without some controversy brewing and every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official blasting the Mets for not even changing the name to "Tax Payer Field" or breaking the contract. The Mets have had PR nightmare after PR nightmare for so long now, something like being the team that signed ARod and having him claim that it was during that team's tenure that he did the roids (yeaa right of course) would be yet another reason to wonder when the franchise will ever shake its joke label that has been on it since 1987. Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 10:14 AM "Every" is a ridiculous word to pull out --- "every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official." Por favor. Haters can suck it. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:23 AM The funny thing about the original ARod signing is that while most suspect the infamous Steve Phillips pronouncement of "24 and 1" was code for "we don't want to pay the money", not only did it turn out to be pretty damn accurate but the contract the Mets turned away from turned out to be too rich for the team who signed it; was only accepted in trade upon a huge discount; and then only extended at similar rates due to the anticipation of smashing career records which now is put in jeopardy because of his whole "24 and 1" attitude. Irony can be so ironic at times. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:39 AM And as they get ready to do the big ARod press conference it's official ... the team has set Alex up with his own tent. smg58 Feb 17 2009 01:35 PM What bugs me about the fallout from not signing A-Rod way back when is that when Phillips claims that Scott Boras made an unreasonable list of demands -- which is perfectly consistent with what we know about Boras -- all the beat writers assume he is full of it, but when Cashman suggests that Boras offered Beltran to the Yankees at a discount -- which is completely inconsistent with what we know about Boras -- these same writers take him at his word. Following up on what FK said, I think there's a good chance we would have had to do what Texas ultimately did, only it would have been particularly humiliating to us. That being said, I have to vote for Zito as the best free agent non-signing. A-Rod rubbed me wrong then as much as he does now, but at least his on-field performance would have approached what we paid him to do. MFS62 Feb 17 2009 04:33 PM Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:13 PM ="MFS62":1u6ynk3p]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1u6ynk3p] Bullet of Cool nominee. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:36 PM ]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Centerfield Feb 18 2009 07:58 AM ="MFS62":1yup58la]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1yup58la] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez. Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2009 08:10 AM I remember, in the 1976-77 offseason, actually thinking the Mets might sign Reggie Jackson. How na�ve I was! Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 18 2009 11:19 AM ="Centerfield":izn8lv6l]="MFS62":izn8lv6l]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:izn8lv6l] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez.[/quote:izn8lv6l] Or, if you want to split hairs, Barry Bonds in 93. SteveJRogers Feb 18 2009 04:19 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users. Kong76 Feb 18 2009 05:23 PM What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 18 2009 06:37 PM ="Kong76"]What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... Heh. Baby Rey + Season of Primabolin cycles = 500 Hardest-hit 1-3 groundouts in ML history

Look, all I was saying with the steriods is that the Mets dodged one big bullet with not having AFraud on their watch. Sure that sounds naive, and as I said Piazza's name is probably on that list, but in terms of what this thread is, the Mets look better for not getting Mr. 24 and 1, and therefore exscape the scorn of having a mega cheater on their roster as a major free agent signing.

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1gwkibti]="SteveJRogers":1gwkibti] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract.[/quote:1gwkibti] If you ever rooted for Mikey Piazza (or, hell, Todd Hundley, or {as-yet-unnamed Met member of the 103}), I would advise you to tread a bit lightly in how you denigrate A-Rod, sirrah, lest you get pulled over by the hypocrisy police. (Not that you shouldn't denigrate A-Rod, mind you... you just might want to be more careful about exactly HOW.)[/quote:1gwkibti] I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:17 AM Look, all I was saying with the steriods is that the Mets dodged one big bullet with not having AFraud on their watch. Sure that sounds naive, and as I said Piazza's name is probably on that list, but in terms of what this thread is, the Mets look better for not getting Mr. 24 and 1, and therefore exscape the scorn of having a mega cheater on their roster as a major free agent signing. batmagadanleadoff Feb 17 2009 07:30 AM Tis better to have cheated and lost than never to have cheated at all. metsmarathon Feb 17 2009 07:58 AM honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 10:06 AM ="metsmarathon":5gy7w2om]honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al.[/quote:5gy7w2om] I'll give you that. But I'm talking about how big of a PR hit it would be for the Mets. I mean they can't even get the naming rights on the stadium done without some controversy brewing and every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official blasting the Mets for not even changing the name to "Tax Payer Field" or breaking the contract. The Mets have had PR nightmare after PR nightmare for so long now, something like being the team that signed ARod and having him claim that it was during that team's tenure that he did the roids (yeaa right of course) would be yet another reason to wonder when the franchise will ever shake its joke label that has been on it since 1987. Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 10:14 AM "Every" is a ridiculous word to pull out --- "every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official." Por favor. Haters can suck it. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:23 AM The funny thing about the original ARod signing is that while most suspect the infamous Steve Phillips pronouncement of "24 and 1" was code for "we don't want to pay the money", not only did it turn out to be pretty damn accurate but the contract the Mets turned away from turned out to be too rich for the team who signed it; was only accepted in trade upon a huge discount; and then only extended at similar rates due to the anticipation of smashing career records which now is put in jeopardy because of his whole "24 and 1" attitude. Irony can be so ironic at times. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:39 AM And as they get ready to do the big ARod press conference it's official ... the team has set Alex up with his own tent. smg58 Feb 17 2009 01:35 PM What bugs me about the fallout from not signing A-Rod way back when is that when Phillips claims that Scott Boras made an unreasonable list of demands -- which is perfectly consistent with what we know about Boras -- all the beat writers assume he is full of it, but when Cashman suggests that Boras offered Beltran to the Yankees at a discount -- which is completely inconsistent with what we know about Boras -- these same writers take him at his word. Following up on what FK said, I think there's a good chance we would have had to do what Texas ultimately did, only it would have been particularly humiliating to us. That being said, I have to vote for Zito as the best free agent non-signing. A-Rod rubbed me wrong then as much as he does now, but at least his on-field performance would have approached what we paid him to do. MFS62 Feb 17 2009 04:33 PM Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:13 PM ="MFS62":1u6ynk3p]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1u6ynk3p] Bullet of Cool nominee. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:36 PM ]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Centerfield Feb 18 2009 07:58 AM ="MFS62":1yup58la]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1yup58la] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez. Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2009 08:10 AM I remember, in the 1976-77 offseason, actually thinking the Mets might sign Reggie Jackson. How na�ve I was! Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 18 2009 11:19 AM ="Centerfield":izn8lv6l]="MFS62":izn8lv6l]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:izn8lv6l] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez.[/quote:izn8lv6l] Or, if you want to split hairs, Barry Bonds in 93. SteveJRogers Feb 18 2009 04:19 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users. Kong76 Feb 18 2009 05:23 PM What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 18 2009 06:37 PM ="Kong76"]What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... Heh. Baby Rey + Season of Primabolin cycles = 500 Hardest-hit 1-3 groundouts in ML history

Hampton is joined by Ray Knight in the list of Best Free Agents The Mets Didn't Bring Back. Also Edgardo Alfonzo, and Al Leiter.

="Edgy DC":1h4grzv1]The idea that it's good that the Mets didn't sign Alex Rodriguez, because fans would abuse him over his alleged non-clutchness, is such a defeatest argument that I need to tear all my hair out. There, now I am completely bald. Also, the ten minute thing is in Hell, and beyond saving.[/quote:1h4grzv1] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract. SteveJRogers Feb 16 2009 08:15 PM Hampton is joined by Ray Knight in the list of Best Free Agents The Mets Didn't Bring Back. Also Edgardo Alfonzo, and Al Leiter. Edgy DC Feb 16 2009 09:29 PM This is getting stupid ugly fast. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 16 2009 10:59 PM ="SteveJRogers":10f809cw] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract.[/quote:10f809cw] If you ever rooted for Mikey Piazza (or, hell, Todd Hundley, or {as-yet-unnamed Met member of the 103}), I would advise you to tread a bit lightly in how you denigrate A-Rod, sirrah, lest you get pulled over by the hypocrisy police. (Not that you shouldn't denigrate A-Rod, mind you... you just might want to be more careful about exactly HOW.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 05:46 AM Don't worry. Steve is the Hypocrisy Police. And he's a cop on the edge. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:12 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1gwkibti]="SteveJRogers":1gwkibti] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract.[/quote:1gwkibti] If you ever rooted for Mikey Piazza (or, hell, Todd Hundley, or {as-yet-unnamed Met member of the 103}), I would advise you to tread a bit lightly in how you denigrate A-Rod, sirrah, lest you get pulled over by the hypocrisy police. (Not that you shouldn't denigrate A-Rod, mind you... you just might want to be more careful about exactly HOW.)[/quote:1gwkibti] I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:17 AM Look, all I was saying with the steriods is that the Mets dodged one big bullet with not having AFraud on their watch. Sure that sounds naive, and as I said Piazza's name is probably on that list, but in terms of what this thread is, the Mets look better for not getting Mr. 24 and 1, and therefore exscape the scorn of having a mega cheater on their roster as a major free agent signing. batmagadanleadoff Feb 17 2009 07:30 AM Tis better to have cheated and lost than never to have cheated at all. metsmarathon Feb 17 2009 07:58 AM honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 10:06 AM ="metsmarathon":5gy7w2om]honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al.[/quote:5gy7w2om] I'll give you that. But I'm talking about how big of a PR hit it would be for the Mets. I mean they can't even get the naming rights on the stadium done without some controversy brewing and every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official blasting the Mets for not even changing the name to "Tax Payer Field" or breaking the contract. The Mets have had PR nightmare after PR nightmare for so long now, something like being the team that signed ARod and having him claim that it was during that team's tenure that he did the roids (yeaa right of course) would be yet another reason to wonder when the franchise will ever shake its joke label that has been on it since 1987. Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 10:14 AM "Every" is a ridiculous word to pull out --- "every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official." Por favor. Haters can suck it. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:23 AM The funny thing about the original ARod signing is that while most suspect the infamous Steve Phillips pronouncement of "24 and 1" was code for "we don't want to pay the money", not only did it turn out to be pretty damn accurate but the contract the Mets turned away from turned out to be too rich for the team who signed it; was only accepted in trade upon a huge discount; and then only extended at similar rates due to the anticipation of smashing career records which now is put in jeopardy because of his whole "24 and 1" attitude. Irony can be so ironic at times. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:39 AM And as they get ready to do the big ARod press conference it's official ... the team has set Alex up with his own tent. smg58 Feb 17 2009 01:35 PM What bugs me about the fallout from not signing A-Rod way back when is that when Phillips claims that Scott Boras made an unreasonable list of demands -- which is perfectly consistent with what we know about Boras -- all the beat writers assume he is full of it, but when Cashman suggests that Boras offered Beltran to the Yankees at a discount -- which is completely inconsistent with what we know about Boras -- these same writers take him at his word. Following up on what FK said, I think there's a good chance we would have had to do what Texas ultimately did, only it would have been particularly humiliating to us. That being said, I have to vote for Zito as the best free agent non-signing. A-Rod rubbed me wrong then as much as he does now, but at least his on-field performance would have approached what we paid him to do. MFS62 Feb 17 2009 04:33 PM Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:13 PM ="MFS62":1u6ynk3p]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1u6ynk3p] Bullet of Cool nominee. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:36 PM ]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Centerfield Feb 18 2009 07:58 AM ="MFS62":1yup58la]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1yup58la] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez. Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2009 08:10 AM I remember, in the 1976-77 offseason, actually thinking the Mets might sign Reggie Jackson. How na�ve I was! Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 18 2009 11:19 AM ="Centerfield":izn8lv6l]="MFS62":izn8lv6l]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:izn8lv6l] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez.[/quote:izn8lv6l] Or, if you want to split hairs, Barry Bonds in 93. SteveJRogers Feb 18 2009 04:19 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users. Kong76 Feb 18 2009 05:23 PM What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 18 2009 06:37 PM ="Kong76"]What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... Heh. Baby Rey + Season of Primabolin cycles = 500 Hardest-hit 1-3 groundouts in ML history

="batmagadanleadoff":2of2zzzd]="SteveJRogers":2of2zzzd]The way things have gone for the guy since being traded to the MFY, got to put Alex Rodriguez close to Hampton as well.[/quote:2of2zzzd] I dunno Steve. If superscrub Rey Ordonez ever gave us season after season of MVP caliber, 45 HR a year numbers, I might agree with you.[/quote:2of2zzzd] A certain revelation this past week kind of led me to put Rodriguez on this list. To say nothing about how Met Nation would have had a field day over his "lack of clutchness" metsguyinmichigan Feb 16 2009 06:36 PM ="SteveJRogers":2hugbuw0]The way things have gone for the guy since being traded to the MFY, got to put Alex Rodriguez close to Hampton as well.[/quote:2hugbuw0] Steve, I have to tease you for making your first comment on this matter a Yankee-centric statement. batmagadanleadoff Feb 16 2009 07:01 PM ="SteveJRogers"]="batmagadanleadoff"]="SteveJRogers"]The way things have gone for the guy since being traded to the MFY, got to put Alex Rodriguez close to Hampton as well. I dunno Steve. If superscrub Rey Ordonez ever gave us season after season of MVP caliber, 45 HR a year numbers, I might agree with you. A certain revelation this past week kind of led me to put Rodriguez on this list. To say nothing about how Met Nation would have had a field day over his "lack of clutchness" You're Rey Ordonez! <------- Ha Ha! Edgy DC Feb 16 2009 07:32 PM The idea that it's good that the Mets didn't sign Alex Rodriguez, because fans would abuse him over his alleged non-clutchness, is such a defeatest argument that I need to tear all my hair out. There, now I am completely bald. Also, the ten minute thing is in Hell, and beyond saving. Fman99 Feb 16 2009 07:46 PM Zito is the correct answer. We were looking for Zito, Barry Zito. Thanks for playing. SteveJRogers Feb 16 2009 08:12 PM ="Edgy DC":1h4grzv1]The idea that it's good that the Mets didn't sign Alex Rodriguez, because fans would abuse him over his alleged non-clutchness, is such a defeatest argument that I need to tear all my hair out. There, now I am completely bald. Also, the ten minute thing is in Hell, and beyond saving.[/quote:1h4grzv1] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract. SteveJRogers Feb 16 2009 08:15 PM Hampton is joined by Ray Knight in the list of Best Free Agents The Mets Didn't Bring Back. Also Edgardo Alfonzo, and Al Leiter. Edgy DC Feb 16 2009 09:29 PM This is getting stupid ugly fast. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 16 2009 10:59 PM ="SteveJRogers":10f809cw] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract.[/quote:10f809cw] If you ever rooted for Mikey Piazza (or, hell, Todd Hundley, or {as-yet-unnamed Met member of the 103}), I would advise you to tread a bit lightly in how you denigrate A-Rod, sirrah, lest you get pulled over by the hypocrisy police. (Not that you shouldn't denigrate A-Rod, mind you... you just might want to be more careful about exactly HOW.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 05:46 AM Don't worry. Steve is the Hypocrisy Police. And he's a cop on the edge. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:12 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1gwkibti]="SteveJRogers":1gwkibti] No, it is more the idea of the pussy little POS that ARod has acted like in his 5 years in the Bronx being why it was best that the Mets ended up not signing him. That and the fact that he roided up supposedly to live up to a contract.[/quote:1gwkibti] If you ever rooted for Mikey Piazza (or, hell, Todd Hundley, or {as-yet-unnamed Met member of the 103}), I would advise you to tread a bit lightly in how you denigrate A-Rod, sirrah, lest you get pulled over by the hypocrisy police. (Not that you shouldn't denigrate A-Rod, mind you... you just might want to be more careful about exactly HOW.)[/quote:1gwkibti] I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:17 AM Look, all I was saying with the steriods is that the Mets dodged one big bullet with not having AFraud on their watch. Sure that sounds naive, and as I said Piazza's name is probably on that list, but in terms of what this thread is, the Mets look better for not getting Mr. 24 and 1, and therefore exscape the scorn of having a mega cheater on their roster as a major free agent signing. batmagadanleadoff Feb 17 2009 07:30 AM Tis better to have cheated and lost than never to have cheated at all. metsmarathon Feb 17 2009 07:58 AM honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al. SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 10:06 AM ="metsmarathon":5gy7w2om]honestly, i don't really think the yankees brand is suffering one bit from the collective stink of giambi, pettitte, arod, et. al.[/quote:5gy7w2om] I'll give you that. But I'm talking about how big of a PR hit it would be for the Mets. I mean they can't even get the naming rights on the stadium done without some controversy brewing and every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official blasting the Mets for not even changing the name to "Tax Payer Field" or breaking the contract. The Mets have had PR nightmare after PR nightmare for so long now, something like being the team that signed ARod and having him claim that it was during that team's tenure that he did the roids (yeaa right of course) would be yet another reason to wonder when the franchise will ever shake its joke label that has been on it since 1987. Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 10:14 AM "Every" is a ridiculous word to pull out --- "every bank hating, Wall Street hating and NYC hating blogger, reporter and government official." Por favor. Haters can suck it. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:23 AM The funny thing about the original ARod signing is that while most suspect the infamous Steve Phillips pronouncement of "24 and 1" was code for "we don't want to pay the money", not only did it turn out to be pretty damn accurate but the contract the Mets turned away from turned out to be too rich for the team who signed it; was only accepted in trade upon a huge discount; and then only extended at similar rates due to the anticipation of smashing career records which now is put in jeopardy because of his whole "24 and 1" attitude. Irony can be so ironic at times. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 11:39 AM And as they get ready to do the big ARod press conference it's official ... the team has set Alex up with his own tent. smg58 Feb 17 2009 01:35 PM What bugs me about the fallout from not signing A-Rod way back when is that when Phillips claims that Scott Boras made an unreasonable list of demands -- which is perfectly consistent with what we know about Boras -- all the beat writers assume he is full of it, but when Cashman suggests that Boras offered Beltran to the Yankees at a discount -- which is completely inconsistent with what we know about Boras -- these same writers take him at his word. Following up on what FK said, I think there's a good chance we would have had to do what Texas ultimately did, only it would have been particularly humiliating to us. That being said, I have to vote for Zito as the best free agent non-signing. A-Rod rubbed me wrong then as much as he does now, but at least his on-field performance would have approached what we paid him to do. MFS62 Feb 17 2009 04:33 PM Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later SteveJRogers Feb 17 2009 06:13 PM ="MFS62":1u6ynk3p]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1u6ynk3p] Bullet of Cool nominee. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:36 PM ]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Centerfield Feb 18 2009 07:58 AM ="MFS62":1yup58la]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:1yup58la] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez. Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2009 08:10 AM I remember, in the 1976-77 offseason, actually thinking the Mets might sign Reggie Jackson. How na�ve I was! Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 18 2009 11:19 AM ="Centerfield":izn8lv6l]="MFS62":izn8lv6l]Taking the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was Vlad. Later[/quote:izn8lv6l] If you are to take the title of the thread literally, the best free agent the Mets never signed was, again, Alex Rodriguez.[/quote:izn8lv6l] Or, if you want to split hairs, Barry Bonds in 93. SteveJRogers Feb 18 2009 04:19 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I tend not to root for players in particular, and yeah I know the day of reckoning is coming for Piazza, Alfonzo, Hampton, Ventura, Leiter and the rest of those scums on the 1999-2000 squads. Alfonzo, Ventura... scums? So... y'like anyone, Steve? Seaver? That adorable pouting child over there? Your mother, bringing you soup and a birthday present? Okay, overboard hyperbole I know, just letting you know that I'm fully aware that chances are the Mets of that era were filled with steroid users. Kong76 Feb 18 2009 05:23 PM What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 18 2009 06:37 PM ="Kong76"]What would really be funny is that if it comes out that Rey Ordonez was on steroids and still couldn't hit .... Heh. Baby Rey + Season of Primabolin cycles = 500 Hardest-hit 1-3 groundouts in ML history

The way things have gone for the guy since being traded to the MFY, got to put Alex Rodriguez close to Hampton as well.

As I said last year, I like it. It shows some swagger that the team has lacked in recent times. Course the team hasn't shown much swagger two Septembers in a row, but it is nice to see that the players, especially newbies, are into the rivalry. Not as much as the fans of course, but it is there.

="Iubitul"]="Iubitul"]hmmmm.... I always saw Matlack in that image... Actually, no. Bob Ojeda. What is that watermark on the other side of the card top?

Shots of him getting inducted into the Blue Jays' Level of Excellence (they don't retire numbers) last spring

="Frayed Knot":3ilk34o8]That's not his first brush with the law either. Bush now looks almost certain to become the 3rd #1 overall draft pick not to reach the majors (following the Mets' Steve Chilcott and the Yanx' Brien Taylor) and the first to have a simple lack of progress keep him out rather than injuries. Going on five years after his drafting and he's still yet to move beyond 'A' ball at this point having already been moved from position player to pitcher in the process.[/quote:3ilk34o8] Didn't he have a strange way of getting drafted? Story I heard is that he essentially BSed his way with some higher ups in the Padre organization, and that was how he ended up getting drafted, despite some of the things he said being untrue. jerseyshore Feb 09 2009 05:09 PM good clubhouse guy though Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 05:27 PM ="SteveJRogers":2dz3djgu]="Frayed Knot":2dz3djgu]That's not his first brush with the law either. Bush now looks almost certain to become the 3rd #1 overall draft pick not to reach the majors (following the Mets' Steve Chilcott and the Yanx' Brien Taylor) and the first to have a simple lack of progress keep him out rather than injuries. Going on five years after his drafting and he's still yet to move beyond 'A' ball at this point having already been moved from position player to pitcher in the process.[/quote:2dz3djgu] Didn't he have a strange way of getting drafted? Story I heard is that he essentially BSed his way with some higher ups in the Padre organization, and that was how he ended up getting drafted, despite some of the things he said being untrue.[/quote:2dz3djgu] The consensus at the time (that I remember anyway) was that he probably wasn't deserving of the #1 slot although was still considered to be high 1st-round material. Don't know about any "BS-ing". But Sandy Eggo didn't want to pay extra for the likes of college kids demanding big bonuses (Stephen Drew, Jered Weaver) so they chose him instead as a sort of compromise choice and also because he was a local kid from the Mission Bay suburbs of SD who could probably make it as a pitcher even if his hitting failed him. It also didn't help that 2004 is looking like one of the worst 1st round crops in recent years - bad timing for only Mets' Top-5 pick (Humber) since maybe Paul Wilson in '94 - and it looks especially bad when compared to 2005 which is shaping up as one of the best.

="metsguyinmichigan":1yl23d5c]="SteveJRogers":1yl23d5c]="Frayed Knot":1yl23d5c]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1yl23d5c]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1yl23d5c][/quote:1yl23d5c] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1yl23d5c] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union."[/quote:1yl23d5c] I didn't say this was a fraud, I'm giving the whole story on the story breaker. Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 11:06 AM It's seems apparent to me that the Yankees organiztion should be contracted and banished from MLB for the good of the game. Beside, they employed a bunch of 'roid users. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:08 PM (Channeling The Scooter) Holy cow! This is the most shocking revellation so far. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/02/09/2009-02-09_yankees_captain_derek_jeter_says_arod_de.html El Capitan comes out with something that can be taken as a support of A-Rod? And I thought he was the guy who might have ratted him out. Will wonders never cease? Later metirish Feb 09 2009 12:13 PM I'm certain one of our members commented along these lines when this came out. From Ian O'Connor's article today. ] The first sign of serious trouble came last February, when Rodriguez volunteered he�d been drug-tested nine or ten times during his monster 2007 season. Players are supposed to be tested twice during a season, three times if selected for one of 600 additional random tests. A-Rod�s odds of being tested as much as he claimed were a gazillion to one, unless, of course, he�d turned up positive for amphetamines and earned an extra half-dozen mandatory trips to the urinal. O'Connor lays this mess on Hank. Hank MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:19 PM There was a list in today's early edition of the Daily News that named some players who have been associated with taking drugs and steroids in various investigations. I couldn't find the link just now - it may have been replaced by the news that A-Rod may address the press later today. Anyhow, one of the names on the list was Rico Brogna. Had anyone seen his name mentioned about drugs before? Later Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 12:31 PM ARod is in the process of fessing up to Gammons (and ESPN is going to milk this access for all it's worth): - now admits he roided from 2001 to 2003 but not since metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 12:32 PM AP sez ARod confessing to using PEDs between 2001 and 2003. Probably a good move to get it out there. Even better if he says "Derek gave them to me!" metsmarathon Feb 09 2009 12:38 PM wow! good for him! that, btw, is exactly what i would've thought he should say. own up to using for more than you were caught for, and it makes the confession more believable. should be an interesting story to read more on later when i actually have time. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 01:07 PM The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did metirish Feb 09 2009 01:08 PM Alex didn't know what he was taking either...of course you didn't..... metirish Feb 09 2009 02:27 PM I've been thinking about this and I don't dislike Rodriguez anymore after this debacle , I have never cared for him but this doesn't make me care even less for him. I have been following baseball since the mid nineties so in reality looking back I have been a fan in the steroid era. Centerfield Feb 09 2009 03:52 PM ="Frayed Knot":1w77txb8]="metirish":1w77txb8]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1w77txb8] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing.[/quote:1w77txb8] It's like Klapisch and Madden are trying to have a dumb-off. Someone might want to point out to Madden that the "Yankee Brand" not only doesn't cut steroid users, they re-sign them (Pettite). MFS62 Feb 09 2009 04:02 PM Or forgive them (Giambi) Later bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:18 PM Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal. bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:21 PM Alex: "God is doing this for a reason." Yeah, to expose you as a fraud, you self-righteous jackass. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 05:13 PM ="bmfc1":2fg4x9go]Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal.[/quote:2fg4x9go] That was the most interesting thing I took out of his chat w/Gammons (didn't hear/see all of it). And that's not going to gain him any brownie points with the scribes. Not a whole lot gets the collective media more in line as when one of their own is attacked for his/her motives. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 05:21 PM Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods? Later MFS62 Feb 09 2009 06:35 PM Did he or didn't he is just copious quantities of ca ca. This is the real issue: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...o&type=lgns Whoever leaked the list could look at doing some real hard time. Later Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 07:45 PM Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 07:48 PM That's cold. Funny. But cold. Literally LOL! Later metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 08:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2q348b13]Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party.[/quote:2q348b13] Badass bullet of cool! metirish Feb 10 2009 06:35 AM I watched the interview last night , thought Gammons was disgraceful , not surprised by that though. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:00 AM ="MFS62":2tuoh1qv]Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods?[/quote:2tuoh1qv] I'm operating under the assumption that the stories* of Roberts breaking into his house and "stalking" him are, at best, over-the-top exaggerations and that what Alex considers to be criminal harassment will be seen by other reporters as 'doing her job'. So, yeah, I expect the media as a whole to close ranks around her rather than him. * Apparently there was "an incident" with reporter Roberts and a guard at the gate outside of Rodriguez's community. Not sure if that's what he's blown up into 'trying to break in' or if he's talking about something else. Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 10 2009 07:52 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did Actually, the Pettitte defense is more like: I didn't. Oh, you got me? Well, I only did it that time. Ok, I did it a little more than you caught me for, but never again or before. This defense allows you to seem like you're telling the truth, since you admit to just a smidge more than you got busted for, while at the same time limiting damage to your reputation, since there was only a small time span (always significantly in the past) in which you were cheating. This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt. I assume that these tests only snag the very tips of the icebergs in terms of how many are cheating and how often they are. I think A-Rod, Pettitte and countless others (including many Mets I loved and still love following) have used PEDs since high school and continue to cheat to the present day. Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 08:00 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":3cjpun8v]This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt.[/quote:3cjpun8v] Unless, of course the athlete is A-Rod. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 08:19 AM Not to stoke this more but Jeter fed his fanclub in the 4th estate an interesting line yesterday. Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. Note how Jeets dares his cheering section to accuse him of something, so he can act wronged from the start. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:12 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. . Bondy definitely finds that answer acceptable... ] That was the answer we wanted to hear. Jeter is the guy who stays out of trouble, doesn't go trawling for it. He remains single, so his romantic dalliances amuse instead of disgust us. He keeps quiet about the contract that expires in 2010, about his place in the lineup, about the pitchers and teammates and coaches who have failed him in recent seasons what would these guys do if their beloved Jeter was dirty...Snooze has 15 pages on Rodriguez. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:43 AM Jeter's proof is in his middling stats. If he put those numbers up in Kansas City, he'd be just another decent player. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 09:47 AM No no no no no no. My point is if he played in this era he's a suspect whose denial is as sincere as anyone else's. Everyone is a suspect, and the papers still don't get it. And players from Termel Sledge to Manny Aybar should have proven by now that numbers have little to do with it. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:56 AM Yeah numbers mean nothing really , as we know a lot of players took them to help recover from injury or just to recover from games, unlike Rodriguez who was just young and stoopid. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:57 AM Letterman on ARod Top Ten Messages Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine 10 "Hey, it's Mark McGwire, want to get together this weekend and not talk about the past?" 9 "Joe Torre here, thanks for helping book sales." 8 "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?" 7 "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?" 6 "Hi, it's Bernie Madoff. Nice try, but I'm still the most hated man in NYC." 5 "Michael Phelps here, got any snacks?" 4 "Hi, this is Sammy Sosa, just pretend you don't speak English." 3 "Michael Phelps again, did I call you or did you call me?" 2 "Hi this is Rod Blagojevich, I'll say you're innocent if you say I am." and the Number One Message Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine: 1 "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?" soupcan Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM Fucking funny! metirish Feb 10 2009 11:43 AM Hilarious from Letterman.... Representative Elijah Cummings apparently wants to bring Rodriguez before Congress. ] "I think we're going to have to see what Rodriguez will tell us," Cummings said in a phone interview. "He is in a confessing mode, so maybe he needs to put his apology into some meaningful action by cooperating with the committee so we can see if there are things we need to reopen to make sure baseball is doing all that it can to rid itself of this kind of practice." Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 11:47 AM Me as A-Rod: "I'll testify under oath if everybody else does. Don't have time for that? OK, then just Derek." metirish Feb 10 2009 11:48 AM Let's just play ball. MFS62 Feb 10 2009 11:51 AM Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. The penalties are here: http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm#1176 From information published about the A-Rod case, the tests were conducted by a licensed medical testing organization. To me, that makes them covered by that law. Those 2003 tests were conducted under the terms of anonymity. In that case, I can't believe any of the players testd signed a release/ waiver of those terms. Therefore, IMO anyone divulging those results has committed a crime and should be punished. Can any Medical folks here confirm my opinion? Later metirish Feb 10 2009 12:04 PM Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 1:57 PM EST, February 10, 2009 David Wright praised Alex Rodriguez for coming clean on his PED use during Monday's interview with ESPN, but also took a hard-line against cheaters. "I hope that anybody who cheats get caught," Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." That said, Wright still believes that A-Rod is "a tremendous player" and laughed when someone asked about comparing himself to the Yankees' third baseman in the wake of these revelations. "He's better than me," a smiling Wright said Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 12:18 PM ]Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. Fine. Now all you have to do is convince the government that they need to prosecute themselves over the fact that they're the ones who first confiscated, then leaked, the records. metirish Feb 10 2009 01:15 PM Congress thankfully win not haul Rodriguez in for a grilling. ] The statement from Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY) today reads: "The news that another one of baseball's premier players -- in addition to another 103 unnamed players -- used performance enhancing drugs is disturbing and sends yet another horrible message to our young people. "With unemployment in this country approaching double digits and our constituents' very livelihoods being threatened by the nation's economic woes, I intend to focus on passing President Obama's Economic Recovery legislation to get Americans back to work to fix our sinking economy. The American people need leaders who will focus on stemming job losses and getting credit to flow in the marketplace before hearing from yet another person who cheated both himself and the game of baseball. The Committee began this investigation in the face of a weak and ineffective drug testing policy that compromised the integrity of Major League Baseball. Now that baseball is implementing one of the most comprehensive drug testing policies in major league sports, I look forward to monitoring how well the policy is working to ensure the credibility of our national pastime. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:36 PM ="metirish"]Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." Someone give that boy a hug. Or a puppy dog. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:42 PM Caple Blames Madonna For A-Rod's Steroid Use[/url:1axxb394]. G-Fafif Feb 10 2009 04:44 PM Just you wait -- some version of this[/url:1e05cmtc] will be written by at least one of the columnists cited. metirish Feb 10 2009 04:53 PM OMG , brilliant.... Edgy DC Feb 12 2009 08:13 AM Zev goes the whole nine yards, and the only moral failure he indicts the Rod for is giving up the juice and therefore ripping the Yankees off. Opinion A-Rod, get back on the 'roids You've got nothing to apologize about; drugs have been part of professional baseball for a long time. By Zev Chafets February 12, 2009 If it is true that Alex Rodriguez stopped using steroids in 2003, before he came to New York, the Yankees have been swindled. A-Rod hasn't been trying his hardest to win and help his team. In A-Rod's defense, it could be argued that there is no empirical proof that taking anabolic steroids improves baseball performance. But baseball players think they do. A-Rod himself admits he took steroids to make himself one of the greatest players of all time. Even if steroids are potentially dangerous (and despite suspicions, there is no proof that they cause permanent harm when properly administered to adult males), what of it? For many people, danger is the price of doing business. Construction workers, firefighters, cops and combat soldiers all take their lives in their hands to earn a living. According to Sports Illustrated, 104 major leaguers tested positive for steroids in 2003. That's about 10% of the players in the majors. Back in 2003, A-Rod didn't necessarily know who the other 103 users were. But he did know that they were out there someplace. They might have been pitchers he was facing, or fielders who caught up with his batted balls. He probably guessed that some of the juicers were the great hitters he was competing against for primacy and the money that goes with it. Can anybody blame A-Rod for leveling the playing field? What was he supposed to say: My rivals may be chemically enhancing their performances, but that's just a disadvantage I must live with? Baseball players have been doing drugs since Hall of Fame pitcher Pud Galvin shot up with monkey testosterone in 1889. And it's not just steroids, Since the '60s, major leaguers also have used amphetamines and downers. Players take them for professional purposes, not for fun. As every Little Leaguer has been taught, you sacrifice what you must for the good of the team. You play hurt if necessary, and you take your advantages where you find them. Gaylord Perry threw spitballs, more or less publicly, for 20 years, and he got into Cooperstown. As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. Even Babe Ruth was caught corking his bat. These and a hundred other incidents of sign stealing, bat tippling, ball scuffing and bat doctoring are staples of baseball lore, lovingly recounted by after-dinner speakers and broadcasters across American generations. Cheating is as much a part of Major League Baseball as alcoholism, ethnic bench jockeying and the ground-rule double. Besides, let's be honest. Americans love chemicals that provide an edge. Students use them to cram for finals. Pilots and surgeons take Provigil to keep sharp. Trial lawyers and Broadway actors pop beta blockers to ward off stage fright. Bob Dole pitched Viagra on television. I've even heard rumors about sportswriters who smoothed out their workdays with Prozac. Science marches on, no matter how much we long for the pristine days before medication. Ballplayers will always look for an edge, and chemists will always come up with one, and a way to evade testing too. "Everybody does it" is not a moral defense, but honestly, is this really a moral issue? Baseball hasn't treated it that way. Forty years after Jim Bouton revealed the widespread use of "greenies," no players have been seriously punished for using chemicals. Even now, the only real threat is getting banned from the Hall of Fame, and we'll see how long that lasts in the age of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and A-Rod. The baseball establishment still hasn't made a real effort to stop players from using steroids, because it is believed that steroids enhance performance and help win games -- and that is what professional baseball is all about. Except, it turns out, to A-Rod. For the last four seasons, he has let his teammates and his fans down by doing less than his best. Unless, of course, he is lying about having quit in 2003, and he's been enhancing right along. Say that it's so, A-Rod. Say that it's so. Zev Chafets' book on the Baseball Hall of Fame, "Cooperstown Confidential," will be published in May. Rockin' Doc Feb 12 2009 11:09 AM My dear Mr. Chafets, You sir, are an idiot. Sincerely, --Rockin' Doc metirish Feb 12 2009 11:36 AM ] As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. For fucks sake man get a grip . Ashie62 Feb 12 2009 05:04 PM ="metirish":1ih6vdd4]Let's just play ball.[/quote:1ih6vdd4] Yup...This whole steroid drama is wearing thin..Since no Ballplayers are beyond question as to taking performance enhancers why don't we do this to wrap up the issue for good. 1. On opening day for all teams at their own parks have every player in uniform do 200 Military squats as punishment and penance. Fans can use the time to boo or heckle to vent, or step out to get some delicious Wise snacks. 2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it. 3. Current Drug Testing Policies are in place to move forward. Lastly, I'm not going to hammer Arod or any other abuser as I won't should any of our boys get outed...I can't imagine David Wright ever being involved in this mess but as I said..no one is beyond question. Now play ball!!! soupcan Feb 13 2009 11:21 AM If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex. seawolf17 Feb 17 2009 12:05 PM This press conference is insipid. PatchyFogg Feb 17 2009 12:09 PM ="soupcan":ko45fwv9]If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex.[/quote:ko45fwv9] And, we're having Kirk Radomski live at 9:15PM tonight on LI's 90.3FM in case anyone is in the listening area. I'll put it up at http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg after the show. In the meantime (at the same website), you can check out the 2 commercial-free hour Mets Preview that we did with Adam Rubin right before he left for Port St. Lucie. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 12:12 PM ="seawolf17":3rs9xhqj]This press conference is insipid.[/quote:3rs9xhqj] What more did you want him to say? I relize the media needs to keep beating it to death because they have columns to fill, but I've heard all I need to hear already. metirish Feb 17 2009 12:52 PM It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 12:57 PM John Harper in the meantime is suckered into taking Texiera's word he's never used, why he's "cleaner than Derek Jeter if that's even possible" (yes, he actually wrote that today). themetfairy Feb 17 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":2kjyziqi]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:2kjyziqi] How does he feel about World Peace? holychicken Feb 17 2009 03:03 PM ="Ashie62":2gt1v9x0]2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it.[/quote:2gt1v9x0] The "small balls era" makes more sense. metirish Feb 17 2009 08:14 PM Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone"..... Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:20 PM Is that something he wrote or said? metirish Feb 17 2009 08:29 PM I was watching the news and he said it, not the exact quote from me but close . MFS62 Feb 17 2009 09:17 PM ="themetfairy":67aky83c]="metirish":67aky83c]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:67aky83c] How does he feel about World Peace?[/quote:67aky83c] It doesn't matter. He's not competing for Miss America. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:57 PM ="metirish":cg5944xb]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:cg5944xb] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask? Nymr83 Feb 18 2009 02:26 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

="Frayed Knot":2q83r4pt]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:2q83r4pt]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:2q83r4pt][/quote:2q83r4pt] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud. metirish Feb 09 2009 09:21 AM How are you holding up Steve? Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:27 AM That this is to sell a smelly book is just rotten. It seems to me the union spokespersons should have spent the last two days burning up the airwaves with invective over this. metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":1qvyocmb]="Frayed Knot":1qvyocmb]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1qvyocmb]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1qvyocmb][/quote:1qvyocmb] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1qvyocmb] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union." Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:31 AM ="SteveJRogers":3m388vh4]="Frayed Knot":3m388vh4]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:3m388vh4]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:3m388vh4][/quote:3m388vh4] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:3m388vh4] Depends on what she wrote about that case and when. Also, there's a big difference between being an opinion-writing, deadline-oriented newspaper columnist (which she was at the time of the Duke case) and a book-writing journalist chronicling someone's life story (or part of it) as she is on the ARod trail. The standards and practices are very different between the two job descriptions. SteveJRogers Feb 09 2009 09:43 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1yl23d5c]="SteveJRogers":1yl23d5c]="Frayed Knot":1yl23d5c]btw, turns out that SI's Selena Roberts (formerly of the NYTimes) who broke this story did so because she's been on the ARod trail in preparation for her upcoming book (sked for May release): [u:1yl23d5c]Hit & Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez[/u:1yl23d5c][/quote:1yl23d5c] She was also one of those on the forefront against the Duke Lacrosse team players in that rape case, that turned out to be a big fraud.[/quote:1yl23d5c] Steve, if this was a fraud, I think ARod's response would have been stronger than "Talk to the union."[/quote:1yl23d5c] I didn't say this was a fraud, I'm giving the whole story on the story breaker. Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 11:06 AM It's seems apparent to me that the Yankees organiztion should be contracted and banished from MLB for the good of the game. Beside, they employed a bunch of 'roid users. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:08 PM (Channeling The Scooter) Holy cow! This is the most shocking revellation so far. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/02/09/2009-02-09_yankees_captain_derek_jeter_says_arod_de.html El Capitan comes out with something that can be taken as a support of A-Rod? And I thought he was the guy who might have ratted him out. Will wonders never cease? Later metirish Feb 09 2009 12:13 PM I'm certain one of our members commented along these lines when this came out. From Ian O'Connor's article today. ] The first sign of serious trouble came last February, when Rodriguez volunteered he�d been drug-tested nine or ten times during his monster 2007 season. Players are supposed to be tested twice during a season, three times if selected for one of 600 additional random tests. A-Rod�s odds of being tested as much as he claimed were a gazillion to one, unless, of course, he�d turned up positive for amphetamines and earned an extra half-dozen mandatory trips to the urinal. O'Connor lays this mess on Hank. Hank MFS62 Feb 09 2009 12:19 PM There was a list in today's early edition of the Daily News that named some players who have been associated with taking drugs and steroids in various investigations. I couldn't find the link just now - it may have been replaced by the news that A-Rod may address the press later today. Anyhow, one of the names on the list was Rico Brogna. Had anyone seen his name mentioned about drugs before? Later Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 12:31 PM ARod is in the process of fessing up to Gammons (and ESPN is going to milk this access for all it's worth): - now admits he roided from 2001 to 2003 but not since metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 12:32 PM AP sez ARod confessing to using PEDs between 2001 and 2003. Probably a good move to get it out there. Even better if he says "Derek gave them to me!" metsmarathon Feb 09 2009 12:38 PM wow! good for him! that, btw, is exactly what i would've thought he should say. own up to using for more than you were caught for, and it makes the confession more believable. should be an interesting story to read more on later when i actually have time. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 09 2009 01:07 PM The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did metirish Feb 09 2009 01:08 PM Alex didn't know what he was taking either...of course you didn't..... metirish Feb 09 2009 02:27 PM I've been thinking about this and I don't dislike Rodriguez anymore after this debacle , I have never cared for him but this doesn't make me care even less for him. I have been following baseball since the mid nineties so in reality looking back I have been a fan in the steroid era. Centerfield Feb 09 2009 03:52 PM ="Frayed Knot":1w77txb8]="metirish":1w77txb8]Bill Madden in the Snooze today says the MFY's need to 'Cut him loose - no matter the cost" , they would be "applauded for it"....hey it's only $270 million....[/quote:1w77txb8] That's so absurdly over the top that it's barely worth discussing.[/quote:1w77txb8] It's like Klapisch and Madden are trying to have a dumb-off. Someone might want to point out to Madden that the "Yankee Brand" not only doesn't cut steroid users, they re-sign them (Pettite). MFS62 Feb 09 2009 04:02 PM Or forgive them (Giambi) Later bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:18 PM Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal. bmfc1 Feb 09 2009 04:21 PM Alex: "God is doing this for a reason." Yeah, to expose you as a fraud, you self-righteous jackass. Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 05:13 PM ="bmfc1":2fg4x9go]Real classy Alex: he accuses Selena Roberts of breaking into his house, scaring his kids, and only doing this because she has a book deal.[/quote:2fg4x9go] That was the most interesting thing I took out of his chat w/Gammons (didn't hear/see all of it). And that's not going to gain him any brownie points with the scribes. Not a whole lot gets the collective media more in line as when one of their own is attacked for his/her motives. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 05:21 PM Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods? Later MFS62 Feb 09 2009 06:35 PM Did he or didn't he is just copious quantities of ca ca. This is the real issue: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...o&type=lgns Whoever leaked the list could look at doing some real hard time. Later Rockin' Doc Feb 09 2009 07:45 PM Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 07:48 PM That's cold. Funny. But cold. Literally LOL! Later metsguyinmichigan Feb 09 2009 08:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2q348b13]Lunchbucket - "I thought of all Madden's cockamamie points, the fact that this event tarnishes the MFY Brand that they've worked so hard to feed us was actually a good one. I mean, were it up to the Yankee Brand people exclusively, they'd probably have Rodriguez killed." They could just have Rivera invite A-Rod to a pool party.[/quote:2q348b13] Badass bullet of cool! metirish Feb 10 2009 06:35 AM I watched the interview last night , thought Gammons was disgraceful , not surprised by that though. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:00 AM ="MFS62":2tuoh1qv]Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods?[/quote:2tuoh1qv] I'm operating under the assumption that the stories* of Roberts breaking into his house and "stalking" him are, at best, over-the-top exaggerations and that what Alex considers to be criminal harassment will be seen by other reporters as 'doing her job'. So, yeah, I expect the media as a whole to close ranks around her rather than him. * Apparently there was "an incident" with reporter Roberts and a guard at the gate outside of Rodriguez's community. Not sure if that's what he's blown up into 'trying to break in' or if he's talking about something else. Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 10 2009 07:52 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The Andy Pettitte defense. I didn;t. Oh, you got me? OK I did Actually, the Pettitte defense is more like: I didn't. Oh, you got me? Well, I only did it that time. Ok, I did it a little more than you caught me for, but never again or before. This defense allows you to seem like you're telling the truth, since you admit to just a smidge more than you got busted for, while at the same time limiting damage to your reputation, since there was only a small time span (always significantly in the past) in which you were cheating. This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt. I assume that these tests only snag the very tips of the icebergs in terms of how many are cheating and how often they are. I think A-Rod, Pettitte and countless others (including many Mets I loved and still love following) have used PEDs since high school and continue to cheat to the present day. Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 08:00 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":3cjpun8v]This defense works well because people want to give these athletes the benefit of the doubt.[/quote:3cjpun8v] Unless, of course the athlete is A-Rod. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 08:19 AM Not to stoke this more but Jeter fed his fanclub in the 4th estate an interesting line yesterday. Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. Note how Jeets dares his cheering section to accuse him of something, so he can act wronged from the start. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:12 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Filip Bondy who may as well titled his piece in the snooze today GOD I LOVE THE TASTE OF DEREK'S BALLSACK practically apologizes for even asking whether Jeter did it and finds the answer: "Why would my name be on that list?" as an acceptable response. . Bondy definitely finds that answer acceptable... ] That was the answer we wanted to hear. Jeter is the guy who stays out of trouble, doesn't go trawling for it. He remains single, so his romantic dalliances amuse instead of disgust us. He keeps quiet about the contract that expires in 2010, about his place in the lineup, about the pitchers and teammates and coaches who have failed him in recent seasons what would these guys do if their beloved Jeter was dirty...Snooze has 15 pages on Rodriguez. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:43 AM Jeter's proof is in his middling stats. If he put those numbers up in Kansas City, he'd be just another decent player. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 10 2009 09:47 AM No no no no no no. My point is if he played in this era he's a suspect whose denial is as sincere as anyone else's. Everyone is a suspect, and the papers still don't get it. And players from Termel Sledge to Manny Aybar should have proven by now that numbers have little to do with it. metirish Feb 10 2009 09:56 AM Yeah numbers mean nothing really , as we know a lot of players took them to help recover from injury or just to recover from games, unlike Rodriguez who was just young and stoopid. metsguyinmichigan Feb 10 2009 09:57 AM Letterman on ARod Top Ten Messages Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine 10 "Hey, it's Mark McGwire, want to get together this weekend and not talk about the past?" 9 "Joe Torre here, thanks for helping book sales." 8 "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?" 7 "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?" 6 "Hi, it's Bernie Madoff. Nice try, but I'm still the most hated man in NYC." 5 "Michael Phelps here, got any snacks?" 4 "Hi, this is Sammy Sosa, just pretend you don't speak English." 3 "Michael Phelps again, did I call you or did you call me?" 2 "Hi this is Rod Blagojevich, I'll say you're innocent if you say I am." and the Number One Message Left on Alex Rodriguez's Answering Machine: 1 "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?" soupcan Feb 10 2009 10:09 AM Fucking funny! metirish Feb 10 2009 11:43 AM Hilarious from Letterman.... Representative Elijah Cummings apparently wants to bring Rodriguez before Congress. ] "I think we're going to have to see what Rodriguez will tell us," Cummings said in a phone interview. "He is in a confessing mode, so maybe he needs to put his apology into some meaningful action by cooperating with the committee so we can see if there are things we need to reopen to make sure baseball is doing all that it can to rid itself of this kind of practice." Edgy DC Feb 10 2009 11:47 AM Me as A-Rod: "I'll testify under oath if everybody else does. Don't have time for that? OK, then just Derek." metirish Feb 10 2009 11:48 AM Let's just play ball. MFS62 Feb 10 2009 11:51 AM Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. The penalties are here: http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm#1176 From information published about the A-Rod case, the tests were conducted by a licensed medical testing organization. To me, that makes them covered by that law. Those 2003 tests were conducted under the terms of anonymity. In that case, I can't believe any of the players testd signed a release/ waiver of those terms. Therefore, IMO anyone divulging those results has committed a crime and should be punished. Can any Medical folks here confirm my opinion? Later metirish Feb 10 2009 12:04 PM Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com 1:57 PM EST, February 10, 2009 David Wright praised Alex Rodriguez for coming clean on his PED use during Monday's interview with ESPN, but also took a hard-line against cheaters. "I hope that anybody who cheats get caught," Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." That said, Wright still believes that A-Rod is "a tremendous player" and laughed when someone asked about comparing himself to the Yankees' third baseman in the wake of these revelations. "He's better than me," a smiling Wright said Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 12:18 PM ]Under HIPAA regulations (in force since 1996) divulging the results of a medical test without the express consent of the patient is a violation of Federal Law. Fine. Now all you have to do is convince the government that they need to prosecute themselves over the fact that they're the ones who first confiscated, then leaked, the records. metirish Feb 10 2009 01:15 PM Congress thankfully win not haul Rodriguez in for a grilling. ] The statement from Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY) today reads: "The news that another one of baseball's premier players -- in addition to another 103 unnamed players -- used performance enhancing drugs is disturbing and sends yet another horrible message to our young people. "With unemployment in this country approaching double digits and our constituents' very livelihoods being threatened by the nation's economic woes, I intend to focus on passing President Obama's Economic Recovery legislation to get Americans back to work to fix our sinking economy. The American people need leaders who will focus on stemming job losses and getting credit to flow in the marketplace before hearing from yet another person who cheated both himself and the game of baseball. The Committee began this investigation in the face of a weak and ineffective drug testing policy that compromised the integrity of Major League Baseball. Now that baseball is implementing one of the most comprehensive drug testing policies in major league sports, I look forward to monitoring how well the policy is working to ensure the credibility of our national pastime. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:36 PM ="metirish"]Our David has spoken ] Mets' David Wright praises A-Rod for coming clean Wright said. "Maybe its me being na�ve, but I think baseball is clean. You would have to be either very desperate or flat-out stupid to try and beat the system now." Someone give that boy a hug. Or a puppy dog. themetfairy Feb 10 2009 01:42 PM Caple Blames Madonna For A-Rod's Steroid Use[/url:1axxb394]. G-Fafif Feb 10 2009 04:44 PM Just you wait -- some version of this[/url:1e05cmtc] will be written by at least one of the columnists cited. metirish Feb 10 2009 04:53 PM OMG , brilliant.... Edgy DC Feb 12 2009 08:13 AM Zev goes the whole nine yards, and the only moral failure he indicts the Rod for is giving up the juice and therefore ripping the Yankees off. Opinion A-Rod, get back on the 'roids You've got nothing to apologize about; drugs have been part of professional baseball for a long time. By Zev Chafets February 12, 2009 If it is true that Alex Rodriguez stopped using steroids in 2003, before he came to New York, the Yankees have been swindled. A-Rod hasn't been trying his hardest to win and help his team. In A-Rod's defense, it could be argued that there is no empirical proof that taking anabolic steroids improves baseball performance. But baseball players think they do. A-Rod himself admits he took steroids to make himself one of the greatest players of all time. Even if steroids are potentially dangerous (and despite suspicions, there is no proof that they cause permanent harm when properly administered to adult males), what of it? For many people, danger is the price of doing business. Construction workers, firefighters, cops and combat soldiers all take their lives in their hands to earn a living. According to Sports Illustrated, 104 major leaguers tested positive for steroids in 2003. That's about 10% of the players in the majors. Back in 2003, A-Rod didn't necessarily know who the other 103 users were. But he did know that they were out there someplace. They might have been pitchers he was facing, or fielders who caught up with his batted balls. He probably guessed that some of the juicers were the great hitters he was competing against for primacy and the money that goes with it. Can anybody blame A-Rod for leveling the playing field? What was he supposed to say: My rivals may be chemically enhancing their performances, but that's just a disadvantage I must live with? Baseball players have been doing drugs since Hall of Fame pitcher Pud Galvin shot up with monkey testosterone in 1889. And it's not just steroids, Since the '60s, major leaguers also have used amphetamines and downers. Players take them for professional purposes, not for fun. As every Little Leaguer has been taught, you sacrifice what you must for the good of the team. You play hurt if necessary, and you take your advantages where you find them. Gaylord Perry threw spitballs, more or less publicly, for 20 years, and he got into Cooperstown. As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. Even Babe Ruth was caught corking his bat. These and a hundred other incidents of sign stealing, bat tippling, ball scuffing and bat doctoring are staples of baseball lore, lovingly recounted by after-dinner speakers and broadcasters across American generations. Cheating is as much a part of Major League Baseball as alcoholism, ethnic bench jockeying and the ground-rule double. Besides, let's be honest. Americans love chemicals that provide an edge. Students use them to cram for finals. Pilots and surgeons take Provigil to keep sharp. Trial lawyers and Broadway actors pop beta blockers to ward off stage fright. Bob Dole pitched Viagra on television. I've even heard rumors about sportswriters who smoothed out their workdays with Prozac. Science marches on, no matter how much we long for the pristine days before medication. Ballplayers will always look for an edge, and chemists will always come up with one, and a way to evade testing too. "Everybody does it" is not a moral defense, but honestly, is this really a moral issue? Baseball hasn't treated it that way. Forty years after Jim Bouton revealed the widespread use of "greenies," no players have been seriously punished for using chemicals. Even now, the only real threat is getting banned from the Hall of Fame, and we'll see how long that lasts in the age of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and A-Rod. The baseball establishment still hasn't made a real effort to stop players from using steroids, because it is believed that steroids enhance performance and help win games -- and that is what professional baseball is all about. Except, it turns out, to A-Rod. For the last four seasons, he has let his teammates and his fans down by doing less than his best. Unless, of course, he is lying about having quit in 2003, and he's been enhancing right along. Say that it's so, A-Rod. Say that it's so. Zev Chafets' book on the Baseball Hall of Fame, "Cooperstown Confidential," will be published in May. Rockin' Doc Feb 12 2009 11:09 AM My dear Mr. Chafets, You sir, are an idiot. Sincerely, --Rockin' Doc metirish Feb 12 2009 11:36 AM ] As a player, John McGraw tripped so many base runners that baseball was forced to introduce an infield umpire -- and McGraw is in the Hall of Fame too. For fucks sake man get a grip . Ashie62 Feb 12 2009 05:04 PM ="metirish":1ih6vdd4]Let's just play ball.[/quote:1ih6vdd4] Yup...This whole steroid drama is wearing thin..Since no Ballplayers are beyond question as to taking performance enhancers why don't we do this to wrap up the issue for good. 1. On opening day for all teams at their own parks have every player in uniform do 200 Military squats as punishment and penance. Fans can use the time to boo or heckle to vent, or step out to get some delicious Wise snacks. 2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it. 3. Current Drug Testing Policies are in place to move forward. Lastly, I'm not going to hammer Arod or any other abuser as I won't should any of our boys get outed...I can't imagine David Wright ever being involved in this mess but as I said..no one is beyond question. Now play ball!!! soupcan Feb 13 2009 11:21 AM If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex. seawolf17 Feb 17 2009 12:05 PM This press conference is insipid. PatchyFogg Feb 17 2009 12:09 PM ="soupcan":ko45fwv9]If anyone's interested - Pete Rose is going to be on WFAN with Francesa in a couple of minutes. I'm sure he'll be talking about Alex.[/quote:ko45fwv9] And, we're having Kirk Radomski live at 9:15PM tonight on LI's 90.3FM in case anyone is in the listening area. I'll put it up at http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg after the show. In the meantime (at the same website), you can check out the 2 commercial-free hour Mets Preview that we did with Adam Rubin right before he left for Port St. Lucie. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 12:12 PM ="seawolf17":3rs9xhqj]This press conference is insipid.[/quote:3rs9xhqj] What more did you want him to say? I relize the media needs to keep beating it to death because they have columns to fill, but I've heard all I need to hear already. metirish Feb 17 2009 12:52 PM It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 12:57 PM John Harper in the meantime is suckered into taking Texiera's word he's never used, why he's "cleaner than Derek Jeter if that's even possible" (yes, he actually wrote that today). themetfairy Feb 17 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":2kjyziqi]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:2kjyziqi] How does he feel about World Peace? holychicken Feb 17 2009 03:03 PM ="Ashie62":2gt1v9x0]2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it.[/quote:2gt1v9x0] The "small balls era" makes more sense. metirish Feb 17 2009 08:14 PM Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone"..... Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:20 PM Is that something he wrote or said? metirish Feb 17 2009 08:29 PM I was watching the news and he said it, not the exact quote from me but close . MFS62 Feb 17 2009 09:17 PM ="themetfairy":67aky83c]="metirish":67aky83c]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:67aky83c] How does he feel about World Peace?[/quote:67aky83c] It doesn't matter. He's not competing for Miss America. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:57 PM ="metirish":cg5944xb]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:cg5944xb] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask? Nymr83 Feb 18 2009 02:26 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

Did KB mention to Eddie that her hubby runs a website named in his honor?

="Edgy DC":r3qsrvm7]Thanks. I'll agree. There's also wonderful things that can happen when a team fills in the blanks, but sticks to the plan even if they came up short the previous year. The main offseason acquisitions of 1985-1986 were Tim Teufel and Bob Ojeda. The main ones in 1969 were both Rule Fivers --- Jack DiLauro and Wayne Garrett! Pumping up the pen and shoring up the depth chart may not make your hair stand up, but I've seen fans oversold enough.[/quote:r3qsrvm7] Are you sure there really is a plan? And I'm sorry but this is not the 1986 Mets out there, heck I'd say that isn't even the 2006 Mets out there. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 02 2009 07:18 PM ="attgig":3aazttg1]="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3aazttg1]="Benjamin Grimm":3aazttg1]Yeah, I'm with you. Today's the one-year anniversary of the Johan Santana deal, and that was the day that I officially became excited for the 2008 season. Nothing yet has me fired up for 2009. I'll be glad when the season starts, but I'm not doing a whole lot of anticipating.[/quote:3aazttg1] Not saying this is any justification, but I'm thinking a season without unreal expectations is exactly what Met Nation could use.[/quote:3aazttg1] lol, so let's set the bar really low, so that we won't be disappointed if we don't make the playoffs yet again?[/quote:3aazttg1] Oh, sorry. SIGN MANNY NOW!!!! FREEDDY COUPONS!!!!1 Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 07:25 AM ="SteveJRogers":5fnaustv]Are you sure there really is a plan?[/quote:5fnaustv] Yes. ="SteveJRogers":5fnaustv]And I'm sorry but this is not the 1986 Mets out there, heck I'd say that isn't even the 2006 Mets out there.[/quote:5fnaustv] They aren't out there at all yet. And when they do go out there, they'll be the 2009 Mets and nobody else. What are you sorry about? Centerfield Feb 03 2009 07:14 PM You'll get nothing and like it. Says Omar at today's press conference, according to Metsblog. Or something like that. Omar says no more major moves this offseason. metirish Feb 03 2009 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 04 2009 09:38 AM Here's the video of that Damn it's worth watching , around the two minute mark things get interesting. bmfc1 Feb 03 2009 08:17 PM Mets management seems to operate with a plan of "if all goes well, we'll win." We know, sadly, that not everything goes well. After '07, the feeling was that if they had one more good starter, they would have won, so they got Johan. After last year, the feeling was that if the bullpen was better, they would have won, so they got Felix and J.J. In both cases, they didn't change much else. I agree that this team is better than the last one because of the vast improvement to the bullpen, but they haven't factored in any unexpected problems. There are no guarantees that anybody, not even David Wright, will put up the same numbers as last year. Does managment think that Manny, or even Nady, would give the team too much hitting? In '07, we saw Dave Williams and Brian Lawrence start key games at the end of the season. In '08, we saw Luis Ayala pitch the end of key games at the end of the season. This is because of a lack of depth that leaves management scrambling for reinforcements at critical times. Wouldn't Ty Wigginton have been a good insurance policy for injuries at any number of positions? Wouldn't Kevin Millar have been a good insurance policy for a slumping Carlos Delgado? Management does a lot--the third highest payroll in the game--but they don't go as far as they should. Perhaps, in the best case scenario, they'll be right. I hope so. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 07:37 AM It's not like everything else went right last year and the Mets are counting on such fortune to repeat itself. They had a spectacular run of injuries in the corner outfield positions that they survivied better than anybody could have expected. Nobody should have anticipated more than a third of a season from Alou, but one after another they fell --- Alou, Pagan, Alou again, Anderson, Churchie, Nixon, Anderson again --- all the best ones for disturbingly long stays. The idea here seems to be that the Mets are correcting one problem and expecting everything else to go as right as last year, but ignoring the likelihood of many of these things gravitating downward toward the mean. But this doesn't credit how many things went wrong and could/should improve by gravitating toward the mean. A lot of work goes into building the system and I'm perfectly OK with them plugging in answers from there. We demand decisive aggressive action with replacing players like Castillo, but we have to acknowledge that the persistence of players like Castillo is the result of decisive aggressive action. That sort of emotional management has a domino effect that led to the 1994 Mets just as surely as it led to the 2004 Mets. willpie Feb 04 2009 09:33 AM I'm not saying it's rational, the best possible plan, or even an especially good plan, but I'd kill to get Nady on this team. Clubhouse presence, fan favorite, RH bat, can play 1st--that's a lot of pluses. Frayed Knot Feb 04 2009 09:44 AM The Yanx would trade him (either him or Swisher). The question then becomes what you're willing to give up. They gave up several promising (although hardly guaranteed) prospects to snag him last summer. smg58 Feb 04 2009 09:57 AM I agree that Nady would help the team. But if you pass on Wigginton (who's all those things you mentioned, plus a better outfielder, can play more positions, is more or less the same hitter, is getting less money over two years than Nady is over one, and wouldn't have cost players), I don't see how you justify getting Nady instead. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 04 2009 10:13 AM Omar amid saying the Mets were done and ready to go to war etc etc suggested they'd be looking for right-handed pinch hitters thru spring training, so youneverknow Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2009 09:07 AM ="Newsday.com"] Mets now targeting righthanded hitter for bench BY KEN DAVIDOFF ken.davidoff@newsday.com 9:53 PM EST, February 4, 2009 The Mets, their major offseason goals achieved, will next target a righthanded hitter for their bench, a person familiar with the situation said yesterday. Some Mets officials like free agent Rich Aurilia, who has ties to both New York and general manager Omar Minaya. As of yesterday, however, the Mets had yet to reach out to Aurilia's agent, Barry Axelrod, according to Axelrod. Aurilia, 37, was born in Brooklyn and played for Xaverian High School there and then St. John's. When the Rangers selected him in the 24th round of the 1992 amateur draft, Minaya was part of Texas' front office. A former All-Star shortstop, Aurilia played in 83 games as the Giants' first baseman, 63 as their third baseman and one at second base in 2008. He put up a .332 on-base percentage and .413 slugging percentage. Against lefthanded pitching, those numbers ballooned to .377 and .526. Axelrod said that the Phillies and Giants have pursued Aurilia the most aggressively. Other available, veteran righty bats on the free-agent market include Nomar Garciaparra, Kevin Millar, former Met Jay Payton, Jose Vidro (a switch hitter) and, if the Mets are feeling masochistic, Moises Alou. The Mets have some interest in picking through the free-agent crop of lefty relievers -- Joe Beimel, Will Ohman and Ron Villone are among those still available -- but they believe they have viable non-roster options in Casey Fossum and Tom Martin. As first reported by The New York Post, the Mets are interested in trading catcher Ramon Castro and the $2.5 million owed him for 2009 and replacing him with Robinson Cancel. The Brewers discussed Castro internally -- Milwaukee general manager Doug Melvin consulted his new bench coach, former Mets manager Willie Randolph -- and opted against such a deal. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 05 2009 09:12 AM How about that? Willie sez no to Castro -- not man enough. Is Davidoff too dumb to know that Keilty ought to be in that RH bench-bat conversation also? I wouldn;t mind bringing in a guy like Aurelia to provide some competition. DocTee Feb 05 2009 09:15 AM FWIW, Aurilia is an awesome person...involved in lots of charitable causes in the Bay Area and is a beloved here as if he were a "true Yanqui" in Da Bronx. Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 09:18 AM I don't think Davidoff is ignoring that, so much as looking at the fish still out there, knowing that the Mets are still fishing for righty bats. I don't know if Aurilia is still a viable infielder, but he could bring relative versatility along with his righthanded bat, whereas Kielty could bring relative youth and beauty. DocTee Feb 05 2009 09:49 AM If it's beauty you want, Aurilia's your (wo)man: [url:hqe2z5js]http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://graphics.ink19.com/magazine/interviews/raquel.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.ink19.com/issues/september2006/interviews/raquelAurilia.html&usg=__6M3HaNMFvmuGhhEDIKh1GM0hlTo=&h=264&w=175&sz=11&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=Rfe5plkM1PpwpM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drich%2Baurilia%2Bwife%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4HPIA_enUS312%26sa%3DN[/url:hqe2z5js] Vic Sage Feb 05 2009 10:09 AM current bench (assuming a 7-man pen, and a 5-man bench): 1) castro (rh) - C 2) Tatis (rh)- corner IF/OF [platooning with Murphy (lh)] 3) Alex Cora (lh) - MI 4) Marlon Anderson (lh) - IF/OF 5) Jeremy Reed (lh) - Of - Cory Sullivan (lh) - OF - B.Kielty (rh) - Of I would like to see Kielty take Anderson's job, and have Anderson duke it out with Reed and Sullivan for the LHed PH/OF slot. Of course, if Aurillia can still play MI, he'd be a more valuable asset, giving the bench more flexibility. smg58 Feb 05 2009 11:10 AM Aurilia won't kill you with the glove, not that he's particularly good at a position at this point in his career. He could spell Delgado against some lefties, but he would leave Church with no righthanded backup.

There is apparantly a second rally this week.