stevejrogers

="Benjamin Grimm"]This morning I looked into ordering a Mets yearbook online, since the soonest I'll be able to get out to Citi Field is May 31, if then. It's not listed on the Mets website in their "Publications" section. (They do have a few DVD packages where Hall of Famers get a 10 per cent discount. Would I be able to get a discount by pretending to be Johnny Bench? Strange.) Anyway, I did find some listings on eBay. One seller has the bidding up to $51 for a "mint condition" 2009 Mets yearbook. Huh? Are the bidders nuts? Or are Mets yearbooks this year a rare commodity? I'd say nuts category based on the whole "First Year" scenario with Citi Field. No reason why the Mets will make this years edition a rareity. Unless they know something we don't and major changes are coming, but since I doubt the Mets are going to make a Revised Edition this year (they haven't in more than a decade now), the book you get tonight, was the same as you got Opening Night, and the same as you should get the final game this year.

]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise?

Give it up for David Wright's agent!

Mets Reyes SS Murphy LF Wright 3B Delgado 1B Beltran CF Church RF Castro C Castillo 2B Perez P Cardinals Ryan 2B Ankiel CF Pujols 1B Ludwick RF Molina C Duncan LF Greene SS Thurston 3B Wellemeyer P

So the player's name is going to be linked in the banner going forward, or is this just a random "hey it's Cliff, why not" sort of thing?

From Cerrone of MetsBlog.com ]A team spokesman just told me the Mets plan to move Doc Gooden�s autograph from the wall in the Ebbetts Club, �where only a select group of fans can see it,� to a more prominent location, �where all fans can see it.� In addition, it will be part of a �Mets Wall-of-Fame,� so to speak, in which other notable players from the team�s past will be asked to sign the wall, and dedicate messages to fans, on days when they first visit Citi Field. Lastly, the team is aware of fan response, and intends to make various announcements over then next few weeks with regards to adding Mets-centric items to the new ballpark.

Swan Swan H wrote: Is that what the problem was? Thanks. Now I can toss all those old copies of the Daily News I've been meaning to read since 2005. No need for the sarcasim. Thought you just didn't follow the on going saga of Carl Pavano's time in MFY Land.

Tried to find the old thread, but couldn't, so I made a new one. This piqued my interest: ]DAVE MARSHALL mets gal April 3, 2009 In the early 80s, Dave was a bartender at a place called Profiles on E. 79th St. He was adorable and was always very focused on how good his hair looked - I guess it's because it was always hidden under his cap. Rumor has it that he was the inspiration for the character of Sam Malone on Cheers. Don't know if that's true but it would make sense. Quick Google search easily debunks that rumor, and finds a rather interesting tale of current economic times: http://www.nypost.com/seven/03112009/news/regionalnews/its_last_call_for_cheers_barman_158984.htm Of course not a direct interpretation by any stretch, but that should clear that one up.

Swan Swan H wrote: I guess Carl Pavano can pitch at Yankee Stadium after all. Indians 3-1, end of six. The problem wasn't that he couldn't pitch at Yankee Stadium (or whatever variation of "He can't handle NY or big pressure" you want to use), the problem was he was often injuried, and usually with some maladay that most fans think players should play through.

Never mind...

="SteveJRogers":2xbk0gxs]While it means jack squat, it would be kind of nice to see someone trotting around the bases in a Met uni when montages of 500th homers is shown. [/quote:2xbk0gxs] But did it HAVE to be in the black uni? UGH! willpie Apr 18 2009 08:59 AM Didn't think I was going to like Sheff that quickly. #500 was pretty clutch, though, and a cooler moment than I was expecting. Ashie62 Apr 18 2009 02:54 PM Sheff seems to have mellowed..Seems like he can add a certain fear factor to opponents that was missing in 07-08 Elster88 Apr 19 2009 10:38 AM ="SteveJRogers":hu4dho3l]="SteveJRogers":hu4dho3l]While it means jack squat, it would be kind of nice to see someone trotting around the bases in a Met uni when montages of 500th homers is shown. [/quote:hu4dho3l] But did it HAVE to be in the black uni? UGH![/quote:hu4dho3l] Stop pandering. Elster88 Apr 19 2009 10:38 AM ="willpie":1i8rx6oj]Didn't think I was going to like Sheff that quickly. #500 was pretty clutch, though, and a cooler moment than I was expecting.[/quote:1i8rx6oj] Agree! Elster88 Apr 19 2009 10:39 AM ="Ashie62":16p1k8iu]Sheff seems to have mellowed..Seems like he can add a certain fear factor to opponents that was missing in 07-08[/quote:16p1k8iu] Agree on both counts. I just don't think I want him starting over Church when Church is OPSing over a thousand. That's on Jerry. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 11:59 AM ="Elster88":35zbx1nh]Stop pandering.[/quote:35zbx1nh] It's not pandering. The Mets desperately need to get rid of those uniforms.

="Edgy DC":3bv20q2o]It strikes me that, with the destruction of Shea Stadium, and all the good karma that went with it, the site of the Yankees final championship went also.[/quote:3bv20q2o] Heh. Come to think of it, Dodger Stadium, site of the 1978 clincher, is the only site of a Yankee World Series clincher still in operation as a baseball stadium. The Chargers are still using the Murph (1998) for the time being, and the 49ners are still using Candlestick (1962), also for the time being, and of course RMFY still, for the most part, stands. A Boy Named Seo Apr 17 2009 11:29 AM ="SteveJRogers":2k81hvue] I'm sure the Lakers do the same thing in terms of their history at the Forum, despite now sharing the Staples Center with the lowly Clippers.[/quote:2k81hvue] Watch your mouth, Rogers.

="metirish":2tw6uyhk]The MFY's probably wouldn't admit to that , the ghosts and all that moved across the street...it's the kind of BS they are selling. The Montreal Canadians haven't won a damn thing since they moved out of the Montreal Forum but they still like to try and sell the idea that the ghosts et al moved with them, the NHL tries to peddle that BS too. I wish the MFY's a similar fate in their new home.[/quote:2tw6uyhk] Ditto with the Celtics...well until they finally won the championship last year. I'm sure the Lakers do the same thing in terms of their history at the Forum, despite now sharing the Staples Center with the lowly Clippers. SteveJRogers Apr 17 2009 10:43 AM Re: It strikes me ="Edgy DC":3bv20q2o]It strikes me that, with the destruction of Shea Stadium, and all the good karma that went with it, the site of the Yankees final championship went also.[/quote:3bv20q2o] Heh. Come to think of it, Dodger Stadium, site of the 1978 clincher, is the only site of a Yankee World Series clincher still in operation as a baseball stadium. The Chargers are still using the Murph (1998) for the time being, and the 49ners are still using Candlestick (1962), also for the time being, and of course RMFY still, for the most part, stands. A Boy Named Seo Apr 17 2009 11:29 AM ="SteveJRogers":2k81hvue] I'm sure the Lakers do the same thing in terms of their history at the Forum, despite now sharing the Staples Center with the lowly Clippers.[/quote:2k81hvue] Watch your mouth, Rogers.

="Frayed Knot":19l33kqw] Always struck me as more than a bit of a coincidence that Yogi's return was right around the time he was starting up that whole museum/side business thing (come see my new tribute to me -- contributions welcome). [/quote:19l33kqw] I'd agree with that. Adds more credibiltiy if there were ties between that place in Upper Montclair and the team Berra was a big contributor to for many championships. No doubt his family (his sons actually run the joint) pushed that angle. metsguyinmichigan Apr 17 2009 10:49 AM It's just poor reporting to point out that Seaver was paid, but not mention anyone else. If it's important enough to mention about Seaver, then it's important for the rest of them, too. I'll send him an e-mail to see if he bites. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:54 AM It's always nice to to see Sports Illustrated's one true wanker, Jon Heyman, come back to wanking. But just so everyone understands, he's paid for this nonsense. Farmer Ted Apr 17 2009 11:19 AM I have more respect for Ray Barone. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:47 AM ="Farmer Ted"]I have more respect for Ray Barone. Well, everybody loves him. smg58 Apr 18 2009 05:30 AM ="metirish":33x6skjj]I would think that is standard operating procedure .[/quote:33x6skjj] Paying Seaver for the appearance, or Heyman making cheap shots at the Mets? Kong76 Apr 18 2009 06:41 AM Hay Man: But just so everyone understands, he's paid for these appearances <<< You, over there, the one who didn't understand .... Together with me .... No shit, Jon metsguyinmichigan Apr 18 2009 07:27 AM His reply to my e-mail: i only knmew about seaver. i don't know about the others. that's the only reason i only mentioned seaver. thanks, jh I'm going to use this as part of a lesson in my journalism class. Fman99 Apr 18 2009 08:49 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3uln17i6]His reply to my e-mail: i only knmew about seaver. i don't know about the others. that's the only reason i only mentioned seaver. thanks, jh I'm going to use this as part of a lesson in my journalism class.[/quote:3uln17i6] I will use it in my wankerism class. (It's more of a self-study though). Edgy DC Apr 18 2009 09:02 PM Jon, You mentioned Seaver to be a creep. Love, Edgy John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 18 2009 09:05 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":2o37fzw1]His reply to my e-mail: i only knmew about seaver. i don't know about the others. that's the only reason i only mentioned seaver. thanks, jh [/quote:2o37fzw1] Yeah, "I didn't know" is exactly what you want to hear from a reporter. metirish Apr 18 2009 09:57 PM Heyman is not good with email exchanges , Edgy and he had one years ago and Heyman got creamed. Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 05:48 AM To be honest, I'm not so porud of that one. He was a jerk, and his perspective was skewed, but the main thing he was arguing that the Mets do was to acquire some big righthanded stud of the year closer from the Marlins. Now, I hate the when a columnist denounces a cheapo team for not spending on big shot acqusitions with brand names , and then turn around and mock the team when such players become white elephants. It's basically skeetshooting. But by mid-season, when Looper had broken down, it looked like, yeah, we needed another righthanded closer. G-Fafif Apr 19 2009 09:13 AM Two years ago, when the Steinbrenner son-in-law divorce was a big story and it was mentioned that George's daughter could be part of the next generation running the Yankees (though Der Boss didn't believe in letting ladies do something like that), Heyman wrote of George's daughter, "she may be blonde, but she's not dumb" or words to that effect. I wrote to him to express my dismay that he'd indulge the "dumb blonde" stereotype so reflexively, that any blonde woman who wasn't "dumb" was an anomaly (my mother, my sister and my wife were/are all blonde, so consider it a personal affront never mind lousy writing). He wrote back pretty quickly that yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have done that. Of course we're not many steps, if we care to take purposefully large Wally Matthews-type strides, from Tom Seaver gets paid to appear and Jon Heyman instinctively trends to dumb blonde references to his dragging the blonde Mrs. Seaver into all this and maybe she's still jealous that Ruth Ryan's husband gets paid more to appear in places. If a modern-day columnist picked up that gauntlet, Dick Young would heartily approve.

="gerrard00":30gtz9o1]...why bother going to my seat? I prefer standing anyway, so I plan on spending a good chunk of my time just watching from the field level walk way. The team should really consider selling standing room only seats.[/quote:30gtz9o1] My brother-in-law and myself did that exact thing Monday night. After the top of the second, we went down for some Bluesmoke food, wandered around the CF area for a bit, and caught the last four innings from some SRO area down the LF line on the Prom. metirish Apr 16 2009 08:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":130b4kzg]Reportedly they're going to but didn't want to start doing so immediately until the place got a few weeks under its belt and they had a better idea of how the foot traffic goes etc.[/quote:130b4kzg] I really like this idea, is this for real? seawolf17 Apr 16 2009 09:01 AM Why wouldn't they sell SRO tickets? It's more money for them. metirish Apr 16 2009 09:03 AM I guess that's why there is no room for busts , a paying patron could be in that spot.

40 years ago this October, they were the World Champions of Major League Baseball, 40 years later, where are they now? The 2009 Mets Yearbook went and found out: Yogi Berra Upper Montclair, NJ Owner Yogi Berra Museum Ken Boswell Austin, TX Rancher Ed Charles Queens, NY Retired Jack DiLauro Malvern, OH Consultant for Hudson Capital LLC Duffy Dyer Phoenix, AZ Minor League Catching Instructor for the Padres Bobby Pfeil Stockton, CA Apartment Renovations Wayne Garrett Sarasota, FL Florida Irrigation, supplies water systems for golf courses Gary Gentry Phoenix, AZ Director of Retirement Home Rod Gaspar Mission Viejo, CA Owner World Series Associates money management firm Jerry Grote Belton, TX Owner Texas Java Coffee House Bud Harrelson Hauppauge, NY Co-Owner of the LI Ducks Cleon Jones Mobile, AL Retired Jerry Koosman Osceola, WI Retired Ed Kranepool Jericho, NY IRN Credit Card Processing J.C. Martin Advance, NC Retired Jim McAndrew Fountain Hills, AZ Retired Joe Pignatano Brooklyn, NY Retired Nolan Ryan Dallas, TX President of the Rangers Tom Seaver Calistoga, CA Vineyard owner Art Shamsky New York, NY Author Ron Swoboda New Orleans, LA Radio & TV Announcer for the Zephyrs Ron Taylor Toronto, CA Team Physician for the Blue Jays Al Weis Elmhurst, IL Retired Eddie Yost Wesley, MA Retired And naturally they give a little RIP shout out to: Gil Hodges, Rube Walker, Cal Koonce,Tommie Agee, Donn Clendenon, Tug McGraw and Don Cardwell.

="Kong76"]SJR: Hell, it says more about the type of crowd that GOES to opening day than anything to do with the stadiums themselves <<< This was the first opening day I've missed since like 1994 ... what kind of fan was I all those years and what type of crowd did I fall in with? And not to throw it in your face, but I do like to join in on Stevierazzin', you told me that going to opening day with tickets at your disposal was up to a coin flip and I'm guessing you lost ... or did you not want to hang with that type of crowd? I'd say we're both in the unlucky crowd if ya gotta put a type on it. Kase, I was there Monday night, but you darn know that I wasn't talking about me and you, and that I meant the non fan or causal fan. The fan that wouldn't know your handle is a reference to Dave Kingman. The fan that wouldn't know Steve Rogers the ex-Expo from the secret identity of Captain America. Okay, those last references are way too dated, but the point still stands even if we were talking Ryan Howard or Roy Halladay. The fan that couldn't rattle off the names of 5 well known Mets through the years, or worse throw up someone who never played for the Mets (curiously, at lunch today a MFY fan was giving me a hard time about ex-Mets who played for the Yankees and listed Rusty Staub. Yeah, HUH?) The fan who is just there because its an event. It is a place to be seen. Sure there are circumstances where you HAVE to check out early for whatever reason on a weeknight (something Wally failed to mention FWIW), but more often than not, I'm sure, it is that type of "wanna be seen" fan that would leave Opening Day (or night) early.

="metsguyinmichigan":1zzgzl7b]I think EVERYBODY is going to wear No. 42 today. Seriously. Except Mariano Rivera. He wants to wear No. 2 to honor Derek Jeter.[/quote:1zzgzl7b] Yeah, the order came from MLB, everyone in uniform will be clad in a NOB #42 jersey. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 11:24 AM I think that everyone should play the game in rubber Jackie Robinson Halloween masks. metirish Apr 15 2009 11:27 AM See the rotunda makes sense on nights like tonight....not as much sense as it would if it were in LA but still. Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2009 11:33 AM Do you really think a Jackie Robinson rotunda would make sense in LA, a city that Jackie never played in? metirish Apr 15 2009 11:36 AM Why not , he played for them. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 11:36 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 15 2009 11:41 AM I do. It makes more sense in LA than having it in the stadium of a team for which Jackie never played for. The LA Dodgers inherited the B'klyn Dodger records. Wee Willie is the all-time Dodger leader in Batting Average. Gary Sheffield had to pass Jackie on his way to becoming the all-time Dodger leader in OBP. FWIW, Jackie attended UCLA. This rotunda is a pet peeve of mine. I like the rotunda, but I believe that the Mets should not be honoring an opponent's athlete in this fashion. Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 11:39 AM It's not worth much. He didn't integrate the NCAA. He integrated MLB. In New York. People are getting beyond silly about this. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 11:44 AM ="Edgy DC":g5xoh8zj]It's not worth much. He didn't integrate the NCAA. He integrated MLB. In New York. People are getting beyond silly about this.[/quote:g5xoh8zj] As a Dodger. (Not to go around in circles on this). Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 11:47 AM Yes, I've heard. It doesn't make the UCLA assertion any less of a red herring. Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2009 11:51 AM Yes, the Giants and Dodgers are in California now, but Mel Ott, Christy Mathewson, John McGraw, Bill Terry, Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Wilbert Robinson, Zach Wheat and all those other guys still belong to New York. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 11:55 AM ="Edgy DC":3h0h7ot7]Yes, I've heard. It doesn't make the UCLA assertion any less of a red herring.[/quote:3h0h7ot7] Yes, my UCLA reference was just filler. But my opinion would stay the same even if Jackie never attended UCLA, or any other California college. Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 11:57 AM Then please don't insult people by playing cards you know are nonsense. Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 12:05 PM ="Edgy DC":1whlhro2]Then please don't insult people by playing cards you know are nonsense. Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest.[/quote:1whlhro2] Insult people? C'mon. Get serious. You're taking this too seriously. I don't have to like this Jackie Robinson Rotunda business just because you do. And besides, although the UCLA reference might be superfluous to my POV, it might not be to someone else. At UCLA, Jackie represented himself with the same level of class and achievement that he would later exhibit as a Dodger. Gwreck Apr 15 2009 12:11 PM TransMonk Apr 15 2009 12:15 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":1rehx0sb]C'mon. Get serious. You're taking this too seriously. [/quote:1rehx0sb] Out of context, this makes me laugh out loud. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 15 2009 12:16 PM ="Gwreck"] That's the image I'll dig out for the game tonight if this Chick Corea guy no hits us for 4 innings Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 12:18 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":2pzqyafl]="Edgy DC":2pzqyafl]Then please don't insult people by playing cards you know are nonsense. Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest.[/quote:2pzqyafl] Insult people? C'mon. Get serious. You're taking this too seriously.[/quote:2pzqyafl] No, honesty isn't too much to ask. ="batmagadanleadoff":2pzqyafl]I don't have to like this Jackie Robinson Rotunda business just because you do.[/quote:2pzqyafl] As I said, "Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest." And it has nothing to do with what I like. Except perhaps that I'd like this forum not to be papered with nonsense, which you acknowledge as such, but nonetheless advances your agenda. I'm even the one who opened up the subject of Jackie Robinson Day, and the overkill of too many uniform tributes, so it's not like I don't get it. ="batmagadanleadoff":2pzqyafl]And besides, although the UCLA reference might be superfluous to my POV, it might not be to someone else. At UCLA, Jackie represented himself with the same level of class and achievement that he would later exhibit as a Dodger.[/quote:2pzqyafl] Give me a break. It may be bait to draw people away from any real issue, but it's nonetheless relevant if people bite? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 15 2009 12:19 PM ="TransMonk":1zk7jiuj]="batmagadanleadoff":1zk7jiuj]C'mon. Get serious. You're taking this too seriously. [/quote:1zk7jiuj] Out of context, this makes me laugh out loud.[/quote:1zk7jiuj] I'm glad I'm not the only one. (Apropos of nothing, I snarfed my soda.) And hell, batmags, if you like the rotunda, just think of it as the Just Plain Rotunda, and pretend the "42" is a Douglas Adams tribute. Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 12:20 PM I apologize for my huge part of this shit. metirish Apr 15 2009 12:21 PM Isn't Chick Corea a singer, I hope he's off key tonight. metirish Apr 15 2009 12:22 PM I apologize for bringing it up , it was nothing more really than a smart ass comment. G-Fafif Apr 15 2009 12:31 PM I like the Rotunda, but I'd like a lot more[/url:3q9n3phx]. G-Fafif Apr 15 2009 01:16 PM Fresh from the Rotunda dedication, Davidoff reports the owner of the Mets plans a Mets HOF. ]Fred Wilpon said the the team is planning on establishing a Mets Hall of Fame, most likely in the centerfield concourse with the high-end food selections and the old Home Run Apple. Also, you'll be thrilled to know, Davidoff learned the Mets got the Red Sox' OK to blast Neil Diamond at the grateful throngs. ]The Mets went so far as to get a blessing from Red Sox ownership before renewing their usage of "Sweet Caroline" as the "eighth-inning song" at Citi Field; the Neil Diamond song has long been a Fenway Park staple. But the fans' massive boos told the whole story. The Mets need to find their own song. They considered Coldplay's "Viva la Vida," which they used during their pre-game introductions Monday night, but decided against it. Remember when the only thing we asked the Red Sox' permission for was when we could borrow their champagne? John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 15 2009 01:23 PM Let's go with Chick Corea's "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs" Listen to this guy play the pianny. Just gorgeous and then, he stretches it out. Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2009 01:26 PM I think the Mets Hall of Fame should be located in Dodger Stadium. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 01:32 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 15 2009 02:30 PM ="Edgy DC":1aroddf7]="batmagadanleadoff":1aroddf7]="Edgy DC":1aroddf7]Then please don't insult people by playing cards you know are nonsense. Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest.[/quote:1aroddf7] Insult people? C'mon. Get serious. You're taking this too seriously.[/quote:1aroddf7] No, honesty isn't too much to ask. ="batmagadanleadoff":1aroddf7]I don't have to like this Jackie Robinson Rotunda business just because you do.[/quote:1aroddf7] As I said, "Believe what you want, but please, at least, be honest." And it has nothing to do with what I like. Except perhaps that I'd like this forum not to be papered with nonsense, which you acknowledge as such, but nonetheless advances your agenda. I'm even the one who opened up the subject of Jackie Robinson Day, and the overkill of too many uniform tributes, so it's not like I don't get it. ="batmagadanleadoff":1aroddf7]And besides, although the UCLA reference might be superfluous to my POV, it might not be to someone else. At UCLA, Jackie represented himself with the same level of class and achievement that he would later exhibit as a Dodger.[/quote:1aroddf7] Give me a break. It may be bait to draw people away from any real issue, but it's nonetheless relevant if people bite?[/quote:1aroddf7] There's not one single dishonest bone in my UCLA reference. It's highly likely, and thus reasonable to assume, that if this Jackie Robinson Rotunda was in Chavez-Ravine, connected to Dodger Stadium -- where it belongs, I believe -- there'd be UCLA references in the Dodgers tribute. The UCLA reference is superfluous to my opinion, not only because it wouldn't change my view, as I already stated, but also, because I wasn't editorializing for the Dodgers to build their own JR Rotunda. Frankly, I could care less what the Dodgers do. I merely opined that the Mets shouldn't honor an opponent -- not that the Dodgers should honor their own. And on that basis, my opinion is just as valid with or without the Bruin nod. I suppose that this is my old-school sensibilies surfacing -- where a baseball player in any uniform other than a Met uniform, is the enemy, and that I'd plunk JR just as easy as I might plunk Tommie Agee in a meaningless Spring Training game if they were opponents and I thought that the situation called for a plunking. I fully realize that here, you might note that JR's contributions transcended the game itself; that there is a larger point to be made by honoring JR with an eponymous Rotunda at Citi, and that the daily battles between two baseball teams are nothing more than tiny points of paint in the grand masterpiece that was JR's life. And you'd be right. Just as right as Grimm was when he noted that JR belongs to NY baseball fans as much as he belongs to anybody else. There's no right answer here, other than that Wilpon owns the Mets and he can do as he wishes. And because there's no right answer here, this discussion won't resolve itself as neatly and as irrefutably as a mathematical proof. But my POV is just as valid as yours is. Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 01:51 PM I never said it wasn't. Ashie62 Apr 15 2009 05:34 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2zuig4gl]I think the Mets Hall of Fame should be located in Dodger Stadium.[/quote:2zuig4gl] It sure fells that way..Makes me pine for Shea all the more Kong76 Apr 15 2009 06:56 PM This list on a certain site needs some major work after tonight ... Larry Elliot Ron Taylor Chuck Taylor Hank Webb Ron Hodges Tom Hall Ron Hodges Roger McDowell Butch Huskey Mo Vaughn G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 07:22 AM Tim Smith, in the Snooze, praises the Rotunda, says in essence that no, you can't have both the Jackie salute and Mets history. You get the former, stop complaining about the latter, you small-minded Mets fans. Jeff Wilpon is Viva Las Vague herein. (How do you build a new ballpark and decide "no room for busts," and I hope he means Luis Castillo.) ]Mets and Citi Field do right by saying, 'and here's to you Mr. Robinson' The day after the Mets christened Citi Field their fans decried the lack of team history in the $850 million ballpark. It had a sterile corporate feel, they said. Where was the homage to World Series victories? Where were the tributes to past Met greats? All those complaints rang hollow Wednesday as the team dedicated the Jackie Robinson Rotunda on the day that Robinson broke Major League Baseball's color barrier 62 years ago. The rotunda is a replica of the one at Ebbets Field, where Robinson played for the Dodgers, and is four times as big. Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, said she didn't spend a lot of time at the Ebbets Field rotunda. It wasn't the time or place where they would hold a meet-and-greet for the Robinsons. She would go right to her seat, where she heard the worst the fans could verbally hurl at her husband. Walking into the Jackie Robinson Rotunda Wednesday afternoon was a near religious experience for Mrs. Robinson. "It's kind of a spiritual thing," she said. "It's like being at St. John's Cathedral in Rome. I was so moved. I don't think everybody will feel that way." Certainly not those short-sighted fans who want monuments to past Mets glory in place pronto. The Mets are to be commended for conceiving and constructing the Jackie Robinson Rotunda, which extols the nine virtues that Robinson lived by: Justice, teamwork, determination, persistence, courage, excellence, citizenship, commitment and integrity. In the modern game, as in much of modern life, those virtues seem outdated. Director Spike Lee, who attended the dedication ceremony, said Robinson's legacy remains as significant today as it did when he stepped onto Ebbets Field 62 years ago, enduring the crushing social pressure and still succeeding. "Jackie and Branch Rickey knew if they were not successful in this so-called race experiment that this would set African-Americans back 10-15 years no matter what field we're talking about," Lee said. "We're talking about in all fields - science, politics, not just sports." It is hard for modern-day players to even imagine what Robinson endured to play baseball. "I can't believe he went through that kind of stuff (racists taunts)," said Jose Reyes. "It's just crazy to me. But it just shows how strong he was in mind to go through it and still play." Reyes said he has not visited the rotunda yet, but he said he has always drawn inspiration from Robinson. "Just to see the way that he played the game, the fact that he never gave up and he was always working hard," Reyes said. "He showed that you can never hang your head, and that you have to be strong every day." Fred Wilpon, the Mets chairman and CEO, was 16 when he played a game at Ebbets Field, and those nine virtues that Robinson espoused were alive inside the clubhouse. The Mets are the closest touchstone to Jackie Robinson (the National League replacement in New York for the departed Dodgers and Giants), so Wilpon knew he wanted to honor Robinson when they decided to build a new ballpark, particularly if the new place would include elements of Ebbets Field. Jeff Wilpon, the Mets' COO, said Mets fans who desire a more grand tribute to former Mets greats will get their wish soon. "We have some banners that will go up. We have some plaques that will go up," Jeff Wilpon said. "We have some retired numbers. We don't have room to do busts like we did before, but we're going to do some Hall of Fame plaques. We have some other things that we're going to do." Fred Wilpon said the Jackie Robinson Rotunda doesn't trump anything that the Mets will do in the future to honor their own history, but he believes the rotunda is a significant symbol in its own right. He's absolutely correct. By displaying the virtues on the walls and floor of the rotunda, baseball fans who enter Citi Field will at least be reminded that Robinson lived by them, and by smashing Major League Baseball's color barrier, he forced the sport, and America, to live by them as well. Baseball isn't such a virtuous place right now. It is still trying to come to grips with the blight of steroids and the taint of street agents and scouts skimming the signing bonuses of some Dominican players. And for the first time since 1995, there was an increase (2%) in the number of African-American players on major league rosters this season, according to a report released yesterday by Richard Lapchick, director of the University of Central Florida's Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports. "I feel encouraged. It's not a huge leap, but a step forward," said Rachel Robinson. "We have to feel encouraged, also inspired by the progress." The Mets have an African-American manager, Jerry Manuel, and just one African-American player, Gary Sheffield, who was starting his first game in right field Wednesday night and was looking for his 500th home run. The Mets don't yet have an homage to their history as grand and glorious as the Yankees in their new home. But they have done them one better by creating a permanent monument to the legacy of Jackie Robinson. "By doing this, the permanence of this, this is not a traveling exhibition at a museum, this is a welcoming mat that he should have had back in the day when he came into baseball," said Jeff Wilpon. metirish Apr 16 2009 07:25 AM Jeff seems very enthusiastic about this. I can't wait to see the results. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2009 07:40 AM Jeff is a complete tool. I can;t be the only one who gets that impression. I sorta see him as a Vince McMahon type. metirish Apr 16 2009 07:44 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":tzgvm407]Jeff is a complete tool. I can;t be the only one who gets that impression. I sorta see him as a Vince McMahon type.[/quote:tzgvm407] Oh I'm with you , I was being sarcastic....you know he has season tickets in the Pepsi Porch , it reminds him of Tiger Stadium..... Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 07:45 AM ="G-Fafif":9s02mgja]Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, said she didn't spend a lot of time at the Ebbets Field rotunda. It wasn't the time or place where they would hold a meet-and-greet for the Robinsons. She would go right to her seat, where she heard the worst the fans could verbally hurl at her husband.[/quote:9s02mgja] Was Robinson regularly abused with "the worst" at Ebbets field? G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 07:53 AM ="Edgy DC":uaz5b2d8]="G-Fafif":uaz5b2d8]Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, said she didn't spend a lot of time at the Ebbets Field rotunda. It wasn't the time or place where they would hold a meet-and-greet for the Robinsons. She would go right to her seat, where she heard the worst the fans could verbally hurl at her husband.[/quote:uaz5b2d8] Was Robinson regularly abused with "the worst" at Ebbets field?[/quote:uaz5b2d8] When did Ebbets Field move to Cincinnati, St. Louis and Philadelphia? Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 07:57 AM Well, if it could move to Queens... Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 08:05 AM ] ... we don't have room to do busts like we did before Because lord knows how much room those things take up. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 08:08 AM So what's happening to the busts? Is MeiGray selling them? Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:10 AM I'm planning another night raid. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:21 AM ="Frayed Knot"]] ... we don't have room to do busts like we did before Because lord knows how much room those things take up. I thought that quote was disturbing, myself. If there's no room for busts, then there can't be much room for a Mets HOF done right. It's Hot dogs over History. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:27 AM How about here: HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:27 AM What makes being a Met fan who wants honors, monuments, and tributes to his team in their stadium "short-sighted"? HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:29 AM Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:31 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3fm5ql4w]Yes, the Giants and Dodgers are in California now, but Mel Ott, Christy Mathewson, John McGraw, Bill Terry, Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Wilbert Robinson, Zach Wheat and all those other guys still belong to New York.[/quote:3fm5ql4w] One of the flaws in this otherwise valid point is that the NY Giant fans probably hated the B'klyn Dodgers -- even more than we might hate the MFY's, given that the old NY rivals played each other 18 times a season. Ironically, if not fittingly, I seem to be in the minority on this one, though. HahnSolo Apr 16 2009 08:31 AM ="Edgy DC":3kwmr6o7]How about here: [/quote:3kwmr6o7] Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? Well, at least the cord is blue. batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 08:34 AM ="HahnSolo":3dt3qv7d]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3dt3qv7d] They probably don't want to "waste" the real estate on something that won't generate additional income. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:38 AM ="HahnSolo":2hnipag0]="Edgy DC":2hnipag0]How about here: [/quote:2hnipag0] Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? Well, at least the cord is blue.[/quote:2hnipag0] I like how Alyssa's target audience --- dyed hair, perm, tight jeans --- is walking by without turning her head, while dorkus from New Yorkus in his backward cap/ski-cap/yarmulke is wandering in to check out the insignia thongs. Hopefully, the boutique won't last the season. seawolf17 Apr 16 2009 08:51 AM "WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR THE BUSTS?!?!??" Are you effing kidding me, Jeff? Screw you! You built a whole goddam building and you can't find room to honor your own Hall of Fame busts? No wonder Wally Matthews hates this team. ="HahnSolo":3ngiw1aa]What makes being a Met fan who wants honors, monuments, and tributes to his team in their stadium "short-sighted"?[/quote:3ngiw1aa] Exactly! God, I hate this shit. metirish Apr 16 2009 08:57 AM " We do have room for one bust " Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 09:09 AM This is a work in progress, and Jeff has shown himself to be a reactive manager. Why don't we give him something to react to? G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 10:19 AM Sometimes I'm surprised they had room for the actual Mets. MFS62 Apr 16 2009 10:39 AM ="G-Fafif":3129gw3s]Sometimes I'm surprised they had room for the actual Mets.[/quote:3129gw3s] As long as they were all a different height. Later Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 10:39 AM ]Are the throngs so large at Touch that they need the blue rope to keep people in line? OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? metsguyinmichigan Apr 16 2009 11:47 AM This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. Didn't like the style. And I wonder if creating a bust like that was expensive and difficult, and slowed down the number of inductions. And I didn't like that it wasn't readily accessible to a lot of fans. And the writing on the display cases was ugly. I love the idea of a hall of fame, and think there absolutely needs to be one. Cleveland and Philly both have neat areas in centerfield with the kind of plaques that I imagine Jeff is talking about. Lots of people walk through the area, and each plaque tells why the person on it is important. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, [url:3o4t75mg]http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/ballpark/heritage_park.jsp[/url:3o4t75mg] then I'm OK with that. Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well. seawolf17 Apr 16 2009 11:56 AM Word on the street is that YSIII has a wall of autographed baseballs from as many living MFYs as they could find. I think that's a phenomenal idea, and I wish the Mets had thought of it first. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 12:25 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1l6s2tnk]Didn't like the style. And I wonder if creating a bust like that was expensive and difficult, and slowed down the number of inductions.[/quote:1l6s2tnk] I suspect managerial indifference slowed it down, but benign neglect has perhaps been better than misguided engagement. My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:04 PM ="seawolf17":2pflv7ph]Word on the street is that YSIII has a wall of autographed baseballs from as many living MFYs as they could find. I think that's a phenomenal idea, and I wish the Mets had thought of it first.[/quote:2pflv7ph] Saw it on the YEECH pregame show and, yeah, it's a brilliant idea beautifully executed. They're even summoning family members and whoever they can find to rustle up balls for the departed MFYs. On the other hand, the Mets would appreciate it if you'd stop thinking about Brian Ostrosser while enjoying your world-class Citi Field experience. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:07 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":224d4oqf]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:224d4oqf] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood. G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 01:09 PM ="Edgy DC":1s2trfoy]My main HoF problem was that, in the post-doubleheader era, ceremonies have occurred before game time with the seats scarcely populated. I distinctly remembered being embarassed by the paucity of audience for Jerry Koosman's induction, which may have been Rube Walker's last time on the field.[/quote:1s2trfoy] Since 2000, whenever they do a big event, like '06 reunion or All-Amazin' Team or Ralph Night, they move it back to the start time on the ticket. That way people are indeed in their seats. They didn't do it in '02 for Agee's induction and it was a little depressing. You might recall Seaver criticized Valentine mightily for not having his team in the dugout (they were having a meeting that saved their season, thus that 2002 pennant that flies high and proud over Citi Field). Seaver was correct. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:34 PM Jackie Robinson played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. They are the only team for which a tribute to Jackie would be a perfect fit. Unfortunately, that team doesn't exist anymore. It sucks, but it's reality. Sometimes there are no good answers. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Mets are probably the best options left. Arguments can be given for each team, but for every argument, there is a valid argument against. If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably say the Dodgers are more appropriate. But I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Which brings us to the rotunda. Does it make sense to have a Jackie Robinson tribute be the signature of the Mets new home stadium? And the answer, in my opinion, is no. Whether or not the Dodgers are a more appropriate team, a featuring a Brooklyn Dodger as the centerpiece of the new home of the New York Mets is, at best, awkward. Centerfield Apr 16 2009 01:37 PM ="HahnSolo":3e4tnjsm]Those busts at Shea fit into a display that was smaller than your average walk-in closet.[/quote:3e4tnjsm] Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 01:43 PM Would it make more sense for a statue of Connie Mack to be in Philadelphia or Oakland? Should Walter Johnson be honored in Washington, or in Minneapolis? My votes would go to Philadelphia and Washington. So I think it's more appropriate to honor Jackie Robinson in New York than in Los Angeles. But I think the big rotunda at the Mets ballpark is a bit much. Were it up to me, Citi Field would not look like Ebbets Field. It wouldn't be retro at all. And there would be a nice big memorial to Jackie Robinson in Brooklyn somewhere. Maybe somewhere near the anchorage of the Brooklyn Bridge, so that people could walk there from Manhattan. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 01:48 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2009 04:33 PM What should be noted as part of the rotunda display is that --- as good as he was at baseball, football, and track --- his best sport might have been underwear basketball. Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, that might have been my best sport also. Swan Swan H Apr 16 2009 01:52 PM Michael Jordan's Hanes ads are clearly a tribute to Jackie Robinson's underwear basketball career. Frayed Knot Apr 16 2009 01:53 PM ="Centerfield"]Maybe that's the problem. I like bigger busts. ... and he can not lie. ]Thinking back to my days in Joe Ellner's basement, [underwear basketball] might have been my best sport also. TMI Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:04 PM Who farted? Fman99 Apr 16 2009 04:06 PM ="G-Fafif":1e8206y9]="metsguyinmichigan":1e8206y9]This might get me in a little trouble, and maybe I'm the only one. But to be totally honest, I didn't like the busts. The Mets have a chance here to start from scratch, and if they come up with something like Cleveland's Heritage Park, then I'm OK with that. [...] Ideally, they've have something like the Reds have in Cincy, which is just amazing. But I don't think any other team has done that well.[/quote:1e8206y9] I never thought the busts were optimal, but if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em. I love that, as you pointed out, Cleon the elder is portrayed whereas all the other Famers are in their prime. I like trying to figure out why; I don't necessarily need to know. Add the Baltimore museum, opened a few years ago next to Camden Yards, as something to be studied by the Mets and attended by anybody in the neighborhood.[/quote:1e8206y9] I am a big fan of busts. HahnSolo Apr 17 2009 06:56 AM After my first trip to Citi and the rotunda, my feelings have somewhat changed. I was never a big fan of the entire rotunda being dedicated to Jackie. however, having seen it up close, it is done in a quite classy way, and it is completely un-intrusive. You are not clubbed over the head with Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. It's there, yes, and it is prominent, but you can just as easily avoid it. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:42 AM I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles. themetfairy Apr 17 2009 09:17 AM ="seawolf17":38irfm09]I love fman. He's added a dynamic to the Pool that can't be quantified. He's our own Cap'n Intangibles.[/quote:38irfm09] But way less slimy than the MFY's version. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 11:46 AM Have you met him? Don't count out his sliminess. We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 04:53 PM ="seawolf17"]We did a lot of weird things in the basement of the Blake B Building. A Geneseo guy? cooby Apr 17 2009 09:48 PM Funny, all of it. Kong76 Apr 17 2009 09:52 PM FK: OK who (besides me) read that as thongs so large that they need the blue rope ... ? <<< I thought it was a typo too. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 10:10 PM It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel. MFS62 Apr 18 2009 06:56 AM ="G-Fafif":3jk8wpwh]It never stops amusing me that Fman proclaims his love of big busts and his avatar is of that little angel.[/quote:3jk8wpwh] Don't start getting all sweet on us when this thread was going in an entirely different direction. Later

="G-Fafif"]This reminds me of a column, I don't remember whose, written after Scott Kazmir made his MLB debut in Seattle. The key phrase was something about the Mets blew it, he'd be making his debut at Shea in front of 50,000 if they hadn't. And I was thinking, late in the 2004 season, there's no way Scott Kazmir or anyone short of the Pope draws 50,000 to Shea right now. Not to be statistically literal here, but the idea that if the Mets didn't trade Scott Kazmir his September recall to a lousy team would have generated mass waves of interest (as opposed to an uptick among the curious) was ludicrous. Kazmir became a cause after he was traded. Before, he was a prospect with a moderately high profile among the cognoscenti and no great recognition to the public at large, the kind of thing you'd need to attract the mythic 50,000 to a ballpark solely based on name. Also keep in mind, and this is very telling about Wally, the day the trade was announced, he was in full favor of the trade. Soley because he "knew" who Victor Zambrano was (and only because he was a pitcher on a big league roster, whom I think had some success against the MFYs) and "didn't" know a damn thing about Scott Kazmir. His radio partner at the time, Tom Keegan, thought that the Mets should have drafted Jered Weaver in the draft for the same reason. I sent him a spreadsheet chart of the last highly drafted Met's first season's home starts, Paul Wilson, where it showed no real difference in his starts and the rest of the season's attendance figures. Hell, even Darryl Strawberry in 1983 didn't have quite the impact on attendance that one would have thought, if anything Tom Seaver had a bigger impact in 1983.

="G-Fafif":6tnp5x57]The "faithful" did stay to the bitter end at Shea, but there were plenty who were faithless on a given night, skedaddling by the seventh and staying away in droves at the threat of rain. Not saying they didn't have good reasons and responsibilities, but let's not kid ourselves. Spent many an eighth and ninth inning there the last few years in relative solitude.[/quote:6tnp5x57] Excellent point Greg. Not that it excuses that kind of behavior, but it isn't like this is some brand new concept that just started with the new stadium. Hell, it says more about the type of crowd that GOES to opening day than anything to do with the stadiums themselves. I don't have it in front of me, but what did you say about the comparision between the opening day crowd and the closing day crowd? Opening Day is more for those looking to go to an "event" while the closing day is more for the baseball diehards. SteveJRogers Apr 15 2009 11:08 AM ="G-Fafif"]This reminds me of a column, I don't remember whose, written after Scott Kazmir made his MLB debut in Seattle. The key phrase was something about the Mets blew it, he'd be making his debut at Shea in front of 50,000 if they hadn't. And I was thinking, late in the 2004 season, there's no way Scott Kazmir or anyone short of the Pope draws 50,000 to Shea right now. Not to be statistically literal here, but the idea that if the Mets didn't trade Scott Kazmir his September recall to a lousy team would have generated mass waves of interest (as opposed to an uptick among the curious) was ludicrous. Kazmir became a cause after he was traded. Before, he was a prospect with a moderately high profile among the cognoscenti and no great recognition to the public at large, the kind of thing you'd need to attract the mythic 50,000 to a ballpark solely based on name. Also keep in mind, and this is very telling about Wally, the day the trade was announced, he was in full favor of the trade. Soley because he "knew" who Victor Zambrano was (and only because he was a pitcher on a big league roster, whom I think had some success against the MFYs) and "didn't" know a damn thing about Scott Kazmir. His radio partner at the time, Tom Keegan, thought that the Mets should have drafted Jered Weaver in the draft for the same reason. I sent him a spreadsheet chart of the last highly drafted Met's first season's home starts, Paul Wilson, where it showed no real difference in his starts and the rest of the season's attendance figures. Hell, even Darryl Strawberry in 1983 didn't have quite the impact on attendance that one would have thought, if anything Tom Seaver had a bigger impact in 1983. batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2009 11:26 AM At this point, does a Wally Matthews column merit thoughtful analytical review? This is a farce. metirish Apr 15 2009 11:28 AM I thought Wally might be gone when James Dolan bought Newsday but Wally is exactly the kind of moron that Dolan would like. Farmer Ted Apr 15 2009 01:23 PM The guy is so full of optimism it's contagious. Wally Matthews, dog kicker. Ashie62 Apr 15 2009 05:35 PM It ain't Shea.. Kong76 Apr 15 2009 06:48 PM SJR: Hell, it says more about the type of crowd that GOES to opening day than anything to do with the stadiums themselves <<< This was the first opening day I've missed since like 1994 ... what kind of fan was I all those years and what type of crowd did I fall in with? And not to throw it in your face, but I do like to join in on Stevierazzin', you told me that going to opening day with tickets at your disposal was up to a coin flip and I'm guessing you lost ... or did you not want to hang with that type of crowd? I'd say we're both in the unlucky crowd if ya gotta put a type on it. SteveJRogers Apr 15 2009 07:19 PM ="Kong76"]SJR: Hell, it says more about the type of crowd that GOES to opening day than anything to do with the stadiums themselves <<< This was the first opening day I've missed since like 1994 ... what kind of fan was I all those years and what type of crowd did I fall in with? And not to throw it in your face, but I do like to join in on Stevierazzin', you told me that going to opening day with tickets at your disposal was up to a coin flip and I'm guessing you lost ... or did you not want to hang with that type of crowd? I'd say we're both in the unlucky crowd if ya gotta put a type on it. Kase, I was there Monday night, but you darn know that I wasn't talking about me and you, and that I meant the non fan or causal fan. The fan that wouldn't know your handle is a reference to Dave Kingman. The fan that wouldn't know Steve Rogers the ex-Expo from the secret identity of Captain America. Okay, those last references are way too dated, but the point still stands even if we were talking Ryan Howard or Roy Halladay. The fan that couldn't rattle off the names of 5 well known Mets through the years, or worse throw up someone who never played for the Mets (curiously, at lunch today a MFY fan was giving me a hard time about ex-Mets who played for the Yankees and listed Rusty Staub. Yeah, HUH?) The fan who is just there because its an event. It is a place to be seen. Sure there are circumstances where you HAVE to check out early for whatever reason on a weeknight (something Wally failed to mention FWIW), but more often than not, I'm sure, it is that type of "wanna be seen" fan that would leave Opening Day (or night) early. Kong76 Apr 15 2009 07:30 PM Steve with the surprise left. I thought I remembered you were posting in the IGT on Monday but I ain't gonna look. Glad you got there. Rockin' Doc Apr 15 2009 08:29 PM Wally Matthews strikes me as a self absorbed, unenlightened, Yankee shill. The more of his work I subject myself to, the more I end up regretting having done so. Edgy DC Apr 15 2009 08:51 PM After two games, it's a crypt. Of course, at YSIII, that's a good thing. Frayed Knot Apr 15 2009 09:04 PM ="Rockin' Doc":15fno8yn]Wally Matthews strikes me as a self absorbed, unenlightened, Yankee shill. The more of his work I subject myself to, the more I end up regretting having done so.[/quote:15fno8yn] Not a Yanqui shill, merely a self-appointed curmudgeon. And while curmudgeon-ing certainly has a long and useful history in newspapers, as time goes on his version just seems more gimmicky and contrarian than anything else. More schtick, iow, than towards any useful purpose. Kong76 Apr 15 2009 09:11 PM He's a jilted Mets' fan. One of those Sell The Team NOW!!! guys from back in the day. (that's my opinion, I have no evidence, but I'm right) G-Fafif Apr 16 2009 05:14 AM ="SteveJRogers"]or worse throw up someone who never played for the Mets (curiously, at lunch today Whatever the original point of this message, the idea of throwing up someone who never played for the Mets, at lunch, would have to be worse. Particularly with Jerry Coleman in town and Rich Folkers having played for the Mets. metsmarathon Apr 16 2009 08:05 AM lets see... which one looks more like a mausoleum...? Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 08:16 AM The first step is admitting you're a tomb. Rockin' Doc Apr 16 2009 06:00 PM The Indians bury the Yankees under an avalanche of runs in the opening game of YSIII. So Wally, which NY ballpark is a tomb now? Elster88 Apr 16 2009 07:10 PM Seriously though, the house that roids built does look like a prison in that picture. seawolf17 Apr 17 2009 08:43 AM ="Rockin' Doc":7cmgze6l]The Indians bury the Yankees under an avalanche of runs in the opening game of YSIII. So Wally, which NY ballpark is a tomb now?[/quote:7cmgze6l] No kidding. Where's his story about how the place cleared out in the seventh inning yesterday? Ass. Edgy DC Apr 17 2009 08:55 AM How about a "Yesterday sucked, but that's largely because the Yankees have set impossibly high standards" story? Steinbrenner created a monster -- and a ballpark Wallace Matthews 11:27 PM EDT, April 16, 2009 Thanks a lot, Boss. Of all George Steinbrenner's accomplishments of the past 36 years, this is probably the most remarkable. Despite his reputation as an impossible-to-please taskmaster, he has succeeded in transferring the enormous pressure of winning from his players to his sons and his son-in-law, who now inherit the unenviable chore of keeping it alive. And they must do it not just every season, but every day. The seeds of this were planted in 1975, with the signing of Catfish Hunter, his first major free agent, and a year later with Reggie Jackson. Now, with the yearly payroll having ballooned to more than $200 million dollars, the Boss' garden is overgrown. The current Yankees roster is populated with the latest version of Reggie and Catfish, play-for-high-pay guys whose abundance on this team made such a ballpark not just possible, but necessary. It is the Boss' very own Catch-22: You simply can't charge the kind of prices the Yankees do without fielding a high-end roster, and you can't afford a high-end roster unless you charge the kind of prices the Yankees do. And then, they have to win. Yesterday's 10-2 loss to the Cleveland Indians on Opening Day of the third, and by far most opulent, incarnation of Yankee Stadium did more than merely ruin what had begun as a gala occasion. It also raised the specter of something much uglier, and more unthinkable: What if the Yankees revert to the team they were before Steinbrenner, a brash, unknown shipbuilder from Cleveland, stole them out from under the noses of Mike Burke and CBS in 1973 for the now puny sum of $8.7 million? The year before Steinbrenner took over, the Yankees went 79-76 and drew 966,328 people. Now, they are expected to win more than 90 games and draw four million. In fact, they need to, just to remain profitable. If not, empty seats and empty coffers are sure to follow. The seventh inning of yesterday's game, in which the Indians scored nine runs, including a grand slam by Grady Sizemore, gave a glimpse of that very prospect. To that point, what had been a pitchers' duel turned into a total skulldragging. And what had been a large, festive Opening Day crowd turned into an angry mob as disgusted fans headed for the exits. The good news to report is that the wide concourses and many exits make for a smooth and swift exodus, and that the big ballpark is every bit as gorgeous empty as it is full. But that is where the happy talk ends. Simply put, the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Mets, can't afford to have too many more days like the ones they gave their fans at their openers this year. This year, the Yankees have spent a league-high $200 million on players and $1.3 billion on the Stadium, the Mets a second-highest $149 million on the roster and $850 million on the crib. (Throw in the $500 million the Wilpons reportedly lost to Bernie Madoff and their number comes pretty close to the Yankees.) That is why, while watching the game yesterday, I tried without success to come up with a sobriquet that would effectively capture this ballpark the way "The House That Ruth Built" defined the old one. I toyed with The House That Jorge Built when Posada, like the Babe 86 years before, hit the first Yankees home run in the new park, but I didn't like the sound of it. If the fill-in third baseman had emerged a hero, I would've gone with The House of Ransom, to symbolize when Steinbrenner held the city hostage in the '90s with his baseless threat to move across the river to Jersey. Had the real third baseman been around, I might have christened the new park The House That Juice Built, but unfortunately, the return of Alex Rodriguez is still several weeks away. And when the ticket prices were originally announced, I had already used my personal favorite, The House That Ruthless Built. In truth, there's only one appropriate name for this ballpark -- The House That George Built. He created it and nurtured it. Now, he leaves it to others to figure a way to keep it filled. PiggiesTomatoes Apr 17 2009 02:53 PM I thought the son-in-law was bounced from management once GSS's daughter filed for divorce??? metsguyinmichigan Apr 17 2009 03:00 PM "skulldragging" What the hell is that? Frayed Knot Apr 17 2009 06:19 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2009 08:31 AM ="PiggiesTomatoes":1d5bb52o]I thought the son-in-law was bounced from management once GSS's daughter filed for divorce???[/quote:1d5bb52o] This is son-in-law #3. For years while the brothers were uninterested in having anything to do with the team, older sister's hubby (Joe Molloy) was the guy slated to run things ... then she divorced him. Then the other sister's spouse was anointed as heir-apparent (Steve Swindal) ... then they went splitsville right after he got caught DWI on Valentine's Day at about 4AM). So now this new guy in the mix (Lopez) is first daughter's second husband. Hope you got all that straight cuz there'll be a quiz later. G-Fafif Apr 17 2009 06:22 PM I hear the Yankees suck and Matthews is a tool. OlerudOwned Apr 17 2009 06:53 PM http://www.theonion.com/content/news/mr_met_having_trouble_sleeping_in seawolf17 Apr 21 2009 11:07 AM Look! Wally's picking on the Yankees now! http://www.topix.net/forum/source/newsday/T6ABCQABNDESHS3O8 Well, maybe not. He's picking on Jason Giambi, blaming him exclusively for the MFY's failure to win a WS. Never mind the 209 home runs he hit, or the .900 postseason OPS, or the fact that the REAL thing that all those 2001-2008 seasons have in common are Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, and Mike Mussina, all of whom escape Wally's clutches. (Ignore Jeet's .800 OPS in the postseason since 2001, or Mussina's 5-7 postseason record as a Yankee. It's all Giambi's fault.) Dickhead. Vic Sage Apr 21 2009 11:44 AM ]In truth, there's only one appropriate name for this ballpark -- The House That George Built. In truth, when a German industrialist erects an architectural tribute to the greatness of his folk and the glory of its past, there's only one appropriate name for it -- Nuremberg. G-Fafif Apr 21 2009 12:03 PM I'm a little confused as to why Wally didn't use the occasion of Giambi's visit to blame the Mets for ruining the Yankees by being too cheap to sign him and thus preserve the integrity of the only dynasty New York had to rely on.

="G-Fafif":1ujkcl62]="Frayed Knot":1ujkcl62]The column, in other words, sounds like he came up with the idea first and then tried to shoe-horn into it whatever material he could mine.[/quote:1ujkcl62] Walter Silva not in the media guide is indeed a bit of a reach. [/quote:1ujkcl62] You also won't find potential future HOFer Gary Sheffield in the Mets Media Guide either. Comes with the territory of having roster info from late Feb/early March when you need to produce a massive tome. Should be noted though that Sheffield did make the 2009 Mets Yearbook though, but that's another story. Gwreck Apr 14 2009 04:17 PM The thing that got me about the flyover was the juxtaposition with the Mets talking about how Citi Field was a "green" ballpark. Yes, I know the Mets and the Military are separate entities. But it got me wondering about how much fuel was wasted by doing the flyover. Edgy DC Apr 14 2009 05:22 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2009 06:23 PM I agree that flyovers are seemingly overkill, wasteful, obnoxious, and jingoistic, but what we're talking about here is In ascending order of fulfilling The McCarver Rule ("At every game you will see something, or at least a combination of things, you have never seen before"), here are the top unique or unlikely events from the park's opening... . In fact, the wry observation aside, flyovers at sporting events happen all the time. Nymr83 Apr 14 2009 06:22 PM ]2. Six innings earlier, a stray cat desperately trying to exit the field leaped onto the low fence directly in front of New York Governor David Paterson i was happy to see that the cats made it over from the old building. i didnt even realize that was patterson, but him or someone with him JUMPED scared when that cat came near them.

="metsguyinmichigan"]What spots would you like to see designated? There are several I'd like to see. Mine is simple really: A scale replica of a stage around second base with three gutiarists up front, a drum kit in the back center, and a keyboard off to the first base side. In other words: And my dream would be for this to blare out, within reason, a continous loop of the set from that night, sprinkled in with some era specific tunes.

="metsmarathon"]from today's NY times... "At Shea, the fan who caught Gerut�s homer would have thrown it back. Not here. Too good of a souvenir. " i'm sorry, but i don't believe that foolish behavior has made its way into our city just yet. i mean, does anybody remember a game at shea where an opponent's home run was thrown back onto the field? i had always thought new york fans were at least smart enough to not do that. boo, sure. but throw back a perfectly good souvenir? no way! I agree, I think we'd know about it if it was a tradition at Shea. It's more of a Wrigley thing. Maybe once in a while I'm sure it must have happened, but it isn't something to hang a "tradition" tag on it.

="Farmer Ted":ru7cwiip]Ryan Howard supposedly showing his respect to Harry by taking a puff with Jayson Werth. http://www.totalprosports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ryan-howard-smoking-during-the-pre-game.jpg[/quote:ru7cwiip] All the Phillies took a drag of that as a "respect" thing.

Also the voice of NFL Films, and still was at the time of his passing if I'm not mistaken.