#%@! this!!! - Venting and Overreaction Thread

[Guest cooby]

Wasn't Zack Wheeler off for like 10 years?

[ashie62]

Per todays NJ Advance,

Cespedes a yes for Tuesday.

d'fussy to the DL if not ready tuesday.

[ashie62]

Amed Rosario has 72 PA at Vegas and is hitting .402. He plays shortstop.

[Lefty Specialist]

Ashie62 wrote: Amed Rosario has 72 PA at Vegas and is hitting .402. He plays shortstop.

A tempting morsel for the Panic City crowd. At the very least they wouldn't bring him up before the super-two deadline passes, whenever that is.

[Edgy MD]

A more conservative thought is that, outhitting him down there is Josh Rodriguez. He too plays shortstop.

[smg58]

Neil Walker the Met was at least as good last year as Daniel Murphy the Met had ever been in the regular season. Murphy would have cost us a significant long-term commitment. Walker cost us Jon Niese.

It's fair to ask what we missed regarding both Murphy and Justin Turner, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the GM as opposed to the staff.

The next inning Dilson Herrera plays for the Reds will be his first. His .584 OPS at AAA won't earn him a quick promotion, either. And as bad as the Mets hitting has been, how much worse would it be without Bruce? He did singlehandedly win a game for us last week.

[Frayed Knot]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Amed Rosario has 72 PA at Vegas and is hitting .402. He plays shortstop. A tempting morsel for the Panic City crowd. At the very least they wouldn't bring him up before the super-two deadline passes, whenever that is.

There is no specific deadline or cut-off for arbitration purposes because it depends on the status of all players in his same category.
In Rosario's case (assuming a 2017 call-up) it would depend on how his service time compares to all those in the >2 but < 3 year boat at the end of 2019.
Generally if a team is going to make a call-up decision based on trying to delay future arb-eligibility by a year they'll wait until at least the first week in June. It's not a guarantee but it puts you closer to the safe zone.


Beyond just his BA, almost all of Rosario's hits (23 of 27) have been singles so far. In fact they all were until just a few days ago but I see where he's tacked on 3 doubles and a triple lately.
He also has just 3 walks in 72 PA and still less than 350 ABs above A-ball

Edited April 24, 2017 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

I'm not lamenting the significant long term commitment Murphy would have cost the Mets, especially if it was comparable to what he is costing the Nats. Otherwise, smg58 more or less hit for the cycle in that post above.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If the Mets wait another couple of weeks to call him up, the Mets will have Rosario under their control through 2023. If they wait another 12 months, plus a week or two, they'll have him under control through 2024.

I can't help but think that there are big changes coming before next April. With Duda, Granderson, Bruce, Reyes, and Walker in their walk year, and an option on Cabrera, there will be decisions to be made. Can/would the Mets give starting jobs to Cecchini, Rosario, and Smith all at once? A very risky move to make when you're in win-now mode, a mode which I certainly hope they'll be in for 2018. I can also imagine them importing a speedy center fielder to hit at the top of their lineup for next year.

But of course for now we have to mainly worry about 2017. I wouldn't panic yet; they have good players with good track records. I don't think these past nine-games are necessarily a harbinger of the next 143 games. The Mets have a hole to climb out of, and they may or may not do that, but we shouldn't rule them out any time soon.

[Edgy MD]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can't help but think that there are big changes coming before next April. With Duda, Granderson, Bruce, Reyes, and Walker in their walk year, and an option on Cabrera, there will be decisions to be made.

René Rivera too!

Can/would the Mets give starting jobs to Cecchini, Rosario, and Smith all at once?

Don't forget Nimmo!

My take is that some of these jobs will fall as the year progresses. Conforto has already made himself very difficult to remove from the lineup, no matter how healthy the Mets get. So hopefully, fewer decisions than all that will have to be made in December. And some of them can be half made. A fading but still useful player or two can be re-signed short-term, allowing him to continue defending his playing time as long as he can, while the Ceccchini class continues to try and take it from him.

I think the number of transitions this year will be notable as we look back. It may mean a bad year or it may mean a good one. Changing on the fly is always risky, but one way or another, you end up with fresh legs. And in the Mets' case, money freed up to sign some of the pitchers.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I can see them retaining Cabrera for 2018 (unless he totally breaks down) to help (along with Flores) to transition the infield next year. Especially if they choose to delay the promotion of Rosario until May 1.

[Frayed Knot]

If the Mets wait another couple of weeks to call him up, the Mets will have Rosario under their control through 2023. If they wait another 12 months, plus a week or two, they'll have him under control through 2024.

You're mixing up arbitration eligibility with FA eligibility. The qualifications for each are different.

FA requires six full seasons of ML service time with a full year of service time defined by anything within I think it's 12 days of a full year. The full ML season is, for accounting purposes, 182 days long and players get a day's worth of credit for every day they're up with the big boys.
So if Rosario were to be called up tomorrow and never spend another day in the minors he'd end the 2022 season with 5 full years of service time and about 20 days short of his sixth, but it might as well be 150 days short because, either way, he won't qualify for FA-gency until the end of 2023

Arbitration is different in that while everyone with three years of ST qualifies and no one with only two years does, about 1/6 of those* with more than 2 but less than 3 also qualify, obviously the percentage of those with the most. So 2 years plus 150 days guarantees it and 2 years plus only a handful doesn't, those in between are in the gray area with no set amount since it depends on how they compare to each other.
If the Mets are going to turn to Rosario because Asdrubal goes down or something I don't think the arb situation would matter to them much. The FA date is different as in what the Cubs did with Kris Bryant a few years back deciding that he needed more "seasoning" until calling him up on April 17, 2015. That move pissed Scott Boras off to no end and everyone knew what the Cubs were up to with their decision that he "wasn't ready" on opening day, but there was nothing they could do about it.

FA is obviously the much bigger deal. All delaying Arb does is make the theoretical Year 3 contract less expensive by keeping it under direct team control. And while that's not something those in charge of budgets want to ignore, it has no effect on how long a team can control the player and really only affects the salary for that one year, and even that can be negated by a long-term deal buying out the arb years if the player is any good or not caring if he turns out to suck.



* I think they altered this slightly in the last CBA, so that pct may not be exact.
oe: it's now 22% - so say if in a given year there were 50 players with > 2 but < 3 years of service time, the 11 with the most time would be arb-elgible regardless of exactly when they were first called up or how they accumulated that time

[Benjamin Grimm]

Frayed Knot wrote: You're mixing up arbitration eligibility with FA eligibility. The qualifications for each are different.

I know there's a difference. I don't know the exact dates, but the Mets do have to delay Rosario's callup to delay free agency. So maybe they're already at the point where Rosario has been secured through 2023. I recall seeing delayed callups for Ike Davis and a few other players because of this. And yes, delaying free agency is a much bigger deal than delaying arbitration.

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: For the record, neither our SIGN MURPHY NOW discussion nor the inevitable MEMORIES OF MURPHY thread were chock full of "Go git 'em Sandy!" comments.

These were great re-reads. Good huntin'!

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: A more conservative thought is that, outhitting him down there is Josh Rodriguez. He too plays shortstop.

Rodriguez would be a 32 year old placeholder?

[Edgy MD]

Well, he's certainly no long-term solution.

[Guest 41Forever]

I think it is too early to panic. They didn't get blown out or look overmatched in these games. But I think it's OK to be frustrated when the same damn things happen year after year.

I know Travis is a catcher, and catchers get banged up. It seems like a lot of his injuries are things that happen to him -- like getting hit with a bat -- than his body having an issue. But still, this guy can't stay on the field.

Duda's injuries seem different. He also can't stay on the field. I know he's a beast when he goes on a tear. But at some point you have to think that they have to go with someone who can actually stay healthy.

Cabrera's another guy who when he's healthy is great, but you always hear that he's nursing this injury or that. At least he's on the field. He seems more like an old-time gamer.

I don't know what to think of Cespedes, who also always seems to be nursing some soreness. He's not going anywhere, but I think I can see why those other teams were willing to deal him.

With Travis and Duda, you have the fear that if you give up on them that they'll finally have a season where they stay healthy and have monster years -- like Murphy had last year. But I don't know how many years to keep them, hoping they can have that healthy year.

So, yeah. We can say that we'd have taken some of these games if we had been healthy. But I always wonder if we'll ever see that day.

The shame with Wright is that you, me and everyone else knows that he's probably never going to be healthy again. But he's not at the point where we can get a solid, every day third baseman because that's a sign that the team doesn't think he'll come back -- and he's sitting right there in the dugout.

I get the frustration.

On the bright side, Thor seems smart enough to stay off of whatever Madison Baumgardner was riding.

[Guest d'Kong76]

If they're still sucking in mid-May, I'll vent.

(oh crap 5½ games out, thought it was only like 3)

[Edgy MD]

The Mets have a solid, every-day third baseman. Probably more than one.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I didn't thoroughly read before...

41Forever wrote: The shame with Wright is that you, me and everyone else knows that he's probably never going to be healthy again.

Ok.

41Forever wrote: But he's not at the point where we can get a solid, every day third baseman because that's a sign that the team doesn't think he'll come back -- and he's sitting right there in the dugout.

This is kinda crazy talk, who cares where he sits? He's a Mets'
all-timer, number to be retired, el capitan!... has nothing to do
with whether they can, could or should be looking for someone
to replace someone who is not likely to ever be 'back.'

[Guest 41Forever]

The point wasn't to diss Wright, who is all the things you said and more. But right now we have fill-in guys playing there on the hopes that he will come back. If they went out and got someone established -- like Todd Frazier -- it would be a sign that they'e given up on him being able to come back. That's hard pill to swallow.

[Edgy MD]

I think they'd be just as fine with Wilmer Flores as Todd Frazier. It's just that, well, Flores done got broke. But there's no shortage of quality fallback positions in place going forward.

I mean, they were just as fine with José Reyes last year. And while nobody is really doing as badly as Reyes this year, Todd Frazier is sure as hell close.

[Guest d'Kong76]

41Forever wrote: The point wasn't to diss Wright, who is all the things you said and more. But right now we have fill-in guys playing there on the hopes that he will come back. If they went out and got someone established -- like Todd Frazier -- it would be a sign that they'e given up on him being able to come back. That's hard pill to swallow.

I didn't say you were dissing anyone, I just think your whole point is
a little nutty. Nothing personal, of course.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This is the venting thread at Mets, not at us, I don;t think.

As for Wright he cannot be in realistic plans as a big-ass contributor any more but how big do you need to be to be an upgrade on what Reyes has given us thus far? I thereby strongly support his return to Baseball Activities.

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Really. I mean, I'm sore about Murph, too, but y'all do realize that if the Mets had offered Murph a multiyear deal, then Cespedes wouldn't still be here, right? MY issue with second base is that they cleared the deck, more or less, for Dilson... then flipped him 2/3 of the way through the year for a win-now part.

Good points LWFS. I'd like to think that a NY team coming off of a World Series appearance could afford both but not this ownership.

That's the real shame of it: that the Mets might've wanted to keep Murph, but let him loose because of their finances. Just a reminder, but the Mets offered Murph a QO of $15.8M for 2016. Murph ended up signing with the Nats for an average of $12.5M per season (3 yr/$37.5M contract). It's pathetic that a NY team couldn't afford both Cespedes and the price of Murph's DC contract, which the Mets more than matched for one year.

Oh, and one other thing: Beginning with the 2015 playoffs and going forward up through today, Murph's been better than Cespedes.

[Guest d'Kong76]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This is the venting thread at Mets, not at us, I don;t think.

A 'little nutty' is pretty vanilla for these parts. Putting anyone at third while
Wright is sitting on the bench watching is an oddly written premise. Maybe
I misunderstand what he/she's trying to say. For me, the 'hard pill to swallow'
is the struggle to return knowing/thinking in my heart it's never going to happen.
Again, who cares where he sits. He The Man.

[ashie62]

Originally from the Boston Globe on a Todd Frazier to the Mets trade rumor. Yes Frazier has stunk it up of late. Anyway.

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2017/04/mlb_trade_rumors_njs_todd_frazier_to_mets_idea_res.html#incart_river_index

[G-Fafif]

Here's an overreaction: The Mets have the same record they had after nineteen games in 1993.

They also have the same record they had after nineteen games in 1969, but that's not the season whose nah, they can't be THIS bad start I find myself thinking of the last few days. I remind myself that we have Thor, Jake and Harv...and then I remember twenty-four years ago we had Doc, Sabes and Sid, all ostensibly in their primes.

There's every chance next 143 games will not reflect the previous nine.

[Lefty Specialist]

Now if Cespedes starts flinging firecrackers at people and Noah squirts bleach at reporters, all bets are off.

[Vic Sage]

i don't know why they're so committed to Reyes. They got him for nothing, and now that that's what he's worth, he's replaceable. Yes, Flores would've been the first, but not only, option. Frazier? I'd rather see TJ Rivera in there everyday until Flores is back. He's shown an adequate glove and a line-drive bat. Whatever we'd have to give up for Frazier would be too much.

Conforto* - RF
Cabrera# - SS
Cespedes - LF
Bruce* - 1b
Walker# - 2b
TJRivera - 3b
Granderson* - cf
Plawecki - C

DL - Wright, Nimmo, Duda, Flores, d'Arnaud

[u:12vpqhyx]bench[/u:12vpqhyx]:
RRivera - C
Lagares - OF
Reyes# - IF
Renolds - UT
____ * of ?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Guest