"The Big 5"

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

With Parnell's career all but done in NY, we can finally close the book on the five guys that Mets wouldn;t move so as to crawl to finish line in 2008. In Omar's defense, Wagner was enough of a dick to wait until just after the trade deadline to break down, and 2/5ths of them had nice careers. But geez, with hindsight, getting Bobby Ayala in August just wasn't enough. I also believe Omar's lack of July action was a big factor in the 2005ers coming up short, although they were a longer shot.

Let's relive the excitement of the Coming of the Big Five: http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/9700/f1_t9787.shtml

[seawolf17]

Oh, Fartinez. We hardly knew you.

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

I have no recollection of Eddie Kunz, but Wikipedia lists him as a free agent. Sign him now, Sandy!

[Centerfield]

I remember him having to carry a pink backpack.

And though I don't have any memory of this, I'm guessing Fman made a joke or two involving his name.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Lotta walks, and quickly-diminishing K numbers as he climbed the organization ladder, especially curious for such a hard thrower. Exhibit A in the "Make Relievers, Don't Draft Relievers" case.

Parnell's that close to done, we think?

[Centerfield]

I'm not sure. I'd give him a flyer. Minor league deal definitely. Maybe even an incentive-laden major league deal with a low guaranteed base.

If they can all bounce back to form, a Mejia-Parnell-Familia bullpen would be pretty nasty. With Edgin and Blevins coming from the left side.

I know. 3 of the 5 didn't pitch last year, and Parnell sucked when he did, but you never know with middle relief.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well, I'd guess Parnell's career as a significant player for anyone probably is over. The guy had neck surgery and elbow surgery in consecutive years and even in the best of times wasn't effective if he wasn't bringing it at 98.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Kunz was supposed to be this polished college guy the Mets thought could slot into the major league pen pretty quickly. This guy made me immediately think of Chad Cordero for some reason. I think the cheap-assed Mets (!!) were just trying to buy their free agent reliever right out of college. Also remember a couple of dirty name jokes. He was prob called 'Rusty' at least once.

Why do I struggle to remember my own mother's birthday, but can remember anything at all about Eddie Kunz?

[Edgy MD]

Traded for fellow top-draft-pick-rounder-turned-minor-league-vet Allan Dykstra. Dykstra at least gave the Mets three years of productive Lucas Duda insurance on the farm, and got a bitter cup of coffee with Tampa this year. Kunz hasn't pitched since 2012.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Apparently I was aware of who Eddie Kunz was back in 2008, since I posted an opinion about him in that thread. But the name doesn't ring a bell at all with me eight years later.

I do remember Jon Niese, Daniel Murphy, and Bobby Parnell, though. Fernando Martinez too, although I haven't thought of him in years. Am I remembering correctly that he was considered a "can't miss" or am I conflating him with Alex Escobar?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

In retrospect the good buzz on Fartinez was based on having hung in there OK against guys who were older than he was, vs. actually being better than them, necessarily.

He also didn't develop a lot of power and wasn't a center fielder, got hurt a little too much.

Kunz was a total Omar trick he learned GMing on a budget in Montreal with Cordero -- he'd done the same with Joe Smith and been successful there too.

If you ever think of how much resources and general worry the bullpens caused the Omar Era and consider he traded away Smith, Heath Bell and Matt Lindstrom during the same period and got dick for all of them.

[seawolf17]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fernando Martinez too, although I haven't thought of him in years. Am I remembering correctly that he was considered a "can't miss" or am I conflating him with Alex Escobar?

Fartinez was the second coming of Lastings Milledge, who was the second coming of Alex Escobar. In every aspect.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy was surprised to read that Alex Ochoa had somehow escaped the Continuum Bustopherum Rightfieldium.

[Frayed Knot]

seawolf17 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fernando Martinez too, although I haven't thought of him in years. Am I remembering correctly that he was considered a "can't miss" or am I conflating him with Alex Escobar? Fartinez was the second coming of Lastings Milledge, who was the second coming of Alex Escobar. In every aspect.

Only sort of.
Milledge was obviously touted due to his high draft status (12th overall). Escobar & Martinez, signed much younger on account of being Latin than even the HS-drafted Lastings, had to earn their prospect status which they both did quite early in the lower minors where, as noted by JCL, their success came against higher-age competition. Problem was that they carried those 'hot prospect' labels with them even as they became less dominant while rising through the system. Both had injury problems as well that stalled their progress, particularly Escobar.
But, yeah, all three were OF prospects who failed to materialize. Milledge, now 30 y/o, is credited with only 76 ABs for Yakult in the Japanese League this past season. Even worse is that my auto-correct keeps changing his name to Mileage.


Kunz was also a 1st round pick although merely the 42nd one overall -- we had lost our own 1st rounder that year (29th pick) by signing Moises Alou and got the Kunz pick by losing Roberto Hernandez as a FA.
As a college reliever from a top program (Oregon State) Kunz was expected to move quickly and possibly slot right into the closer spot. When he failed at that he became for some the symbol of NYM draft failures and it became a mantra for the more cynical set to deride whatever draft was upcoming after that as one where the Mets 'were just going to draft another long-ceiling reliever' as if drafting a reliever that high was something no one else did (nonsense) or something that was an annual NYM move.
Five picks before Kunz went Travis d'Arnaud to the Phillies, six picks later went Josh Donaldson. Ah to have a crystal ball.

[nymr83]

when I think failed prospects, Milledge/Escobar/Martinez are the ones that really come to mind, even ahead of "generation K"

[Centerfield]

I think Edgy is right though. Ochoa really started that parade of five-tool busts.

I feel like for a long time the Mets were dead set on finding the next Darryl Strawberry.

[seawolf17]

Yes, Ochoa. Forgot about him.

Fuckin' outfielders, man.

[Centerfield]

By the way, if Straw was billed as "The Black Ted Williams", is it ok for us to hope that Conforto is "The White Darryl Strawberry"?

[Edgy MD]

I like Conforto as a precedent all to himself. Has any Mets prospect ever matched him for athletic lineage on both sides of his family?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ochoa's arm was no joke, but the rest of his tools never came along.

Mets would later trade him to Minnesota for Rich Becker, and Damon Buford, who came along with Ochoa, to the Rangers for Terrell Lowery.

In essence the Mets turned Strawberry into Rich Becker and Terrell Lowery in just 7 years.

[Edgy MD]

He had a good year or two as a semi-regular with Milwaukee and Cincinnati. I remember there was a protest day when all of MLB's Cuban and Cuban-American players were going to sit out, and he was twisting his hands over whether to participate, because he was finally getting his game together.