Ricco: It's Zobrist or dick for us this winter

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: No, there's no truth in the notion that, if I happen to disagree with you about something, it's because, if I agree with you, it would be a tacit admission that batmagadan was right. He's right often enough. He's certainly not right about being a martyr for the truth.

Ok. Fair. Pure speculation on my part. It seemed to me like some of those prior debates a bit heated.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Not hating or bashing. I'm not going to beat this drum all winter. But I'm also not going to sit idly by with blinders on and think the Mets are a well run organization and amply financed. Anyone who does is a sheep. Bahhhhh. They're as well run as any. Better than some.

Yeah. In fact, the Mets are so well run that recently, they hadda borrow $25M from the league to meet basic operating expenses. Which would be like you having to beg your worst enemy for a $100 loan to prevent the electric company from turning out your lights.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Since everyone else keeps restating their positions, I figure I'll do the same.

I want the Wilpons gone. If they can't afford to run this team, they should sell to somebody who can.

I think the front office is doing a very good job given the financial limitations they have, limitations that they should NOT have.

I think that the Mets are in a great position with their abundance of inexpensive and talented starting pitchers and realize that this is a window that is going to get narrower and narrower over the next few years as Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, etc. reach arbitration and ultimately free agency. Because of this, the Mets should maximize this opportunity and add the players they need to make themselves an overwhelming force in the National League so that they can win another pennant or three and, ideally, a World Championship.

I realize that there are budgetary reasons that may prevent them from doing this. I have reconciled myself to this. I don't like it. It's frustrating, but not infuriating. I'm going to keep watching and rooting but I'm not going to complain.

My lack of complaint should not be interpreted as any kind of endorsement of the Wilpons, or that I'm satisfied with the status quo. It's simply because angst is futile and while I absolutely loved seeing the Mets in the playoffs and World Series, I remain aware that there are many other things in my life that are more important.

[Vic Sage]

It's simply because angst is futile

The Philosophers Against Wilpon respectfully disagree. Angst is a boundless font of life energy that can keep you warm in the cold days of December.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think considering the incompetent ownership, the lender-appointed management team has done a fantastic job managing this franchise, making the right decisions with the resources they have, changing course when necessary etc. Not every move has worked out but most big decisions have, and the goofs aren't killing us like they did under the previous moron to have run the team.

Regarding 2010, taking it up the ass from the league when the best players you could afford were Shawn Marcum and Jon Rauch sucked but was part of the process of unraveling all the ridiculous and poorly thought out contracts Wilpon Okayed while they went broke.

Oh, and I disagree with Batmags often but I think he's swell and a great member of our community. Funniest guy here some days, and that's saying something.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Vic Sage wrote: It's simply because angst is futile The Philosophers Against Wilpon respectfully disagree. Angst is a boundless font of life energy that can keep you warm in the cold days of December.

To each his own, I guess! Angst just ain't my thing.

[Vic Sage]

agreed, to all of the above.

[Vic Sage]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Vic Sage wrote: It's simply because angst is futile The Philosophers Against Wilpon respectfully disagree. Angst is a boundless font of life energy that can keep you warm in the cold days of December. To each his own, I guess! Angst just ain't my thing.

then you haven't been doing it right.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Question: If you're a member of TiTTS, do you have to apply to
become a member of PAW or are you grandfathered in?

[Vic Sage]

d'Kong76 wrote: Question: If you're a member of TiTTS, do you have to apply to become a member of PAW or are you grandfathered in?

We will uphold your bust with pride and usher you into the meeting hall.
There will be mead on tap.

[Frayed Knot]

I got a restraining order once for PAWing some TITTS, but that was a long time ago and I no longer have to register my whereabouts with local law enforcement.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I was gonna go there this morning FK, gmta....

[TransMonk]

I have no love for the Wilpons and wish for them to shake every last nickel out of their wallets to get this team a championship or three before the pitching leaves.

Still, I think too many fans believe that the primary goal for sports team owners is winning a championship. Like any other business, they are in it to make money. Yes, typically, winning it all leads to cash, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

TransMonk wrote: ... I think too many fans believe that the primary goal for sports team owners is winning a championship. Like any other business, they are in it to make money.

The biggest problem with the Mets, prior to this recent year, is that they haven't been doing much of either.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: It's simply because angst is futile The Philosophers Against Wilpon respectfully disagree. Angst is a boundless font of life energy that can keep you warm in the cold days of December.

I generally use beer for this, and don't generally find myself cold. I've got enough angst with my own finances.

[Guest d'Kong76]

TransMonk wrote: I have no love for the Wilpons and wish love for them to shake every last nickel out of their wallets to get this team a championship or three before the pitching leaves.

Striking while the pitching iron is hot really needs to be a theme.
Maybe a new thread is in order. We didn't get Zobrist and it's looking
like we'll likely get dick this off-season.

[Edgy MD]

Where do I collect on this dick I've been promised?

[Guest d'Kong76]

I'm more into TiTTS, you'll have to find your own dick.
I can't wait to hear a Zobrist quote about the Chicago suburbs and
schools were more enticing that those in Westchester/CT.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Where do I collect on this dick I've been promised?

https://newyork.craigslist.org/search/que/cas?query=flushing

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

And another thing, it's just mid-boggling how quick people are willing to ignore just how inept these owners are because the Mets went to the WS.

I think a reasonable person could argue that getting to the World Series means that the owners are not as inept as you claim. Or does this mean that there are 28 other owners who are more inept, and just one who is more skilled?

[Guest d'Kong76]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: I think a reasonable person could argue that getting to the World Series means that the owners are not as inept as you claim. Or does this mean that there are 28 other owners who are more inept, and just one who is more skilled?

I think a reasonable person could argue the Mets were lucky and
got to the WS in spite of their owners.

We can do this all winter.

[Edgy MD]

The key is to accept that reasonable people can disagree, and not that people who don't see it the same way are necessarily crazy or biased.

OE: Or a fat, wooly sheep!

[Guest d'Kong76]

Imagine, it's easy if you try.

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Since everyone else keeps restating their positions, I figure I'll do the same. I want the Wilpons gone. If they can't afford to run this team, they should sell to somebody who can. I think the front office is doing a very good job given the financial limitations they have, limitations that they should NOT have. I think that the Mets are in a great position with their abundance of inexpensive and talented starting pitchers and realize that this is a window that is going to get narrower and narrower over the next few years as Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, etc. reach arbitration and ultimately free agency. Because of this, the Mets should maximize this opportunity and add the players they need to make themselves an overwhelming force in the National League so that they can win another pennant or three and, ideally, a World Championship. I realize that there are budgetary reasons that may prevent them from doing this. I have reconciled myself to this. I don't like it. It's frustrating, but not infuriating. I'm going to keep watching and rooting but I'm not going to complain. My lack of complaint should not be interpreted as any kind of endorsement of the Wilpons, or that I'm satisfied with the status quo. It's simply because angst is futile and while I absolutely loved seeing the Mets in the playoffs and World Series, I remain aware that there are many other things in my life that are more important.

BG is like me, except like, he's a grown up and shows maturity and self-restraint.

[Centerfield]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think considering the incompetent ownership, the lender-appointed management team has done a fantastic job managing this franchise, making the right decisions with the resources they have, changing course when necessary etc. Not every move has worked out but most big decisions have, and the goofs aren't killing us like they did under the previous moron to have run the team. Regarding 2010, taking it up the ass from the league when the best players you could afford were Shawn Marcum and Jon Rauch sucked but was part of the process of unraveling all the ridiculous and poorly thought out contracts Wilpon Okayed while they went broke. Oh, and I disagree with Batmags often but I think he's swell and a great member of our community. Funniest guy here some days, and that's saying something.

Great summary.

I can't tell if you're kidding or not, but do you think the management team really is lender appointed?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I don't want them to sign a bunch of really bad deals now just to prove that they a big market team, then be saddled with bad contracts on old players when it comes time to ink the big deals for the young pitchers when they are ready to get paid.

[Guest d'Kong76]

No one here wants spending for sake of spending, nor being
saddled with bad contracts.

I don't get why people don't see they're still broke (or cheap).

[TransMonk]

d'Kong76 wrote: No one here wants spending for sake of spending, nor being saddled with bad contracts. I don't get why people don't see they're still broke (or cheap).

But where do you draw the line between broke or cheap and cost efficient?

Just an honest question from a devil's advocate who mostly agrees with the "F the Wilpons" side.

[batmagadanleadoff]

d'Kong76 wrote: Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: I think a reasonable person could argue that getting to the World Series means that the owners are not as inept as you claim. Or does this mean that there are 28 other owners who are more inept, and just one who is more skilled? I think a reasonable person could argue the Mets were lucky and got to the WS in spite of their owners.

Jesus Christ, I'm starting to agree with this fucker.

[Centerfield]

TransMonk wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: No one here wants spending for sake of spending, nor being saddled with bad contracts. I don't get why people don't see they're still broke (or cheap). But where do you draw the line between broke or cheap and cost efficient? Just an honest question from a devil's advocate who mostly agrees with the "F the Wilpons" side.

I never saw that as a line between the two since I view them as different concepts.

Cheap/broke means you don't fund the team with the payroll it needs to compete. The payroll should be commensurate with industry standard for the market you play in. So, in other words, this is the actual money spent.

Cost efficiency is the manner in which that money is spent. A low budget team can spend money foolishly. A top tier payroll can still be spent in a cost-efficient manner.