Draft Kings

[Edgy MD]

I'm at my wits end with Draft Kings ads, and then I stumbled upon this ol' quote from Rob Manfred, from a Charlie Vascellero article about players being forbidden from participating in daily fantasy games.

"There is a clear legal line and, quite frankly, we spent some considerable effort and money to make sure we knew where DraftKings is in relation to that line and we're very comfortable with the idea that it's fantasy," Manfred said at the conference, organized by the SportsBusiness Journal. "Having said that, fantasy is a very important method of engagement, particularly with younger people."

This is how they engage younger people?

[Ceetar]

fantasy football/baseball are pretty big, yes. and presumably with the younger crowd too.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Both Draft Kings and its rival FanDuel (whose icky commercials feature the slimy testimony "doncha wanna piece of the pie?") are backed by oodles of private equity $$ who see a huge land grab in front of them (hence all the commercials), and lots to be made from the pockets of idiotic 20-somethings.

Kuhn's shunning Willie Mays might have been over the top but almost preferable to Lunchpail watching the highlights in the morning and reminding me who today's Draft Kings top picks are.

[Ceetar]

Not saying this is how it's gonna go or that we should even care, but if baseball is going to move to a more national game than a regional one, fantasy sports and gambling are probably how it's going to get there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm not even sure there's a meaningful distinction between regional and national or why that's even necessary considering baseball's already in every large Metro area in the US (and just about all the small ones), but all the same I'd prefer it be supported on the business level by Gillette Foamy and Budweiser, as God intended.

[Frayed Knot]

Among the other political issues we're NOT having open and honest debates about, this nation's long and mostly hypocritical stance* towards gambling is yet another one.'

This fantasy stuff slides by because it's been tabbed as a game of skill rather than chance so it's technically not gambling (yet poker receives no such waiver) which not only gives it the stamp of approval but does so while keeping many possible sources of competition strictly NOT legal.
But it certainly does resemble gambling in that most of the winning is done by a small handful of essentially professional players who are at liberty to play and bankroll multiple 'games' per day with the idea that one or more will hit. Meanwhile the minnows dipping their toes into the water, or the ones who are conned by the commercials that make it seem like every entrant is a winner, are merely funneling their dough to the sharks which makes both the pros and the ones running the games very happy.




* many state & local governments were and are quite anti-gambling except when it comes to the forms over which they long held monopolistic control: lotteries, racetracks, etc.

[Ceetar]

Among the other political issues we're NOT having open and honest debates about, this nation's long and mostly hypocritical stance* towards gambling is yet another one.' This fantasy stuff slides by because it's been tabbed as a game of skill rather than chance so it's technically not gambling (yet poker receives no such waiver) which not only gives it the stamp of approval but does so while keeping many possible sources of competition strictly NOT legal. But it certainly does resemble gambling in that most of the winning is done by a small handful of essentially professional players who are at liberty to play and bankroll multiple 'games' per day with the idea that one or more will hit. Meanwhile the minnows dipping their toes into the water, or the ones who are conned by the commercials that make it seem like every entrant is a winner, are merely funneling their dough to the sharks which makes both the pros and the ones running the games very happy. * many state & local governments were and are quite anti-gambling except when it comes to the forms over which they long held monopolistic control: lotteries, racetracks, etc.

not just the nation, but sports leagues.


Anyway, I'm definitely in the pro-gambling boat, but this should be treated as such. While what sports players do is skill based, what happens on any one day is pretty damn close to a coin flip. On equal footing, a random selection will win roughly as much as someone that watches the sport religiously.(which is not true in poker, which is just inane) Not much different than the 'beat the streak' contests MLB runs to pick a different hitter each day to get a hit, 56 days in a row.

And to really double down, sports leagues and politicians (thanks Christie) keep shooting down sports gambling.

At least poker is legal in NJ..

[Farmer Ted]

Caught my friend lose all enthusiasm for life when he found himself on the wrong end of a fantasy golf bet. FANTASY FUCKING GOLF.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: fantasy football/baseball are pretty big, yes.

I didn't ask this.

Ceetar wrote: and presumably with the younger crowd too.

Which isn't what I really asked either.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I don't think any of the sports should be in bed with any of these
fantasy things.... something's gonna happen and it's gonna be a big
mess one of these days...

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think any of the sports should be in bed with any of these fantasy things.... something's gonna happen and it's gonna be a big mess one of these days...

like what? it's basically a slot machine. Even if Jimmy Rollins had the opposing pitcher in his lineup, it's not like him striking out against him 3 times is going to move the needle much, and certainly not with any certainty.

[dgwphotography]

I cringe every time I see/hear one of these Draft Kings or Fanduel commercials.

I don't see how anyone has the time to play head to head fantasy sports Every. Single. Day. As FK said, most of the money goes to those players basically do it professionally.

I miss the days of Rotisserie Baseball. Gathering with a group of friends around the table on the Sunday before the season started to draft your team, and then let the chips fall where they may. The lead up research during spring training not only got me going for the season, but it also made me more knowledgeable of each team's players. It was just more laid back, and enjoyable.

Anyway, I found this fun article in the Times from 25 years ago, and it was a quandary I found myself in a couple of times:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/08/sports/views-of-sport-the-awful-truth-about-rotisserie-league-baseball.html

[Fman99]

dgwphotography wrote: I miss the days of Rotisserie Baseball. Gathering with a group of friends around the table on the Sunday before the season started to draft your team, and then let the chips fall where they may. The lead up research during spring training not only got me going for the season, but it also made me more knowledgeable of each team's players. It was just more laid back, and enjoyable.

I run a league just like this, have been since 2000. Ceetar joined it this year. We draft via email for the first 10-12 rounds and then live draft (via shared spreadsheet) for the rest, since the participants are all over the nation (a few do come over to my place for pizza and drafting). It's great fun, curmudgeonly dismissals aside

[dgwphotography]

Fman99 wrote: dgwphotography wrote: I miss the days of Rotisserie Baseball. Gathering with a group of friends around the table on the Sunday before the season started to draft your team, and then let the chips fall where they may. The lead up research during spring training not only got me going for the season, but it also made me more knowledgeable of each team's players. It was just more laid back, and enjoyable. I run a league just like this, have been since 2000. Ceetar joined it this year. We draft via email for the first 10-12 rounds and then live draft (via shared spreadsheet) for the rest, since the participants are all over the nation (a few do come over to my place for pizza and drafting). It's great fun, curmudgeonly dismissals aside

that's really cool.

[Ceetar]

I did..okay.

really, daily fantasy only takes about as much as regular fantasy does. You have to log in and check your lineups and starters anyway, and in 'real' fantasy you make trades and changes which takes more time. Daily fantasy is just 'pick which 10 guys you think will have good days'

[Guest d'Kong76]

Ceetar wrote: like what? it's basically a slot machine. Even if Jimmy Rollins had the opposing pitcher in his lineup, it's not like him striking out against him 3 times is going to move the needle much, and certainly not with any certainty.

Slot machines are gambling, so is the lottery. You ever get behind
the guy that's playing 20 daily numbers and and buying ten scratchers
at the Getty Mart? It's a sickness and enouraging young people on the
MLB Channel to play Draft Kings is just plain nuts and hypocritical given
their hard line stance on other gambling issues.

[ashie62]

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think any of the sports should be in bed with any of these fantasy things.... something's gonna happen and it's gonna be a big mess one of these days...

I agree. These one day fantasy things are a way to allow "gambling" without breaking gaming laws. IMHO its all about the money.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: fantasy football/baseball are pretty big, yes. I didn't ask this. Ceetar wrote: and presumably with the younger crowd too. Which isn't what I really asked either.

I don't see that you asked anything. You vented. What is your question?

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: like what? it's basically a slot machine. Even if Jimmy Rollins had the opposing pitcher in his lineup, it's not like him striking out against him 3 times is going to move the needle much, and certainly not with any certainty. Slot machines are gambling, so is the lottery. You ever get behind the guy that's playing 20 daily numbers and and buying ten scratchers at the Getty Mart? It's a sickness and enouraging young people on the MLB Channel to play Draft Kings is just plain nuts and hypocritical given their hard line stance on other gambling issues.

yes, and they're legal. I think they should be taxed, regulated, and come with the same warnings those things do. When they email you your lineup it should include the number for the gambling addiction hotline.

But they should be legal. As should poker, which is _actually_ a game of skill.

And I don't have a problem with MLB having them as a sponsor, as I believe they're legitimate businesses and that's fine with me. I mean, Lincoln's a sponsor and so is Budweiser but drunk driving is a real problem too. Obesity is a problem and there's a huge Pepsi Porch in right field.

[ashie62]

Addiction knows no bounds and has few limits.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Ceetar wrote: I mean, Lincoln's a sponsor and so is Budweiser but drunk driving is a real problem too. Obesity is a problem and there's a huge Pepsi Porch in right field.

Priceless.

[Edgy MD]

Ashie62 wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: fantasy football/baseball are pretty big, yes. I didn't ask this. Ceetar wrote: and presumably with the younger crowd too. Which isn't what I really asked either. I don't see that you asked anything. You vented. What is your question?

I don't mean to be cheeky, but it's the sentence that ends in a question mark.

Come on. Let's work together.

Ceetar wrote: I mean, Lincoln's a sponsor and so is Budweiser but drunk driving is a real problem too.

I mean, I implore you.

[Lefty Specialist]

Please. It's gambling, using MLB players instead of a deck of cards. Should it be legal? Yes. My discomfort is with the fact that the leagues, after being so strict with gambling, have completely gotten in bed with these sites. I don't want the Mets pre-game show posting their Draft Kings lineup. And I don't like that Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots, and Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys, are major investors in Fan Duel. Something's just a little off about that.

And the fact that it's Pushed. So. Hard. makes you wonder.

[stevejrogers]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?emc=edit_na_20151005&nlid=27279148&ref=headline&referer=

Edited October 5, 2015 by Guest

[Guest d'Kong76]

Lefty Specialist wrote: And I don't like that Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots, and Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys, are major investors in Fan Duel. Something's just a little off about that.

I didn't know this, that's messed up.

[soupcan]

As if on cue, a friend just sent me this...

Fantasy Sports Employees Bet at Rival Sites Using Inside Information

Edited October 5, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

In a revelation that's sure to shock seven people... .

[soupcan]

At least it answers Ceetar's question.

Ceetar wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think any of the sports should be in bed with any of these fantasy things.... something's gonna happen and it's gonna be a big mess one of these days... like what? it's basically a slot machine. Even if Jimmy Rollins had the opposing pitcher in his lineup, it's not like him striking out against him 3 times is going to move the needle much, and certainly not with any certainty.

[Frayed Knot]

d'Kong76 wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: And I don't like that Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots, and Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys, are major investors in Fan Duel. Something's just a little off about that. I didn't know this, that's messed up.

Hell, MLB is invested in one or the other.

[Edgy MD]

soupcan wrote: At least it answers Ceetar's question. Ceetar wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I don't think any of the sports should be in bed with any of these fantasy things.... something's gonna happen and it's gonna be a big mess one of these days... like what? it's basically a slot machine. Even if Jimmy Rollins had the opposing pitcher in his lineup, it's not like him striking out against him 3 times is going to move the needle much, and certainly not with any certainty.

That's really impressive. The question that spontaneously answers itself.