Pick 25

[Elster88]

From the same article:

Meanwhile, the four Mets starters in the series -- Steven Matz, Noah Syndergaard, Matt Harvey and deGrom -- combined to strike out 34 and issue no walks.

I know the K/BB ratio for the whole team has been amazing all year and Colon was a big part of that ratio.

But holy shit what a stat.

[Gwreck]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: it's tough to make a case for Lagares over several guys in the right column. Basically, you're looking at a defensive replacement who wouldn't also be your 1st pinch hitter or 1st pinch runner.

I have no problem seeing him as a pinch runner. The difference in speed between Lagares and Young is far smaller than the defensive gap between Lagares and Young.

I suppose Nieuwenhuis is the player that splits the difference between the two.

[duan]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: it's tough to make a case for Lagares over several guys in the right column. Basically, you're looking at a defensive replacement who wouldn't also be your 1st pinch hitter or 1st pinch runner.

He's had a .780 ops vs lefties.
Cutter's is .720
Grandy's is .563
Conforto is .397 (small sample alert and his Minor League numbers didn't show a convincing split)
and while Cespedes has knocked the shite out of them for us, his career OPS vs lefties is .787.

To my mind you can make a very good case for starting him against the lefties.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

But right this minute? If I need a RBI-potential pinch hit vs. a LHP, I'm going with Cuddyer or Uribe (if healthy) or Flores -- whichever of those hasn't been in yet -- before I get to Lagares. You could even fake it with Plawecki or Tejada, if the assignment is to lead off an inning as a PH.

Neiwy on the other hand can take Lagares' defensive assignments, pinch-runs every bit as well, has more Powa potential and unlike Lagares isn't stacked behind 3 or 4 others who have the same handedness -- just Johnson, really.

[Edgy MD]

It's an interesting choice.

Lagares has certainly shown value as a bench player since Cespedes took over and even since Cuddy returned from the DL. He's probably a better on-base threat than Nieuwenhuis and Flores, while lacking either of their power, and certainly better on the bases than Flores and probably a wash with Kirk. He comes in against a lefty, he's probably not as screwed if the opposition goes to a right-hander as Kirk would be in the opposite scenario. He also brings more defense than Nieuwenhuis, if only somewhat, considering that Kirk has a right fielder's arm, and Laggy seems to have a throwing impediment that he's playing with.

But all your points are valid, particularly that the bench is deeper from the right side than the left, and going to Kirk over Laggy (or Cuddy!) could bring some balance. And Cuddy ain't gonna be left behind.

Tough choices!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm all for esprit de corps, but I'm not sure there's a situation in which Niese is warming up to come into a playoff game that makes me feel good. But there are ten days to change minds, yet. In the meantime, give me Goeddel or Gilmartin (or Verrett, even), and give Hawky a huge bottle of Dom/some venison jerky to enjoy at home.

If Uribe's out, are you taking an extra outfielder from the speed/D reserves? Or an extra arm? Dilson?

[Benjamin Grimm]

If it's an extra-inning game, or the Mets starter is removed early, I'd rather put in Niese and try to get three or four innings from him instead of trying to churn through the rest of the game stringing together a lot of one-inning pitchers.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I left Gilmartin at home. Sorry, Gilly.

Niese may not give you the warmies but what's the worst that could happen? I'm taking all 6 starters with the expectation that they're better at relieving than all but the top 3 relievers, plus Goeddel (cuz he's been pretty good) plus Robles (cuz he's a fuckin badass).

That might mean Matz and Niese could be used to get out Adrian Gonzalez with the game on the line, but also that they'd be around to give you quality in extra inning games and stuff.

[Edgy MD]

I imagine that the braintrust is going kick themselves no matter what. If they take Niese over a practiced relief pitcher, and Niese has a bad relief outing, they'll get killed. A small ugly part of them is probably hoping that an injury or two helps make the choice easier.

I expect Terry to try Niese as a reliever once or twice over the final two series to get him acclimated. I think that giving a start to Johnson at shortstop � acclimating him for any emergency duty he might be needed for over there � was a good indicator that he'll be on the bus.

An argument we've overlooked for Uribe: Injury or not, that guy wins rings in odd-numbered years.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I guess with Uribe, its all health. Can miss DS and be back for CS/WS.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

One odd year (2005 White Sox) and one even year (2010 Giants). But looks like he's on an every five year pattern.

[Edgy MD]

That's it. My mistake.

Ow, stop hitting me, Paps! OW!

[Elster88]

I'd like to think that his nickname is Paps.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I understand having a guy or two who can give you multiple innings in an extra-innings situation, but you've got that if you take Matz and one of Colon or Niese. Don't you expect close-and-late with men on base more often (and wouldn't planning for that in multiple games per series be more prudent)?

[Zvon]

Have we done a poll here in regards to team MVP for the season? Or should what happens in the post be a factor? It's not like this is N.L. MVP.
Post season might fairly be included as part of the equation when it comes to a team MVP. Should it?

[Frayed Knot]

Have we done a poll here in regards to team MVP for the season? Or should what happens in the post be a factor? It's not like this is N.L. MVP. Post season might fairly be included as part of the equation when it comes to a team MVP. Should it?

We've been doing an annual thing every off-season for over a dozen years now where those who want to participate make a list of the top 30 NYM players for the just completed year and rank them from top to bottom as to their contribution to the season. Here's the 2014 thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21987
So the top guy would be each player's MVP and we come up with an overall consensus by considering all the votes entered.
In years when there is post-season play the contributions in the playoffs absolutely count towards who was that season's top performer. To what extent is up to the individual voter.

Not that any of that means you can't start your own MVP thread for the reg season if you want. No reason it has to be an either/or thing.

[Zvon]

Have we done a poll here in regards to team MVP for the season? Or should what happens in the post be a factor? It's not like this is N.L. MVP. Post season might fairly be included as part of the equation when it comes to a team MVP. Should it? We've been doing an annual thing every off-season for over a dozen years now where those who want to participate make a list of the top 30 NYM players for the just completed year and rank them from top to bottom as to their contribution to the season. Here's the 2014 thread: http://www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21987 So the top guy would be each player's MVP and we come up with an overall consensus by considering all the votes entered. In years when there is post-season play the contributions in the playoffs absolutely count towards who was that season's top performer. To what extent is up to the individual voter. Not that any of that means you can't start your own MVP thread for the reg season if you want. No reason it has to be an either/or thing.

I was debating with myself about starting a thread/poll, but then it occurred to me that the postseason could/should matter. I'm up in there air now.

I think Grandy is our regular season MVP. Just recently Familia has been creeping into my thinking, but that could only mean a split vote because I don't think anyone's contributions during the dark days of 2015 were as big as Curtis's. Is there a way to split a vote in one of those polls?

This is no big deal. I'm making a banner and card for team MVP and I think it would be fairer to get a group consensus as opposed to just what I think. And if most want to wait for after the postseason I can wait.

[Frayed Knot]

Zvon wrote: This is no big deal. I'm making a banner and card for team MVP and I think it would be fairer to get a group consensus as opposed to just what I think. And if most want to wait for after the postseason I can wait.

Stick around in the off-season.
It's not like we quit talking about this team or baseball in general just because it gets cold outside.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: Zvon wrote: This is no big deal. I'm making a banner and card for team MVP and I think it would be fairer to get a group consensus as opposed to just what I think. And if most want to wait for after the postseason I can wait. Stick around in the off-season. It's not like we quit talking about this team or baseball in general just because it gets cold outside.

I usually do because this place helps make the off season go faster. Somehow.

[Gwreck]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Neiwy on the other hand can take Lagares' defensive assignments, pinch-runs every bit as well, has more Powa potential and unlike Lagares isn't stacked behind 3 or 4 others who have the same handedness -- just Johnson, really.

Would you consider starting Lagares in the Kershaw game?

Granderson, 2015 vs. LHP: .275 OBP, .288 SLG in 142 PAs
Lagares, 2015 vs. LHP: .336 OBP, .444 SLG in 128 PAs.


I think I want this lineup in against Kershaw:
Flores SS
Wright 3B
Cespedes CF
D'Arnaud C
Cuddyer LF
Duda 1B
Lagares RF
Murphy 2B

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

SSS ALERT

Murphy vs. Kershaw, career: 3/10 (!), 0 XBH, 0 K, 0 BB
Uribe vs. Kershaw, career: 3/11, 1 HR, 1 2B, 3 K, 0 BB
Cuddyer vs. Kershaw, career: 4/16, 0 XBH, 3 K, 0 BB
Johnson vs. Kershaw, career: 3/15, 1 HR, 5 K, 0 BB
Granderson vs. Kershaw, career: 1/10, 0 XBH, 1 K, 1 BB
Duda vs. Kershaw, career: 1/10, 0 XBH, 7 K, 1 BB
Lagares vs. Kershaw, career: 0/7, 1 K, 0 BB
Cespedes vs. Kershaw, career: 0/3, 0 K, 0 BB

[Edgy MD]

So, just for curiosity's sake, who kicked Conforto off the bus?

[Gwreck]

I assume that's one of the voters who didn't actually select 25.

[Edgy MD]

Interesting that we're all carrying Matz, even though the role for him isn't clear. Also notable is general agreement that there is no room for Carlos Torres, despite there having been room for about three seasons now.

Congratulations to Dilson Herrera on his first taste of support. But the Goeddel/Gilmartin clash goes on.

STARTERS (6) Jacob deGrom 24 Matt Harvey 24 Steven Matz 24 Noah Syndergaard 24 Bartolo Colon 22 Jon Niese 19	NON-STARTERS (1) Tim Stauffer 0 . . . . .
RELIEVERS (5) Jeurys Familia 24 Tyler Clippard 24 Addison Reed 23 Hansel Robles 22 =#FF0000]Erik Goeddel 10 .	RELIEVED (6) =#FF0000]Sean Gilmartin 10 Logan Verrett 6 Carlos Torres 2 Dario Alvarez 2 Bobby Parnell 1 Eric O'Flaherty 0
CATCHERS (2) Travis d'Arnaud 24 Kevin Plawecki 21	BELLY-SCRATCHERS (2) Anthony Recker 3 Johnny Monell 0
INFIELDERS (7) David Wright 24 Lucas Duda 24 Daniel Murphy 24 Ruben Tejada 24 Kelly Johnson 24 Wilmer Flores 23 Juan Uribe 16	FUTILITY INFIELDERS (2) Dilson Herrera 1 Eric Campbell 0 . . . . .
OUTFIELDERS (5) Yoenis Cespedes 24 Curtis Granderson 24 Juan Lagares 24 Michael Conforto 23 Michael Cuddyer 22	LEFT-OUTFIELDERS (2) Kirk Nieuwenhuis 6 Eric Young, Jr. 4 . . .

Do the leftovers get invited to travel, dress, and work out with the team?

[nymr83]

Gwreck wrote: I assume that's one of the voters who didn't actually select 25.

Flores also only has 24 of 25 votes. this thing really doesnt work if someone doesnt bother to select a whole team

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think I'm one of those guys who screwed up the 25. Sorry!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy MD wrote: Do the leftovers get invited to travel, dress, and work out with the team?

I think that they do, in case an emergency substitution has to be made. (Is it still true that that can only happen between series? Or has that rule been revised?)

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think I'm one of those guys who screwed up the 25. Sorry!

It's programmed to allow for revotes. Edit your ballots as new information becomes available!

My guess is some of the long-timers and hard cuts will get get to t/d/w with the team.

O'Flaherty and Monell, maybe not.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm thinking the travel/dress/workout guys would be people like Young, Nieuwenhuis, Recker, Campbell, Gilmartin, Verrett. (Assuming, of course, that they don't make the roster. One or two of the players I listed might make the cut.)

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Do the leftovers get invited to travel, dress, and work out with the team? I think that they do, in case an emergency substitution has to be made. (Is it still true that that can only happen between series? Or has that rule been revised?)

They've loosened up the rules somewhat from the days when El Duque couldn't even be replaced after getting hurt during a rain delay prior to the series even beginning (because it occurred after the roster freezing date).
So if there's a legit injury (not quite sure how you define that) there can be an in-round replacement with some restrictions. It has to be player for player, or pitcher for pitcher (no mixing) and I believe the player removed is not eligible for any future rounds should his team advance.