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Father-Son Hitting Combos

Edgy MD

By Edgy MD
in New York Mets Talk

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Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
Posted


Splitting off from the home run contest thread, I was braining about who the best f/s hitting teams were.

Plucking candidates from my memory (mostly), I scored the the way Bill James once did when he was trying to figure out the top baseball clans, combining the WARs, but doubling the WAR for the lesser-achieving player. The only other rule was there had to be two generations who actually played big league ball, however passingly. Else, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would be in the top five even without a big league father or son.

Also, I counted only offensive WAR. Sorry Schofields, but that was the question.

If you count step-parents � and why shouldn't you? � our men Mookie and Preston are a higher-achieving pair than I might have guessed.

And Ray Boone, who knew you were so good?

#Better PlayerWARLesser PlayerWARAdjusted Total
1Barry Bonds142.6=#0040FF]Bobby Bonds51.6245.8
2Ken Griffey, Jr.83.8=#0040FF]Ken Griffey, Sr.41.1166.0
3=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]Gus Bell24.195.5
4=#FF4000]Roberto Alomar70.0=#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr.7.885.6
5=#FF4000]Pete Rose, Sr.82.2=#0040FF]Pete Rose, Jr.-0.182.0
6=#FF4000]Prince Fielder35.0=#0040FF]Cecil Fielder19.974.8
7=#FF4000]Maury Wills38.1=#0040FF]Bump Wills15.168.3
8=#FF4000]Tim Raines, Sr.68.4=#0040FF]Tim Raines, Jr.-0.567.4
9=#FF4000]Tony Gwynn, Sr.66.2=#0040FF]Tony Gwynn, Jr.-0.465.4
10=#FF4000]Gary Matthews, Sr.39.2=#0040FF]Gary Matthews, Jr.12.263.6
11=#FF4000]Hal McRae29.7=#0040FF]Brian McRae16.963.5
12=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]David Bell8.163.5
13=#FF4000]Yogi Berra56.5=#0040FF]Dale Berra3.463.3
14=#FF4000]Bret Boone28.2=#0040FF]Bob Boone15.960.0
15=#FF4000]Ray Boone27.4=#0040FF]Bob Boone15.959.2
16=#FF4000]Mookie Wilson20.5=#0040FF]Preston Wilson14.749.9
17=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]Mike Bell0.047.3
18=#FF4000]Bob Boone15.9=#0040FF]Aaron Boone13.342.5
19=#FF4000]Andy Van Slyke37.1=#0040FF]Scott Van Slyke2.642.3
20=#FF4000]Danny Tartabull35.2=#0040FF]Jose Tartabull0.736.6
21=#FF4000]John Mayberry, Sr.27.8=#0040FF]John Mayberry, Jr.3.134.0
22=#FF4000]Sandy Alomar, Jr.13.7=#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr.7.829.3
23=#FF4000]Todd Hundley15.8=#0040FF]Randy Hundley5.927.6
24=#FF4000]Dick Schofield14.1=#0040FF]Ducky Schofield6.527.1
25=#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Jr.10.4=#0040FF]Jerry Hairston, Sr.6.222.8
26=#FF4000]Eric Young, Sr.19.6=#0040FF]Eric Young, Jr.1.522.6
27=#FF4000]Ben Grieve15.9=#0040FF]Tom Grieve3.021.9
28=#FF4000]Nick Swisher23.9=#0040FF]Steve Swisher-2.618.7
29=#FF4000]Dave Duncan9.8=#0040FF]Chris Duncan3.717.2
30=#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Sr.6.2=#0040FF]Scott Hairston5.316.8
31=#FF4000]Tony Pe�a, Sr.18.7=#0040FF]Tony Pe�a, Jr.-2.214.3
32=#FF4000]Dave Duncan9.8=#0040FF]Shelley Duncan1.212.2
33=#FF4000]Ozzie Virgil, Jr.11.7=#0040FF]Ozzie Virgil, Sr.-1.19.5


MFS62 First Round Pick

MFS62

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


Nice list.
The one that shocked me was Buddy Bell that much over daddy Gus. I remember Gus as a good power hitter for the Reds for many years. Didn't realize Buddy had a better career.

Later


metsmarathon College Ball

metsmarathon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


uh-llooo!
UH-LLLOOOOOOO!!!!!!

you're missing the #3 father-son combo, one with metly connections, and an adjusted total of 112.7

daddy had 35.8 oWAR, and faced the mets in our first world series.
sonny boy, you may remember more recently, had 41.1 oWAR, including 2.2 with our beloveds. an excellent hitter, he surely could've amassed a greater carerer total, but was quite frequently injured. he got himself a world series ring while playing a fish.


MFS62 First Round Pick

MFS62

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


I knew more about Gus, since he played most(if not all) of his career in the National League. He had been on the 1960 Pennant winning Reds (I did an historic KTE about them) and was an original Met. Buddy played most of his career in the American League so I hadn't followed him with great interest. That's why it came as a surprise.

Nobody remembers everything about baseball. That's why they have databases and trivia contests.


Later


MFS62 First Round Pick

MFS62

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


seawolf17 wrote:
LOL Pete Rose Jr.

"You know? That's Pete Rose's son."

Are you sure its his?
What are the odds?

Later


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
  • Author
Posted


Good thinking, gents. We have a new bronze medalist pairing.

#Better PlayerWARLesser PlayerWARAdjusted Total
1Barry Bonds142.6=#0040FF]Bobby Bonds51.6245.8
2Ken Griffey, Jr.83.8=#0040FF]Ken Griffey, Sr.41.1166.0
3[/bigpurple]Moises Alou41.1=#0040FF]Felipe Alou35.8112.7
4=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]Gus Bell24.195.5
5=#FF4000]Roberto Alomar70.0=#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr.7.885.6
6=#FF4000]Pete Rose, Sr.82.2=#0040FF]Pete Rose, Jr.-0.182.0
7=#FF4000]Prince Fielder35.0=#0040FF]Cecil Fielder19.974.8
8=#FF4000]Maury Wills38.1=#0040FF]Bump Wills15.168.3
9=#FF4000]Tim Raines, Sr.68.4=#0040FF]Tim Raines, Jr.-0.567.4
10=#FF4000]Tony Gwynn, Sr.66.2=#0040FF]Tony Gwynn, Jr.-0.465.4
11=#FF4000]Gary Matthews, Sr.39.2=#0040FF]Gary Matthews, Jr.12.263.6
12=#FF4000]Hal McRae29.7=#0040FF]Brian McRae16.963.5
13=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]David Bell8.163.5
14=#FF4000]Yogi Berra56.5=#0040FF]Dale Berra3.463.3
15=#FF4000]Bret Boone28.2=#0040FF]Bob Boone15.960.0
16=#FF4000]Ray Boone27.4=#0040FF]Bob Boone15.959.2
17=#FF4000]Mookie Wilson20.5=#0040FF]Preston Wilson14.749.9
18=#FF4000]Buddy Bell47.3=#0040FF]Mike Bell0.047.3
19=#FF4000]Bob Boone15.9=#0040FF]Aaron Boone13.342.5
20=#FF4000]Andy Van Slyke37.1=#0040FF]Scott Van Slyke2.642.3
21=#FF4000]Danny Tartabull35.2=#0040FF]Jose Tartabull0.736.6
22=#FF4000]John Mayberry, Sr.27.8=#0040FF]John Mayberry, Jr.3.134.0
23[/bigpurple]=#FF4000]Don Buford30.7=#0040FF]Damon Buford1.333.3
24=#FF4000]Sandy Alomar, Jr.13.7=#0040FF]Sandy Alomar, Sr.7.829.3
25=#FF4000]Todd Hundley15.8=#0040FF]Randy Hundley5.927.6
26=#FF4000]Dick Schofield14.1=#0040FF]Ducky Schofield6.527.1
27=#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Jr.10.4=#0040FF]Jerry Hairston, Sr.6.222.8
28=#FF4000]Eric Young, Sr.19.6=#0040FF]Eric Young, Jr.1.522.6
29=#FF4000]Ben Grieve15.9=#0040FF]Tom Grieve3.021.9
30=#FF4000]Nick Swisher23.9=#0040FF]Steve Swisher-2.618.7
31=#FF4000]Dave Duncan9.8=#0040FF]Chris Duncan3.717.2
32=#FF4000]Jerry Hairston, Sr.6.2=#0040FF]Scott Hairston5.316.8
33=#FF4000]Tony Pe�a, Sr.18.7=#0040FF]Tony Pe�a, Jr.-2.214.3
34=#FF4000]Dave Duncan9.8=#0040FF]Shelley Duncan1.212.2
35=#FF4000]Ozzie Virgil, Jr.11.7=#0040FF]Ozzie Virgil, Sr.-1.19.5


MFS62 First Round Pick

MFS62

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


What does "Adjusted Total" mean if you said you were just counting offensive WAR?
(a new metric?)

Later


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
  • Author
Posted


I didn't say I was just counting the WARs.

Edgy MD wrote:
I scored the the way Bill James once did when he was trying to figure out the top baseball clans, combining the WARs, but doubling the WAR for the lesser-achieving player.


MFS62 First Round Pick

MFS62

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


Thanks.
Guess I'm still a kid at heart - I look at the picture without reading the words. :)
Later


Chad ochoseis College Ball

Chad ochoseis

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


We are Adam and Dave and Andy
Adam and Dave and Andy LaRoche
We played a lot of baseball
And we put up decent numbers (put up decent numbers)
Well, Andy really sucked
But the rest of us put up decent numbers



Dave LaRoche hit .246 in more at bats than Pete Rose Jr. His oWAR is 1.0, although pitchers get compared only to other pitchers for oWAR calcs. But if you count Dave's 1.0 with Adam's 16.0, the LaRoches move into the neighborhood, right between the Swishers and the Duncans.


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
  • Author
Posted


That's fair, as long as we're just counting offensive WAR, to include combos in which father or son was a pitcher.

That also gives us the Tonys Armas, Vernon and Vance Law, and Joe and Lance Niekro, among others.


metsmarathon College Ball

metsmarathon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


did you draw the line at delino deshields? 24.2 WAR for senior., 1.1 (and counting) for junior.

the gordons, gee and flash, are, well, probably closer to the cut line, as daddy had a scant 2 plate appearances (no hits) during his 21 year career. i don't quite undestand how, but bbref has flash down as a 0.4 oWAR. how...? but dee is finally starting to come around, with 4.4 WAR to his name.


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
  • Author
Posted


Edgy MD wrote:
I drew the line at my fatigue point. I can add them laters.

But feel free to copy the chart and edit them in.


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