Is this Piazza's year?

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: other views on how shafted Smoltz is by biased use of WAR and JAWS: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tures/biased-war-and-jaws-stats_b_6417496.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

He's not shafted, he didn't pitch as much. It's not that WAR is biased against relievers, it's that by any measure, being great for 240 innings is roughly 4x as good as being great for 60 innings. Relieving and Starting are not 'two separate positions' they're the same position at different points in the game.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: ...it's that by any measure, being great for 240 innings is roughly 4x as good as being great for 60 innings.

I disagree with this.

[Valadius]

In my view, Smoltz was the least of the Braves' triumvirate but that doesn't mean he wasn't great himself. He'll get whisked into Cooperstown this year in the afterglow of the Maddux/Glavine/Cox trifecta from last year's class, and that should close the book on the '90s Braves until Larry becomes eligible.

Next year's class will be a bit of a breather compared to the last few - Ken Griffey, Jr. and Trevor Hoffman are the big names up next year, with Billy Wagner and Jim Edmonds really the only other players worthy of prolonged consideration. But until the Hall fixes its stupid induction rules we will continue to see this mess repeated year after year.

[nymr83]

Smoltz also needs to get credit for his playoff work... i dont think we need to overrate October (::cough::Pettite::cough: but it does account for 209 innings of 2.67 ERA that doesnt get included in his totals. Those numbers are significant and probably the difference between him and Mussina. They aren't quite enough to catch him up to Schilling in my mind, but they both belong in.

[Edgy MD]

This came up earlier, but Mussina had a pretty solid post season career also.

Schilling was simply stellar. Dynamite. Won a World Series MVP (or co-MVP, anyhow), and brought down a hateful dynasty in doing it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

At the 176 publicized ballots, Mike's just hanging on with 134 (76.14%). Predictably, the votes are heading in the wrong direction for our hero.

[Valadius]

Updated: Jan 6: 7:50 ~ 188 Full Ballots ~ (32.9% of vote ~ based on last year) ~ As usual�BBWAA ballot digging is welcome!

98.9 - R. Johnson
97.9 - P. Martinez
87.2 - Smoltz
84.6 - Biggio
76.1 - Piazza
������������
63.3 - Raines
62.8 - Bagwell
51.1 - Schilling
43.6 - Bonds
43.6 - Clemens
35.6 - Mussina
29.3 - E. Martinez
23.4 - Trammell
19.7 - Lee Smith
16.0 - McGriff
14.4 - Kent
9.6 - Sheffield
7.4 - L. Walker
6.9 - McGwire
������������-
4.8 - Sosa
4.8 - Mattingly
1.6 - Garciaparra
1.6 - Delgado
1.1 - Pete Rose (Write-In)

[Edgy MD]

Mussina would be looking down from the top of this list if Rich Garcia got the call and Jeter was called out and Jeffrey Maier ejected.

[Valadius]

I'm not optimistic. Looks like most of the New York contingent has reported in.

Updated: Jan 6: 10:35 ~ 192 Full Ballots ~ (33.6% of vote ~ based on last year) ~ As usual�BBWAA ballot digging is welcome!

99.0 - R. Johnson
97.9 - P. Martinez
87.0 - Smoltz
84.4 - Biggio
75.5 - Piazza
������������
64.0 - Raines
62.5 - Bagwell
51.6 - Schilling
43.8 - Bonds
43.8 - Clemens
35.4 - Mussina
29.7 - E. Martinez
25.5 - Trammell
20.8 - Lee Smith
15.6 - McGriff
14.6 - Kent
8.9 - Sheffield
7.8 - L. Walker
6.3 - McGwire
������������-
4.7 - Sosa
4.7 - Mattingly
1.6 - Garciaparra
1.6 - Delgado
1.0 - Pete Rose (Write-In)
0.5 - Percival

[Edgy MD]

Bacne Man's hanging on by the skin of his teeth.

Impressive how Bonds and Clemens seems to be a single decision for a lot of voters.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy MD wrote: Bacne Man's hanging on by the skin of his teeth.

Is having skin on your teeth a sign of steroid use?

I hope Piazza gets in. I do think he belongs, but to be honest, the Hall of Fame has come to mean very little to me. I'd almost like to see them purge the entire membership, set more specific criteria, and then start repopulating the Hall.

[Gwreck]

28 votes short this year. 69.9 percent.

[Guest sharpie]

Not Piazza's year. He gets 69.9%.

Randy Johnson, Pedro, Smoltz and Biggio all get in.

[Ceetar]

Delgado gets 21 votes. none for Floyd.

[Guest sharpie]

First time in 60 years that four were voted in by the writers.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

... as a near-direct result of last year's dumbvoting.

[Gwreck]

Lots of strange things going on:

1. Clemens gets four more votes than Bonds.
2. Someone voted for Darin Erstad.
3. 4 people voted for Troy Percival.

[metirish]

Stupid system.....fuck them

[Valadius]

I think it's a certainty that Piazza goes in next year with Griffey. Still an absolute travesty he's had to wait this long.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Bacne Man's hanging on by the skin of his teeth. Impressive how Bonds and Clemens seems to be a single decision for a lot of voters.

Aren't they though? they both fall into the category of having undeniable credentials and proven steroid use. i dont think anyone else has ever fallen into both categories before (McGwire is closest, but hes been on the ballot longer and failed enough already that his supporters may be allocatig their maximum of 10 votes elsewhere)

Piazza got fucked.

[Centerfield]

Gwreck wrote: Lots of strange things going on: 1. Clemens gets four more votes than Bonds. 2. Someone voted for Darin Erstad. 3. 4 people voted for Troy Percival.

Once you do something as stupid as voting for Darin Erstad or Troy Percival, your right to vote should be revoked. Dumb system. Let me take that back, dumb writers.

If I were the Mets, I'd retire Piazza's number this year anyway. And as part of the ceremony, I'd take select quotes from Marty Noble and illustrate the kind of idiots that are keeping Mike out of the HOF.

[Edgy MD]

Trending in the right direction, anyhow.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

The Baseball Hall of Fame voters are discriminatory against gay ballplayers.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Fuck them! I will not step foot in that town again until
they change the voting system. (unless I'm in the area
and some wants to go the The Ommegang.)

[Valadius]

How the fuck does more than one person vote for Aaron Boone? I get that at least one hack MFY writer might vote for him, but more than one?

[seawolf17]

Valadius wrote: How the fuck does more than one person vote for Aaron Boone? I get that at least one hack MFY writer might vote for him, but more than one?

Stuff like that bothers me more in a year like this where there were like eighteen guys with solid cases. Idiots.

Congrats to three of the four. Eff Smoltz.

[Frayed Knot]

Randy Johnson - Traded at age 25 after 10 ML starts + 1 relief appearance

John Smoltz - Traded as a 20 y/o minor leaguer

Pedro Martinez - Traded at age 22 after 67 games pitched but just 2 starts



There might be a lesson in there somewhere but I think it's subject to interpretation.

[Edgy MD]

Craig Biggio too. Switching positions before he was completely established as a hitter. His career was at a real crossroads.

[nymr83]

I think the ballot clears up a little bit next year... Griffey will get in right away, Hoffman/Wagner will chill on the ballot for awhile, is that it? Jim Edmonds maybe squeeks by 5% to stay on the ballot

[Edgy MD]

I see mostly progress here. Momentum is building for Bagwell and Raines, if not Tremmell so much. The strongest candidate eliminated by the 5% threshold is Delgado. He's a pretty strong candidate, but I feared we see two or three others get Whittakered.

Mattingly is eliminated on time.

Aurilia, Clark, Dye, Floyd, Giles, Guardado, and Schmidt all get Hubie'd.

Name	Votes (Pct.)	Yrs on ballot
Randy Johnson	534 (97.3)	1
Pedro Martinez	500 (91.1)	1
John Smoltz	455 (82.9)	1
Craig Biggio	454 (82.7)	3
XXXXXXXXXX
Mike Piazza	384 (69.9)	3
Jeff Bagwell	306 (55.7)	5
Tim Raines	302 (55)	8
Curt Schilling	215 (39.2)	3
Roger Clemens	206 (37.5)	3
Barry Bonds	202 (36.8)	3
Lee Smith	166 (30.2)	13
Edgar Martinez	148 (27)	6
Alan Trammell	138 (25.1)	14
Mike Mussina	135 (24.6)	2
Jeff Kent	77 (14)	2
Fred McGriff	71 (12.9)	9
Larry Walker	65 (11.8)	5
Gary Sheffield	64 (11.7)	1
Mark McGwire	55 (10)	9
=#FF0000]Don [crossout]Mattingly[/crossout]	50 (9.1)	15
Sammy Sosa	36 (6.6)	3
Nomar Garciaparra	30 (5.5)	1
XXXXXXXXXX
=#FF0000][crossout]Carlos Delgado[/crossout]	21 (3.8)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Troy Percival[/crossout]	4 (0.7)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Aaron Boone[/crossout]	2 (0.4)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Tom Gordon[/crossout]	2 (0.4)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Darin Erstad[/crossout]	1 (0.2)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Rich Aurilia[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Tony Clark[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Jermaine Dye[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Cliff Floyd[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Brian Giles[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Eddie Guardado[/crossout]	0 (0)	1
=#FF0000][crossout]Jason Schmidt[/crossout]	0 (0)	1