WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

[Edgy MD]

Not a direct marketing campaign, but it did "leak" that Sandy thought that GRANDERSON + YOUNG - HARVEY= 90 WINS last spring.

I don't think it leaked. Sandy openly challenged his team to win 90, insisting the talent was there. He did not link it to one acquisition, though, and I wouldn't expect anybody in baseball to tag Cuddyer as a total solution for anything.

Regarding salary, since they opened last year, they've shed Ike Davis and Chris Young, and for what it's worth, Bobby Abreu, Kyle F. Farnsworth, Jose Valverde, John Lannan, and probably Omar Quintanilla, and Daisuke Matsuzaka. Some of that money will get gobbled up by raises, certainly, but some should be left over. And some money will likely be available for re-allocation if and when they clear up their six-man starting rotation --- possibly to pay the salary of whoever they get when they do that clearing up.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Who cares how they might market Cuddyer if they actually got him? How does that matter?

[TransMonk]

It's not about marketing Cuddyer, but rather management possibly implying that any one move is the only or best move.

I don't see this team as just one player away. I hope the team gets shaken up. Move Murphy. Move Wheeler. Change some parts. With all the young arms, I think there are several options to re-think the roster without spending a bunch more money in the short term.

But I can't take the rinse and repeat of adding a marginal player and somehow thinking the team is on track to win more than 80 games. Cuddyer would be a great pick up...as a supporting addition in conjunction with other moves.

[Ceetar]

I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless.

Even if Cuddyer is the 'main' acquisition, they're going to probably bring in another backup OF of some sort, even on a minor league deal. They'll be reaching out to MI guys. Pick up a reliever or two because he might be worthwhile.

This coupled with a presumably healthy David Wright and Matt Harvey and all the other internal roster machinations that could easily net them a handful of wins, or more, than this year?

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless.

In my heart, I believe and hope this to be true...but this statement is not a certainty.

Presumed health and internal roster machinations haven't gotten the job done over the past 6 years. Am I being greedy for wanting more than a handful of extra wins?

[Lefty Specialist]

TransMonk wrote: It's not about marketing Cuddyer, but rather management possibly implying that any one move is the only or best move. I don't see this team as just one player away. I hope the team gets shaken up. Move Murphy. Move Wheeler. Change some parts. With all the young arms, I think there are several options to re-think the roster without spending a bunch more money in the short term. But I can't take the rinse and repeat of adding a marginal player and somehow thinking the team is on track to win more than 80 games. Cuddyer would be a great pick up...as a supporting addition in conjunction with other moves.

Agreed. My concern is that they'll pick up Cuddyer and call it a day on offensive additions. And if he gets injured or gets his ears caught in a mechanical rice picker, well, we're right back to healthy servings of den Dekker & Nieuwenhuis. I'd like Cuddyer, if they get him, to be a better-hitting Eric Campbell, playing all over the place to give Wright, Duda, Granderson et al a rest. That means you still need to add an everyday outfielder. But the FO won't look at it that way. He'll be the every day left or right fielder. And that's my concern; just like they played Chris Young every day because they paid him a lot of money, they'll play Cuddyer every day to justify the expenditure.

I want this roster shaken up a little more than just adding a 36-year-old FA.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless. In my heart, I believe and hope this to be true...but this statement is not a certainty. Presumed health and internal roster machinations haven't gotten the job done over the past 6 years. Am I being greedy for wanting more than a handful of extra wins?

Has there ever been a season where the 12 of the 13ish offensive players from last year return for next year?

[Edgy MD]

I'll give it a shot.

1985 to 1986:

1985 Rank/Dude/1985 Plate Appearances/1986 Status

1 Keith Hernandez 682 Returned
2 Gary Carter 633 Returned
3 Wally Backman 574 Returned
4 Rafael Santana 564 Returned
5 George Foster 504 Returned
6 Darryl Strawberry 470 Returned
7 Howard Johnson 428 Returned
8 Mookie Wilson 367 Returned
9 Danny Heep 305 Returned
10 Ray Knight 290 Returned
11 Lenny Dykstra 273 Returned
12 Kelvin Chapman 159 Released in the offseason, replaced (in effect) by Tim Teufel
13 John Christensen 133 Traded in the Ojeda deal, replaced (in effect) by Kevin Mitchell

Almost!

In 1986-1987, we lose both Foster and Mitchell. (Even though Foster was already gone, he'd still finish in the top 13 for 1986.)

[Ceetar]

And those were good teams!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'll go out on a limb and say it, and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic or unrealistic: on a team with the Mets' pitching/outfield defense, the Cuddyers of the world-- plus 1 or 2 more additions like him, anyway-- will likely be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

(And I say, like the Rays, if you're moving young pitching, move it for something forward-looking, in the absolute right deal. Don't push Colon or Murphy out the door until someone's ringing the bell for him.)

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I'll go out on a limb and say it, and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic or unrealistic: on a team with the Mets' pitching/outfield defense, the Cuddyers of the world-- plus 1 or 2 more additions like him, anyway-- will likely be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. (And I say, like the Rays, if you're moving young pitching, move it for something forward-looking, in the absolute right deal. Don't push Colon or Murphy out the door until someone's ringing the bell for him.)

Based on historical dWAR, Cuddyer appears to be a pretty poor outfielder. If he was the only significant position player upgrade, I fear our already replacement level defense would be worse, with the offense only marginally improved.

[Lefty Specialist]

Unless Juan Lagares can cover the outfield line to line, they've got a relatively poor outfield defense. Granderson will get to things but he has a noodle arms, which is why they want to move him to left.

[Edgy MD]

Got the best center fielder in the world. What the hell you want? Eggs in your beer?

[ashie62]

I truly believe the 2015 Mets have grown to be considered a "win now" team. Sandy Alderson, yeah you! dare to be different and make the one or two moves that may pave the way to a bigass parade on Broadway next October.

Cuddyer is capable and within the teams means but think bigger. Shoot for Yoenis Cespedes. Yes he will cost a lot of cash and a very good pitcher. Bat David Wright third in front of Yoenis and David can concentrate on driving in the key RBI. He will have some help in the on deck circle. Why am I big on Cespedes? I see him emerging the way Mike Stanton has. It helps that he is a friggin physical monster.

While we are at it Sandy, I don't know if Muffy has much trade value but it is time for Flores to get the gig at 2B and find a SS who is an offensive weapon who might be available. Think Starlin Castro.

Whatever the Mets might be thinking, let it be bigger.

We are that close.

LGM

[Lefty Specialist]

YESpedes.

[Frayed Knot]

Y'know, for all of Cepedes's rep and ASG/HR contest wins, he's a sub-.300 OBA guy over the past two seasons (1,200+ PAs) and just low/mid 20s in HRs.
Not that I'm against trying to get him but I'm not going to move heaven & earth to do so - especially as he's only signed for one year (FA after 2015).
I mean he was essentially Granderson this year with a few more XBHs plus a better arm, but also fewer walks and more outs.

[seawolf17]

I know. I remember looking at the stats when he was dealt and wasn't all that impressed. BUT he's only 26.

[Frayed Knot]

seawolf17 wrote: BUT he's only 26.

Turned 29 just last week according to BB-Ref -- DOB 10/18/95 -- plus, being Cuban, there's always the chance that he's a shade older than that even.
So the guess would be that he is what he is at this point. And while his career is obviously a smaller sample than most 29 y/o ballplayers, it's that 1st year line of .292/.356/.505 which is looking more like the outlier than the norm now that he followed it up with two near identical seasons of essentially .250/.300/.450 (.251/.298/.446 to be exact). That's not a bad ballplayer, especially when the arm and GG nomination are mixed in, but it hardly suggests a great one, particularly for a corner OFer, or one that would jive with Sandy's OBP-loving philosophy.

[Edgy MD]

seawolf17 wrote: BUT he's only 26.

Frayed Knot wrote: Turned 29 just last week according to BB-Ref -- DOB 10/18/95 -- plus, being Cuban, there's always the chance that he's a shade older than that even.

That's a dramatic birthday. A little over-the-top on the partying.

Frayed Knot wrote: So the guess would be that he is what he is at this point. And while his career is obviously a smaller sample than most 29 y/o ballplayers, it's that 1st year line of .292/.356/.505 which is looking more like the outlier than the norm now that he followed it up with two near identical seasons of essentially .250/.300/.450 (.251/.298/.446 to be exact). That's not a bad ballplayer, especially when the arm and GG nomination are mixed in, but it hardly suggests a great one, particularly for a corner OFer, or one that would jive with Sandy's OBP-loving philosophy.

That would be a disappointing season from Cuddyer.

When a ripped-right-down-to-the-ankles man arrives from a world outside the MLB testing universe, makes a big initial splash, and then falls back to earth in the following seasons, I tend to feel... cautious.

[ashie62]

I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him.

His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots.

I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me.

I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof.

He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David.

Do it!

[Frayed Knot]

I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him. -- Yet he didn't make either of the two parks he played in this year (one favoring pitchers, the other decidedly NOT) look all that small

His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots. -- There's power, and then there's usable power. I'll give up the exhibition HRs in favor of real ones.

I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me. -- You mean you're not going to let what actually happens on the field dissuade you? You might at least want to consider it.

I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof. -- Take a middle of the lineup hitter out of any team and things will change. But it's still at least a partial coincidence

He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David. -- Or Duda right now ... or Granderson in an average season for him .. or even d'Arnaud on a per/AB basis
A player should hit more than low-mid 20s before he earns a "Big scary slugger" moniker. I realize we're not in the 70/year era anymore, but a BSS should at least get more than that in three seasons.

Do it -- It depends on the price Ugarte, on the price.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Carlos Delgado: big scary slugger.

Carlos Beltran: big scary slugger.

Mike Piazza: big scary slugger.

This guy at 27 and 28 has produced a tick below the level Eddie Murray did as a Met when he was a decade older.

[ashie62]

Frayed Knot wrote: I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him. -- Yet he didn't make either of the two parks he played in this year (one favoring pitchers, the other decidedly NOT) look all that small His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots. -- There's power, and then there's usable power. I'll give up the exhibition HRs in favor of real ones. I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me. -- You mean you're not going to let what actually happens on the field dissuade you? You might at least want to consider it. I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof. -- Take a middle of the lineup hitter out of any team and things will change. But it's still at least a partial coincidence He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David. -- Or Duda right now ... or Granderson in an average season for him .. or even d'Arnaud on a per/AB basis A player should hit more than low-mid 20s before he earns a "Big scary slugger" moniker. I realize we're not in the 70/year era anymore, but a BSS should at least get more than that in three seasons. Do it -- It depends on the price Ugarte, on the price.

We are going to have to agree to just disagree.

Duda, Granderson or maybe d'Arnaud? That's for comic effect, right?

[Frayed Knot]

Ashie62 wrote: We are going to have to agree to just disagree.

Hey, I'm merely cautioning peeps about getting overly enamored of Cepedes on account of his first good season (which he's been unable to duplicate in the two years since) or on account of his prowess in what is essentially a glorified version of BP (the ASG HR contest).

Duda, Granderson or maybe d'Arnaud? That's for comic effect, right?

No, those are current NY Mets who hit HRs at rates similar to, or greater than, what Cespedes did this year despite your claims that the Mets haven't had a "scary slugger" like him since the days of Strawberry or Kingman.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Guest

[Guest d'Kong76]

This thread has changed, posters have to own what
they type... not just for a couple of hours.

[Frayed Knot]

While we're on the Cepedes front in our OF search: Bill Madden suggests that the BoSox are willing to trade him this winter, probably for pitching help.
Seems that there were some initial discussions after the trade about a 4-5 year extension onto his original deal which runs out after 2015, but that Cepedes recently fired his agent and is now casting his lot with Jay-Z's 'Roc-Nation' agency with the intention of making a splash (a la Robinson Cano) as a FA a year from now. He also throws in nuggets about Cepedes's "open disenchantment" with Boston and his unwillingness to listen to coaches. �He marches to his own drum and the coaches all hate him,� said a Red Sox insider.

[Ceetar]

The big scary slugger is Duda anyway.

[MFS62]

Ceetar wrote: The big scary slugger is Duda anyway.

Nah. He's more like the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man in Ghostbusters. He still is big and powerful and can cause a lot of destruction. But he's kinda' cute and cuddly, not scary.

Later

[ashie62]

d'Kong76 wrote: This thread has changed, posters have to own what they type... not just for a couple of hours.

Not sure what this means.

[ashie62]

While we're on the Cepedes front in our OF search: Bill Madden suggests that the BoSox are willing to trade him this winter, probably for pitching help. Seems that there were some initial discussions after the trade about a 4-5 year extension onto his original deal which runs out after 2015, but that Cepedes recently fired his agent and is now casting his lot with Jay-Z's 'Roc-Nation' agency with the intention of making a splash (a la Robinson Cano) as a FA a year from now. He also throws in nuggets about Cepedes's "open disenchantment" with Boston and his unwillingness to listen to coaches. �He marches to his own drum and the coaches all hate him,� said a Red Sox insider.

Poop.