Shortstop 2015

[Vic Sage]

i wouldn't trade a young, good-hitting catching prospect for an aging utility guy on a 1-year deal, even a very good utility guy. Zobrist would be an upgrade over Murphy at 2b, but since his range is no greater than Flores', i'd like to see what Flores greater upside can produce (as long as we're not going to get a good, established SS). If we traded for Zobrist, and then traded Murphy for Castro (for example), i'd be fine with that.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, that price would be high. But since every team in baseball can use a guy like Zobrist, he's perhaps going to be bid up. And if that happens, the Mets may be better off giving Eric Campbell a Zobrist jersey and calling the bluffs of any fans on ledges.

[Frayed Knot]

I agree. Good catching prospects, even if they're still just prospects, don't grow on trees and giving one up for a one-year player isn't a good idea IMO.
Looking at things from Tampa's POV, Gee will make less money than Zobrist in 2015, is five years younger, has a 3.85 ERA over his last 3 seasons/71 starts, and is under control for 3 more years. Would we really need to sweeten the pot much beyond that?

Do they need pitching? ... Everyone needs pitching.

[Vic Sage]

Gee for Zobrist makes sense to me; if it's not enough for TB, then pass.

[Edgy MD]

Tampa's rotation:

Alex Cobb: 10-9, 2.87 and 11-3, 2.76 in 2013.
Chris Archer: 10-9, 3.33 and 9-7, 3.22 in 2013.
Drew Smyly: 9-10, 3.24 and 6-0, 2.37 in 2013 with Detroit.
Jake Ordizzi: 11-13, 4.13 as a rookie.
Nate Karns: 1-1, 4.50 and 9-9, 5.08 in AAA

Plus: Matt Moore: 0-2, 2.70 and 17-4, 3.29 in 2013, out until late June or early July after recovering from TJ surgery.
Alex Colome: 2-0, 2.66 and 7-6, 3.77 in AAA.

So it's not like they can't use Gee (or Niese or Colon), pushing Karns and Colome back to AAA until a need arises, but that's a pretty solid young rotation.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Vic Sage wrote: Gee for Zobrist makes sense to me; if it's not enough for TB, then pass.

Gee's a 29-year-old who's missed significant parts of the season in 2 of the last 3 years, and has never put up a traditionally good-- like, above-league-average-- season. Zobrist, while 34, is a guy who plays credible defense at 4-5 positions, including both middle infield slots, AND OPS-es .750 or so in down years. And, oh yeah, he's severely underpriced. Pardon my French, but zat offer is skull-fucking ridiculous, mon ami.

You see if they'd take Gee-plus-Plawecki or Niese-plus-Rosario-plus-Puello; you think long and hard when they come back with Plawecki-and-Montero, and you hope it settles somewhere in between.

[Frayed Knot]

Gee did have a terrific 'year' if you count it from June '13 through May '14, and while he's had injuries they've not been of the structural arm variety (I'd be more leery of trading for Niese if I were other teams for that very reason - lost velocity, etc.). And do keep in mind that this is for all of one year of Zobrist and it's the year he turns 34 (does he even get 600 ABs on this team?).
So while the ultimate price of this theoretical exercise might wind up as Gee-plus, it would be plus much if I were calling the shots.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Again, though... as a 19-year-old who's already held his own and then some for two years in the f*cking Serie Nacional (and dominated-- DOMINATED-- any and all lower levels at which he played), AND has projectable tools? If you don't blow the bank/take a budget-penalty for this guy-- at a position of need for the organization, no less-- well... why roll the dice on anyone, right?

No, but seriously, look at this Moncada guy. The Good Face, built like he should be in our Superhero Tourney, that bat speed, that nimbleness around the bag... hell, just look at the footspeed.

[Frayed Knot]

Agreed that he should be looked at, but he may not be a SS and he's almost certainly not going to be a 2015 solution even if he is.

[Edgy MD]

Marlins acquired Dan Haren in the Dee Gordon trade. Dan Haren said he insists on playing with a west coast team or he will retire. He even declined the Fish's invite to a press conference following the deal.

So, the Marlins want a pitcher, but he's not looking to fit the bill. So, Mets send one of their three starters to Miami, Haren goes back to the west, and said west coast team (San Francisco? Seattle? Shmanaheim?) sends the Mets a shortstop.

is this a possibility?

[Vic Sage]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Vic Sage wrote: Gee for Zobrist makes sense to me; if it's not enough for TB, then pass. Gee's a 29-year-old who's missed significant parts of the season in 2 of the last 3 years, and has never put up a traditionally good-- like, above-league-average-- season. Zobrist, while 34, is a guy who plays credible defense at 4-5 positions, including both middle infield slots, AND OPS-es .750 or so in down years. And, oh yeah, he's severely underpriced. Pardon my French, but zat offer is skull-fucking ridiculous, mon ami. You see if they'd take Gee-plus-Plawecki or Niese-plus-Rosario-plus-Puello; you think long and hard when they come back with Plawecki-and-Montero, and you hope it settles somewhere in between.

the Mets don't need an excellent utility guy for 1 year; they need a SS for the next decade. If you're ok with Zobrist's D at SS, then lets just go with Flores and see how he develops there. He's got at least as much range as Zobrist at SS and is more than a decade younger, significantly cheaper, and his minor league power shows upside, whereas Zobrist's power is declining. I like Zobrist as a super utility guy for a contending team, not as a starting SS for a young, building team.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Vic Sage wrote: I like Zobrist as a super utility guy for a contending team, not as a starting SS for a young, building team.

I like Zobrist the exact same way, homes. It's just that I think he could be that for us, this year.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This is a fantasy-based assessment but gets to my point on Flores: He can hit, and the Mets need hitters. Also raises the point of his value if Wright is stinky again.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Internet commenters, I know, but that's a violently divided audience on Wilmer. Makes me want to tune in!

[Edgy MD]

I like the notion that the Mets can/should look for something between two and half months and two and a half seasons out of Flores at short, all the while believing that they can get a more well/rounded answer out of Reynolds/Cecchini/Rosario, while Flores remains a future investment at other positions around the infield --- insurance against Wright's shoulder not healing, Herrera not developing, Duda becoming mired in his enigmatic Dudaness.

[Guest d'Kong76]

More of the same...
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/where-do-things-stand-at-ss-for-the-mets/

[ashie62]

Jurickson Profar to begin throwing.

[Frayed Knot]

So the (not yet official) signing of Asdrubal Cabrera by Tampa Bay has the tongues of NYM watchers a-wagging about the availability of either Yunel Escobar and/or Ben Zobrist.

So the answer to the question as to which of Zobrist or Escobar the Rays would trade appears to be: BOTH!! ... and in the same deal no less.
The SF Chronicle reports that a swap to send both middle-IFers to the A's is nearing completion with Oakland sending catcher John Jaso eastward along with two minor leaguers.



And the Korean SS Jung-Ho Kang appears to be on the verge of a four-year deal with Pittsburgh who had previously won his negotiating rights.
The two sides have until Jan 20th to complete a deal.

[Edgy MD]

Anybody who boos Flores on opening day gets such a noogie.

[G-Fafif]

Ken Rosenthal reports Mets were approached to take part in 3 way deal that would've landed Ian Desmond, Ben Zobrist and Yunel Escobar in DC & two top Mets prospects (of 3) in St. Pete. Mets needed to give up Noah S. Desmond has 1 year left to FA.

Mets said no.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/washington-nationals-new-york-mets-tampa-bay-rays-ian-desmond-ben-zobrist-trade-011115

[Fman99]

Good for them. Noah S. and another top prospect for one year of Ian Desmond is too steep.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, that's the kind of deal you'd pull the trigger on if you're coming off an 89 win season and just know that you're one player away.
But when you're a 79 win team still hoping that you're on the cusp of contending and will have only one year of control over the only player you get out of the deal, you have every right to balk at the price.



Gotta love the inventiveness of the deal though!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The Rays did get something like what they were looking for from us-- the package the A's gave up made it seem a pretty atypical Beane trade, at least on its face.

Yeah, I'm okay with that... but if the price had been negotiable down to 2-3 sub-Syndergaard pitching prospects, or Montero/Plawecki, say...

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The Rays did get something like what they were looking for from us-- the package the A's gave up made it seem a pretty atypical Beane trade, at least on its face. Yeah, I'm okay with that... but if the price had been negotiable down to 2-3 sub-Syndergaard pitching prospects, or Montero/Plawecki, say...

Maybe it might've been. until the A's jumped in.

My biggest concern with Sandy is that sometimes he seems aghast at current market prices. I agree in this case that this wasn't a good deal to overpay on, but at some point he's going to have to and I hope he's prepared to do so

[Edgy MD]

"I'm building a great organization and people are going to overpay me for my assets." --- S. Alderson

[Lefty Specialist]

Anybody who boos Flores on opening day gets such a noogie.

[Edgy MD]

Desmond is a little bit of fool's gold, isn't he? I mean, 24 homers from a shortstop is great, but he's not doing much else if his OPS+ is 103. Flores can do that, I think.

Pretty good glove, though I wouldn't say it's necessarily better than Tejada's.

Good player, but not for one year at those prices.

[Ceetar]

well, that's the low end of a 3-year arc and 103 OPS+ for a SS with at least a decent glove is pretty valuable, but yeah, it's not like Desmond has a long history of being awesome.

[Edgy MD]

Certainly pretty valuable.

[Guest themetfairy]

How could anyone boo this face?