Nothing But Flores

[Ceetar]

More than I would've guessed as well. Is that accurate? I know sites do defense weird. Sometimes they count a guy's total production if he played there even a little. Like, Eric Campbell didn't put up nearly 200 AB in left field.


B-R has the total at 2.6 WAR, but again, that's counting all of Campbell

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm not with 28. Sorry, Muffy.

Mets have enough to absorb the "loss" at 2B and help themselves more by redeloying the Muffy $$ elsewhere. That's what I think. Ceetar is on the other side. Anyone else have an opinion?

[Edgy MD]

Sometimes they count a guy's total production if he played there even a little.

Yeah, I suspect as much too. Still the bulk of that is Young and he's almost all LF. So if it's even lower --- 1.8, 1.9 --- trading Daniel for his equal in left field value is an upgrade, assuming that the 3.5 that they get more than 1.8 or 1.9 at second.

And considering the options available at second, that wouldn't be the craziest gamble.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm not with 28. Sorry, Muffy. Mets have enough to absorb the "loss" at 2B and help themselves more by redeloying the Muffy $$ elsewhere. That's what I think. Ceetar is on the other side. Anyone else have an opinion?

I don't disagree. At least, I don't disagree that they're assets and the relative costs of them suggests that this is a reasonable course of action.

But you seem to have more confidence than the room --- and a lot more than Ceetar --- in Flores himself. Can you elaborate on what inspires this confidence?

[Vic Sage]

you mean besides youth and talent?

i don't have any projections for Flores, but trading Murphy doesn't scare me as much as going into next season with those 2 major holes still in the lineup. According to ESPN, Murphy has put up 2 WAR, and has averaged around 1.5/full season, and is currently ranked 12th in WAR, with the top 7 2bmen putting up 2x-3x as much. Even with bounce-back years from Wright and Granderson, and our great pitching, Murphy is not getting us over the top. But there are 47 OFers who have put up at least that much WAR, and the top end is even larger proportionally. I want me some of that.

[Edgy MD]

I hear all of that.

I was just hoping Bucket could elaborate on what he sees in Flore at second or short.

Youth? Well, they all have youth until they don't. That ain't enough. Talent? As I said, the talent I see so far is mostly expressed in solid hand-eye coordination.

What he mainly has going for him is a minor track record. And in that rather solid track record, he's almost never hit as soon as he's gotten called up a level, but 100 or 200 plate appearances in, he turns a corner and doesn't look back, so I'm willing to wait him out.

What I'm not so thrilled about doing is giving him a job outright, when his only real weapon --- hitting a doubly .300 --- hasn't been unpacked yet. Let's see some torque in that swing and see some more balls land in the gap.

[Edgy MD]

There you go, Wilmer!

I mean, that TOTALLY was a hanger in his wheelhouse, but I like the notion that his line tonight is him turning the corner.

[ashie62]

I'd hate to see Wilmer Flores breakout as a hitter with another team. He could be a very nice core player for the 2015 championship Mets.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Heck, that double almost left the yard, too!

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

Edgy MD wrote: Let's see some torque in that swing and see some more balls land in the gap.

Asked and answered.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I really meant to reply but was on a train and my signal was going in and out. I do believe he's out homered Muffy already. Very nice right handed swing, very good track record, youth, affordability, size -- he's not far from being a real monster, given his height. To me he looks like the kind of guy you don't give up on right away.

[nymr83]

really like this guy, even if his defense never justifies starting him full time i think we'll be happy to have him on the roster until he gets priced off the team

[Zvon]

Those feets are made for trotting.

[Guest themetfairy]

Why yes, I'm smiling. I had the game of my life last night!

[Edgy MD]

Nymr83 wrote: really like this guy, even if his defense never justifies starting him full time i think we'll be happy to have him on the roster until he gets priced off the team

If the bat plays, few are gonna care much about the glove.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Here's where you say, "Murphy is our second baseman. We have no plans to trade him this offseason." And then wink, like, so hard you go Popeye for a day or two from the aftereffects. You don't want to Ike your trading leverage like last time.

Murphy is what he is, and at absolute best maybe a little more, and he'll begin to get increasingly expensive (and approach decline) really soon. It's not just the ceiling of Flores that makes this doable-- we've also got the floor of a good-glove, on-base-y Herrera.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I like Murphy a bunch. This team needs power, which he doesn't supply a lot of. You need to have guys on base to have the power guys drive home. But I don't know about a long-term commitment to a guy Murphy. If we can make him part of a package to get a power bat, I'd be for that. But I also think the Mets tried to trade him all last winter and came up empty.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

To be fair, he's pushing thirty hard, and even if you JUST take offense into account, he isn't a perennial-all-star level piece. (And as for defense, well... never mind Herrera; Flores is already Murph-plus with the glove.) He's a good hole-filler, really, and not the centerpiece of anything.

But, yeah, combine with Niese, or-- better-- a young arm like Montero, and...

[Centerfield]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Here's where you say, "Murphy is our second baseman. We have no plans to trade him this offseason." And then wink, like, so hard you go Popeye for a day or two from the aftereffects. You don't want to Ike your trading leverage like last time. Murphy is what he is, and at absolute best maybe a little more, and he'll begin to get increasingly expensive (and approach decline) really soon. It's not just the ceiling of Flores that makes this doable-- we've also got the floor of a good-glove, on-base-y Herrera.

Yup.

I know this maybe somewhat reactionary, but I think I am willing to go into next year with Flores, Matt Reynolds and Tejada at SS. There are only a few difference makers at SS around, and I don't think any are available (except maybe Hanley, but there is a lot of baggage there). If I had to make a choice, I'd go with the in-house candidates at SS and go all in on a stud LF.

Of course, I'd love for the Mets to one day realize they are a big market team, and sign Hanley, sign the Cuban LF guy, then win the World Series.

[Edgy MD]

Well, Reynolds would likely have to start the season at AAA, as having three shortstops really handicaps your bench. (Nobody to handle the Satin/Campbell job of right-handed alternative to Duda.)

Important to consider about last night's productivity is that, while it may be representative of a bright beginning for Flores, it's probably as easily understood as a bitter end for Brad Penny.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Nymr83 wrote: really like this guy, even if his defense never justifies starting him full time i think we'll be happy to have him on the roster until he gets priced off the team If the bat plays, few are gonna care much about the glove.

Well yeah, we certainly have evidence across town that a subparagraph defender can stick around at SS for a l o n tv time if he hits enough.

[Edgy MD]

I love that spellcheck has corrected "subpar" in your post to "subparagraph."

Derek Jeter is totally subparagraph.

[Ceetar]

Flores is out of options too, which clearly factors in.

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: I love that spellcheck has corrected "subpar" in your post to "subparagraph." Derek Jeter is totally subparagraph.

Haha

[MFS62]

Talking about Flores' defense, specifically range, here are the numbers for shortstops who have played more than 400 innings this year. He stacks up pretty well. Not as bad as many thought.


http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=400&type=1&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=25,d

Later

[G-Fafif]

Hasta la vista, baby!

[youtube:7r4xt99c]uOdo3o5Un4k[/youtube:7r4xt99c]

[Edgy MD]

That was a real hangerino from Penny, am I right?

[G-Fafif]

Brad Penny establishes a very select group comprised solely of pitchers twho have given up one or more home runs as a Florida Marlin youngster to New York Met veteran Todd Zeile and as a Miami Marlin veteran to New York Met youngster Wilmer Flores.

[Edgy MD]

themetfairy wrote: Why yes, I'm smiling. I had the game of my life last night!

Is this your shot? Because it appears to have been used by New York Sports Day.

[Guest themetfairy]

It is indeed my shot!

Do you have a link to the article?