Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

[Guest d'Kong76]

Warm your buns here! Or Terry's.

[Zvon]

I don't buy this "its the managers fault they aren't fired up" bullshit. I'll make a judgment after June 2.

[metirish]

I think Kase is being a bit "tongue in ass cheek", but yeah, team looks fucking awful.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I'm joking around, not selling any [u:2h6gh9ql]fill-in-the-blank[/u:2h6gh9ql] bullshit.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I could see Terry taking a hit but things would have to get pretty awful first. I don't think Team Brainiac leaving until the club is sold or improves. This is the pilots we got.

[smg58]

Too early. There's a real possibility that the Nationals are simply a better team than us right now (shh, don't tell anybody). Plus when the bullpen era is 3467.83, there's only so much the manager can do. Well I suppose he could leave his starters in, but if anything Wheeler threw too many pitches today.

[Edgy MD]

'tain't the bullpen.

Terry's seat may not be particularly hot, but there's no harm in starting the watch early to measure temperature fluctuations as they wax and wane.

[Mex17]

http://nypost.com/2014/04/04/awfully-early-to-be-lifeless-already/

I like Collins, but this bears watching.

I know that there are new rules about home plate collisions this year that are still a bit confusing, but that being said I don't think that Tejada will ever be mistaken for Pete Rose, especially when you look at a few nights ago.

I even think that Ike could have beat out that force play to end yesterday's game if he was running a bit harder. Looked to me that he pulled up early anticipating the result.

If a change is to be made, the answer is in Las Vegas. Keep uniform #6 at the ready.

[TransMonk]

I don't think Terry is going anywhere this season, but I've already seen some alarming things through three games in addition to the Tejada-plate play.

Neither Parnell nor C. Young should have been playing in a regular season MLB game. Some of the blame may be on the players masking the severity of their injuries and some of the blame may go to the medical/training staff for not properly diagnosing these injuries. But Terry is ultimately in charge of making sure his players are ready to play and/or making the proper roster moves accordingly. Now we have two cogs in the 2014 wheel on the DL...one for at least 6 weeks and possibly out for the year. Could Terry have prevented these injures? Probably not...but he should have been able to keep these obviously (to me anyway) still injured players off the field.

I don't have too many gripes about Terry's in game chops (though, I probably would have pinch hit for Colon in the 5th inning of game 2. I understand that Terry is playing to his strengths (starting pitching) and away from his weaknesses (bullpen), but I feel he punted on an opportunity there). I also can't make too much of 3 games...but some systemic problems from years past are evident: too many strikeouts and not winning at home.

My win total expectations for 2014 are not that high, but I would like to see some obvious improvements as I feel the rotation in 2015 and beyond has the potential to be very special. But the rotation won't matter if Terry can't help turn some of the young offensive players we have into consistent everyday starters. Tejada and Davis have regressed over the past 3 years while Wright, Murph and Duda have been more or less consistent. I'm hoping d'Arnaud or Lagares can have a breakthrough year to give some young hope on the offensive side of the ball to go along with the rotation of the future.

I understand that he has not had a lot of talent in the past (and I shudder to think what the Mets record would look like without the contributions of Dickey in 2012 or Harvey in 2013), but I think he's got a bit more to work with this season and would like to see some steps forward (especially on offense) in looking to the future. 90 win is fun rhetoric, but I'd be pretty happy if he could just finally get to 80.

[Lefty Specialist]

Terry will be here all year as long as they don't become the 1962 Mets.

Regarding Parnell, it was obvious to all that he wasn't 100% during spring training. Probably should have stayed behind in PSL, but that would have meant opening the season without a closer. Don't know if that would have affected (prevented/prevented from getting worse) the tear, but there had to be a lot of pressure to bring Parnell north.

Young's injury, well, it was obvious he wanted to be out there, and guys will ask into the lineup even when they're not in top form. There, it's the trainer's job to say 'no'. They have all kinds of sophisticated ways to test things like quads. So somebody didn't do their job.

[Ceetar]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Regarding Parnell, it was obvious to all that he wasn't 100% during spring training. Young's injury, well, it was obvious he wanted to be out there, and guys will ask into the lineup even when they're not in top form. There, it's the trainer's job to say 'no'. They have all kinds of sophisticated ways to test things like quads. So somebody didn't do their job.

Parnell didn't report the pain until after Opening Day. Granted their were alarm bells, but you don't just send guys for tests if they're not reporting pain.

Chris Young probably passed the tests. He was scratched OD but probably precautionary. Then he ran hard for a fly ball and didn't make it to the bottom of the inning.

But this isn't on Terry. Guys are on the roster and say they can go, they go. It's Sandy's job to DL/hold back guys.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: Parnell didn't report the pain until after Opening Day. Granted their were alarm bells, but you don't just send guys for tests if they're not reporting pain.

His velocity was WAY down prior to Opening Day, which should be the #1 alarm that pain is not being reported.

Ceetar wrote: Chris Young probably passed the tests. He was scratched OD but probably precautionary. Then he ran hard for a fly ball and didn't make it to the bottom of the inning.

It's just hard for me to believe that Young passed any tests without running hard. What kind of tests would they be if they didn't simulate game situations? The first game situation he was put into caused him to hit the DL.

Ceetar wrote: But this isn't on Terry. Guys are on the roster and say they can go, they go. It's Sandy's job to DL/hold back guys.

Where does the buck stop? The guys on the roster are running the show? I disagree that it is all (or even mostly) on Sandy to diagnose injuries. Anything happening on the field during the game should be on Terry.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There was a time last season, sometime around mid-June, where the Mets were in such a malaise, and Terry seemed so helpless and frustrated, that a firing seemed imminent. But the team snapped out of it (they won 8 out of 12 starting June 16) and that probably saved Terry's job.

I do think that Terry's two-year deal makes it pretty likely that he'll last the season, but a prolonged dismal stretch could get them to overlook that second year. If there's a stretch where they go 3-20 or something like that he can very well find himself gone.

I don't expect that to happen, and I certainly hope it doesn't happen, but that's what I think it would take for the Mets to change managers in 2014.

[Ceetar]

There's a difference between "Go sprint" and the snap reaction to chase after a baseball. Perhaps the decision to DL him WAS Terry/etc being smart about it, where Young probably said "I can go tomorrow".

But Terry is given a roster of 25 guys. He has to work with the information he has. If Parnell says he's healthy (and let's face it, it's not like he was getting smacked around.) then you use him.

If Chris Young can run for you, you put him out there. I'm not really sure what else he can do.

These aren't "obvious" injuries. Chris Young could still run and take BP. Parnell could still hurl a baseball 93 MPH.

I'll agree I haven't been thrilled with the level of perceived preparation the last few years, and I include Collins and Warthen in that regard, as guys ready to play and pitchers pitching enough to have actual arm strength are important. But nothing that's happened injury wise really is Terry's fault or avoidable in any way.



But anyway, if there's a plan in place for beyond Terry, chances are that it won't happen in-season unless they think a change gets them into the playoffs. If the plan is Backman or Teufel, which I'm hoping it's not, then you should've just given him the job this season and been done with it. If you already know the NEXT Mets manager, you might as well put him on the field now.

[TransMonk]

I guess if I were Terry I would have left Parnell behind in PSL until he could come close to hitting triple digits like he had in the past. Even if Parnell says he's healthy, it would be obvious to me that if he wasn't hurt he would need more time to get his velocity back up. Again, would this have saved Parnell from the DL? Probably not...but I'm not sure what the reasoning was for bringing him north other than a lack of options and a whole lot of hope that everything was OK despite warning signs.

Same with Young. I would have made him sprint from his position to the foul pole five times in a row with me watching him in the outfield during BP. Maybe he did something similar and Young passed the test, but it surprises me that the very first time Young ran in a game situation he pulled up limping. His situation was one where one or two more days of healing might have saved him a trip to the DL.

There is also the issue of how much he can trust his players now that two of them have basically tried to cover up injuries. I understand why athletes do this, but part of being a good manager seems to me to be the ability to establish a certain level of trust that helps prevent these situations from occurring.

[ashie62]

Chris Young reported that he had tweaked his quad in Montreal...

If the Mets go like 3-18 Terry might get whacked...

[TransMonk]

Terry's looking good on the Duda call today, though.

[Edgy MD]

Ashie62 wrote: Chris Young reported that he had tweaked his quad in Montreal... If the Mets go like 3-18 Terry might get whacked...

If a team goes 3-18, John J. McGraw may get whacked.

[TransMonk]

Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat.

Is five times enough to get the stink off?

[Gwreck]

Well, he is under contract for 2015 already. I can't see the Mets eating that contract.

He certainly hasn't earned any extensions past 2015 however.

[Edgy MD]

I can't see any reason they wouldn't if it was the move they wanted.

[bmfc1]

He should be fired for that bunt attempt alone.

[MFS62]

"Fail. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett

Later

[ashie62]

Terry...thank you for your efforts and good luck in your future endeavours...

[MFS62]

"Sometimes, the hardest part isn't letting go. Its learning to start over". - Nicole Savon

Later

[Edgy MD]

You ever notice how, in comic strips, the person on the left always speaks first? -- George Carlin

[MFS62]

Nice quote. I liked Carlin, too. But both of my quotes were pertinent to my feelings about Collins. I feel its time to move on.

Later

[ashie62]

It has to be at least being talked about by the higher ups to let Terry go.

[TransMonk]

I support moving on from Terry more with each embarrassing loss.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I don't think he's the problem, but at this point I
guess a fresh face next spring would be ok.