Daniel Murphy

[Centerfield]

OPS of .692 is not going to cut it from a guy in the lineup for his bat. And even amongst second basemen, he is 13 of out of 18 that qualify. His defense has been much better than expected, but that level of production isn't enough to warrant keeping him as he becomes more expensive.

The guy does have a career OPS of .752, which if he bounced back to form would make him 9 out of 18. He has been as good as .810 (2011, albeit shortened season) and that would put him at 6th, and in All-Star contention.

He looked great when he came up (OPS of .870 in his first 130 AB) but hasn't come close to matching that level of production since.

Interesting call for Sandy to make as he moves forward.

I would love to see what Flores can do in the bigs, and if he is as clunky in the field as advertised.

[metirish]

On the radio yesterday Josh was trying to make a comparison with Wayne Garrett ,I think his point was , Murphy is a guy fans look at and wish they had someone else and before you know it he's here a decade.....Howie kind of brushed it off with a " yeah but defense is not something you ever worried about with Garrett".

Keith loves Murphy doesn't he? "pencil Murph in for every game yyybbb".

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Muffy pulled the same shit last year, becoming a crappy singles hitter for a period of about 5 or 6 weeks, before going back to being the regular kind of doubles hitter that he can be.

He's an interesting case. I think he could be traded, if there's a team looking for a 2Bman out there. OTOH, he's really become a Met, and like a lot of our guys, probably won't bring a whole lot back in a deal.

[Edgy MD]

Find a team that could use a lefthanded hitter that plays first, second or third or can come off the bench for a pinch hit. I'm sure somebody is out there. It would be seemingly a Sandy move to trade Murphy while everybody's looking at Byrd.

I'm not sure what they'll do and I ain't adovacting, but besides Flores, a real option going forward at second is Eric Young.

[metirish]

In that role he would probably be a good pick up for a team like St. Louis.....probably knock in the winning run in the WS.

[Edgy MD]

I was thinking the Dodgers, who are old, uninspiring, and righthanded at second and third, with Mark Ellis and Juan Uribe. Jerry Hairston and Nick Punto are leading them in pinch-hit appearances and Don Mattingly will tell you, neither of them are Don Mattingly.

And speaking of Don Mattingly, as a lefthanded hitting contact hitter who goes to all fields and hails from North Florida, Murphy is probably Mattingly's cup of tea. I bet he scouted him for the Yankees and spooged all over his report.

[Frayed Knot]

The weird thing about Murphy is that conventional wisdom from a couple years ago was that if he could ever prove to be able to handle 2nd base defensively he would, at worst, be an above average player for a decent amount of time. The hang-up was that many (including me) assumed that the required defensive skill would never appear.

And now it turns out that, while the defense is good enough, it's the offense that isn't.

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: The weird thing about Murphy is that conventional wisdom from a couple years ago was that if he could ever prove to be able to handle 2nd base defensively he would, at worst, be an above average player for a decent amount of time. The hang-up was that many (including me) assumed that the required defensive skill would never appear. And now it turns out that, while the defense is good enough, it's the offense that isn't.

Exactly this. And he's getting worse. What do we do?

This situation is even more complicated because Murphy is just one a few question marks that Alderson has to figure out. (Murphy, Davis, Duda, Valdespin)

[Edgy MD]

Oh, I don't think there's any figuring out with Valdespin. Any more than, say, Greg Burke. Last year, he was a fringey player with the talent to be more than that and the makeup to be less. At the beginning of this year, he was the same. Right now, he still is. Such guys come and go. The fringe is there for a reason. His future's in his hands, more than Alderson's.

[Frayed Knot]

The other thing about Murph is how his walk rate is falling.
It was never high to begin with, but in the minors his walk rate (OBA - BA) over 1,100+ PAs was .061 - just slightly below the norm of around .065-.070
In the majors prior to this year through 1,700+ PAs it fell to .047 - below average for sure but not absurdly so
This season that gap is just .032 (a rate that's below the career pace for the notoriously free-swinging Pudge Rodriguez) so that, even if he were to hit .300 or more, he'd still have a mediocre at best OBA with not a lot of power.

[smg58]

He's not more than a couple of good weeks from getting his numbers back up to his career norms, so I wouldn't panic over performance (of course, I've been saying that most of the season at this point). The questions to ask with him are whether or not he's replaceable in-house (I'm fairly certain the answer is yes), and can he get us something worth having. Third base seems to be a more in-demand position right now than second base; I could see the Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians having interest in him at third, but maybe the Dodgers among contending teams would see him as a clear upgrade at second. So I think the answer to the second question depends on whether other teams think they could deal for him today and pencil him in at third tomorrow. He might be easier to move in the offseason.

[Centerfield]

"Hey Centerfield, fuck you."

[Zvon]

lol. perfect picture too.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, it serves us right for trying to decide his fate in the middle of a slump.

Or maybe it served him right for slumping right as the trade deadline approached.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, it serves us right for trying to decide his fate in the middle of a slump. Or maybe it served him right for slumping right as the trade deadline approached.

He's been really streaky the last two years. I think we've got a pretty good sense at this point overall, what Daniel is, let's not let the peaks and valleys sway us too much.

[seawolf17]

I like Murph, but strike while the iron is hot and trade him between games to the Nats for Anthony Rendon and a prospect.

[Edgy MD]

Can you remember the last time the Mets made a deal with the opponent between games of a doubleheader?

All I can remember is Jos� Cardenal acquired for cash between games of a doubleheader between the Phils and the outfielder-hungry Mets.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

seawolf17 wrote: I like Murph, but strike while the iron is hot and trade him between games to the Nats for Anthony Rendon and a prospect.

LoL. Throw in Lagares for Harper.

[Centerfield]

Centerfield wrote: "Hey Centerfield, fuck you."

"Oh, and in case you missed that, fuck you again."

[Guest vtmet]

Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors?

it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)...

[Ceetar]

vtmet wrote: Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors? it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)...

he's occasionally made the error all year long, don't think it was more or less before or after the couple of games over there. Just regular error stuff though, overthrows mostly. Nothing catastrophic like.

[Frayed Knot]

vtmet wrote: Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors? it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)...

I think you're searching for a pattern which isn't there.
Besides, he started a string of six games at 1B about six or seven weeks ago. If the brief trial at a different position back then were in fact causing his errors ever since and up to now then he'd be essentially useless as a defensive player.

[Guest vtmet]

15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago...

[Ceetar]

vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago...

It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"?

[nymr83]

Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago... It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"?

I'd say "somewhat below-average". Nobody really seems to agree on defensive stats, but all of them say he costs runs at baseballreference.

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago... It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"? I'd say "somewhat below-average". Nobody really seems to agree on defensive stats, but all of them say he costs runs at baseballreference.

Well, he could still be slightly above average and cost them runs, depending. ;-) I think defensive stats are a little too negative across the board usually.

Fangraphs gives him a 1.1 UZR/150 which is good for 12/19 of qualifying. Only 19? hmm. That's slightly below average although 1.1 implies more good than bad. If you lower the threshold to 300 innings, he's 19/35. He's above 0 in terms of double plays and range, but negative on errors.

I guess it really depends on what you're looking for it. He's certainly doing a good enough job for the Mets. He's 9/16 of qualified hitters on Fangraphs in WAR. I mean, if you want to pay Cano..I don't think the Mets are in that position to pay that type of free agent starting in 2014.. Otherwise Murphy is probably the most efficient guy, payroll/roster adjustment wise, they can get.

[Guest vtmet]

I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop...

[Ceetar]

vtmet wrote: I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop...

Not sure I'd say that. This year, sure, overall? nah.

[smg58]

smg58 wrote: He's not more than a couple of good weeks from getting his numbers back up to his career norms, so I wouldn't panic over performance (of course, I've been saying that most of the season at this point).

After yesterday, he's up to .286/.320/.421, as opposed to his career line of .290/.335/.426. That only took a couple of days.

[Guest vtmet]

Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop... Not sure I'd say that. This year, sure, overall? nah.

I've never been impressed with Tejada as a shortstop...he's an ok 2nd baseman or utility guy, but not really a decent MLB shortstop...