The Dickey-to-Toronto trade

[Benjamin Grimm]

E-mail from the Mets wrote: METS ACQUIRE TRAVIS D'ARNAUD, JOHN BUCK, NOAH SYNDERGAARD AND WUILMER BECERRA FROM TORONTO FOR R.A. DICKEY, JOSH THOLE AND MIKE NICKEAS The New York Mets today announced that they acquired catchers Travis d'Arnaud and John Buck, righthanded pitcher Noah Syndergaard and outfielder Wuilmer Becerra from the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for righthanded pitcher R.A. Dickey and catchers Josh Thole and Mike Nickeas. TRAVIS D'ARNAUD (pronounced "DAR-no") The 23-year-old d'Arnaud was ranked by MLB.com as the 11th-best prospect in all of baseball and the best catching prospect this past September. The righthanded hitter batted .333 (93-279) with 45 runs scored, 21 doubles, two triples, 16 home runs and 52 RBI with a .380 on-base percentage in 67 games with Toronto's Triple-A affiliate, Las Vegas (AAA) of the Pacific Coast League, last season. The Long Beach, Calif. native missed the final two months of the season after suffering a tear to the posterior cruciate ligament of his left knee which did not require surgery. He was named the Eastern League's Most Valuable Player in 2011 after hitting .311 (132-424) with 72 runs scored, 33 doubles, 21 home runs and 78 RBI with a .371 on-base percentage with New Hampshire (AA). D'Arnaud also led the EL with a .542 slugging percentage and was named the league's best defensive catcher by EL managers. A former first-round compensation selection by Philadelphia in 2007, d'Arnaud was acquired by the Blue Jays in the trade that sent Roy Halladay to the Phillies in December, 2009. The 6-2, 195-pounder has hit .286 (523-1,828) with 133 doubles, 66 home runs, 289 RBI with a .343 on-base percentage and a .474 slugging percentage in six minor league seasons. D'Arnaud has been named to four minor league All-Star teams during that span and twice played in MLB's Futures Game. His older brother Chase is an infielder with the Pittsburgh Pirates. JOHN BUCK Buck, 32, has 48 home runs over the last three years (2010-2012), the third-most in the majors as a catcher behind Brian McCann (63) and Matt Wieters (53). The 6-2, 230-pounder also has 160 RBI while playing behind the plate, ranking sixth in the majors during that span. Buck was an All-Star in 2010 when he hit 20 home runs and drove in 66 runs for the Blue Jays. The Kemmerer, Wyo. native batted .192 (66-343) with 15 doubles, 12 home runs and 41 RBI in 106 games for the Miami Marlins last year. Buck has hit .235 (737-3,131) with 159 doubles, 118 home runs and 423 RBI during his nine-year career with the Royals, Blue Jays and Marlins. NOAH SYNDERGAARD (pronounced "Sin-Der-Guard") Syndergaard, 20, went 8-5 with a 2.60 ERA (30 earned runs/103.2 innings) and finished third in the Midwest League with 122 strikeouts in 27 games, 19 starts, for Lansing (A) in 2012. The 6-5, 200-pounder issued 31 walks and allowed three home runs while holding opponents to a .212 batting average. The Mansfield, Tex. native ended 2012 as the third-best prospect in the Blue Jays organization according to MLB.com. Syndergaard was Toronto's first round selection (38th overall) in the 2010 First-Year Player Draft. Syndergaard is 13-8 with a 2.35 ERA (46 earned runs/176.0 innings) and 196 strikeouts in 45 games, 35 starts in three minor league seasons. WUILMER BECERRA (pronounced "Wilmer Ba-Ser-ah") Becerra, 18, hit .250 (8-32) with four doubles and four RBI in 11 games with the rookie-level Gulf Coast Blue Jays last year. The 6-4, 190-pounder is the son of former St. Louis Cardinals scout and Venezuelan star Wilmer Becerra.

Looks like Buck will sneak in ahead of Brandon Nimmo to become the first Mets player born in Wyoming.

And d'Arnaud (the only player above not referred to as a "pounder") is now in a race with Matt den Dekker to be the first Met with a name that starts with a lower-case letter.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Oops -- I missed it. They're all "pounders".

[Guest themetfairy]

Swan Swan H wrote: 1994? Kurt Cobain was already dead when this kid was born. Boy, am I old.

That makes him younger than my older son....

[nymr83]

Keith Law also praised the Mets' haul here.

[Frayed Knot]

MLB players (off the top of my head) with a double-A in their names:
Kirk Saarloos - he was the one and only with two double-vowels
Moose Haas
Jim Kaat

there are probably others

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Frayed Knot wrote: MLB players (off the top of my head) with a double-A in their names: Kirk Saarloos - he was the one and only with two double-vowels Moose Haas Jim Kaat there are probably others

Some dude named Henry, played for the Braves.

[Frayed Knot]

Swan Swan H wrote: MLB players (off the top of my head) with a double-A in their names: Kirk Saarloos - he was the one and only with two double-vowels Moose Haas Jim Kaat there are probably others Some dude named Henry, played for the Braves.

Oh yeah, Tommy Aaron, I remember him. I think he had a brother who played too.
David Aardsma too, now the first man in baseball alphabetically.
Also one-time Met Don Aase

Edited December 17, 2012 by Guest

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Keith Law also praised the Mets' haul here.

instantly makes me question it.

[Gwreck]

Yeah, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about.

[Ceetar]

Gwreck wrote: Yeah, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about.

no, but his work is full of arrogance and smugness, and that makes me doubt the sincerity of most of his statements.

[Edgy MD]

Interesting that Dickey gets $1 million less than the supposedly discounted package he was asking from the Mets.

[Gwreck]

Ceetar wrote: Gwreck wrote: Yeah, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about. no, but his work is full of arrogance and smugness, and that makes me doubt the sincerity of most of his statements.

With all due respect, this makes no logical sense. Even if your claims of "arrogance and smugness" were true (I'd ask for an example but how would one even prove that?), that still provides no basis for motive or justification for disregarding the analysis.

"The sincerity of most of his statements?" What, is he being impolite? Or do you want to just come right out and say that he's making shit up?

[Frayed Knot]

More unusual seven-player trade oddity:
- this deal where four of the seven players swapped are catchers? (d'Arnaud, Buck, Thole, Nickeas)
or
- the McReynolds to the Mets deal where four of the seven players were named Kevin? (Kevin McReynolds + Adam Ging and Gene Walter for Kevin Mitchell, Kevin Brown, Kevin Armstrong and Shawn Abner)

[Ceetar]

I think he has a bias, particularly I think he is particularly set in his ways and dismissive of information he doesn't agree with. I think that colors his work. I'm sure it's all fine work, but given that it's nature is speculative anyway, I put little credence into his opinions. (And this was his opinion based on his research, it's not like he wrote a 5 page post on the trade)

Same way I feel about Rubin's holier than thou attitude and opinion. Bias and attitude colors it and nothing they do is unique or exclusive that i need to put up for it. So i'll continue to be dismissive of both of them.

[Edgy MD]

What ways is he set in?

All folks who give their opinions will disagree with others who publish opinions. Does he write stuff like, "John Sickels is wrong because he's ALWAYS wrong, and I wish he'd change his shirt once in a while. The funk off of that guy --- GEEZ!"?

All opinions about what will happen in the future are speculative.

[MFS62]

A Toronto story of the negotiations. A long cup of coffee.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/article/1303687--blue-jays-gm-alex-anthopoulos-on-payroll-a-personal-touch-and-the-art-of-secrecy-griffin

Later

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: What ways is he set in? All folks who give their opinions will disagree with others who publish opinions. Does he write stuff like, "John Sickels is wrong because he's ALWAYS wrong, and I wish he'd change his shirt once in a while. The funk off of that guy --- GEEZ!"? All opinions about what will happen in the future are speculative.

Neither is my opinion on him fact. Simply my opinion. That's all. And I certainly have no interest in PAYING for his. It's worth nothing to me.

[Edgy MD]

It'd be nice if you shared something about what your opinion is based on, seeing as how you disparaged him and all.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

The Dickey trade was briefly mentioned during a break in play in the cricket -- not sure if the point has been raised previously, but it was noted by one of the comms that Dickey relies on outdoor conditions more than most pitchers (Magnus effect, etc) but now he'll be pitching approximately half his games indoors.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: It'd be nice if you shared something about what your opinion is based on, seeing as how you disparaged him and all.

why? Am I building a case against him or something? I'm not squirreling away evidence or saving tweets or links over the years. This is how I find him to be.

[Edgy MD]

Because when you disparage a guy, you should be willing to back that up.

I hope when somebody trashes you, he backs his opinion up with accounts of things you actually did and said.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Because when you disparage a guy, you should be willing to back that up. I hope when somebody trashes you, he backs his opinion up with accounts of things you actually did and said.

I'm fine with people disliking me. I'm fine with them stating so if someone links me in another forum. Free country and what not. It's just chatter, I'm not writing a freaking essay here. Keith Law's statements mean less than nothing to me. I don't need to justify that, it's an opinion.

[Edgy MD]

You don't need to justify any of your opinions. You just discredit yourself if you don't.

[metsmarathon]

if you felt his opinion is bunk, would you not wish to persuade me to see his opinion as the same? would not my seeing his opinion as bunk aid in furthering the quality of metly discussion both here and in the real world?

ceetar says so doesn't quite do it, but a good persuasive argument might. i'd hate to keep on being led astray by keith law if i don't have to be.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: You don't need to justify any of your opinions. You just discredit yourself if you don't.

you are welcome to read and respect Keith Law. I wasn't trying to tell you you shouldn't, just that I don't.

I'm not trying to discredit him just stating my opinion that I find the source distasteful. I tend to completely avoid these types of people, not work to discredit them. If people have good things to write, they get out.

Specifically, I don't need his stamp of approval on the trade. I could say "Hey, John Meyer thinks the Mets trade was groovy!" but that's just another collection of opinion. relatedly, I also don't need Rubin's anonymous scouts saying things like:

I usually criticize the Mets, but this time I'm going to give it a thumbs up! Clearly because I normally attack them, my praise must carry more meaning!

or Rubin tweeting how weird it is to get texts praising the Mets.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: You don't need to justify any of your opinions. You just discredit yourself if you don't. you are welcome to read and respect Keith Law. I wasn't trying to tell you you shouldn't, just that I don't.

I know what I'm free to do.

Ceetar wrote: I'm not trying to discredit him just stating my opinion that I find the source distasteful. I tend to completely avoid these types of people, not work to discredit them. If people have good things to write, they get out.

I used the word "discredit" to refer to what you brought on yourself. But of course you were trying to discredit him.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: You don't need to justify any of your opinions. You just discredit yourself if you don't. you are welcome to read and respect Keith Law. I wasn't trying to tell you you shouldn't, just that I don't. I know what I'm free to do. I'm not trying to discredit him just stating my opinion that I find the source distasteful. I tend to completely avoid these types of people, not work to discredit them. If people have good things to write, they get out. I used the word "discredit" to refer to what you brought on yourself. But of course you were trying to discredit him.

only in the binary sense. Take a poll, "Do you respect Keith Law"

I'm voting no. I'm not sure why this needs a debate.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I wish I had some pizza.

[Edgy MD]

Now I do, too.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: I'm voting no. I'm not sure why this needs a debate.

'Cause we like to talk about things, instead of just saying things at each other.