RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

[ashie62]

Dickey don't be a dick, don't be a fool with your li-fe....

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ashie62 wrote: Dickey don't be a dick, don't be a fool with your li-fe....

Wow. Bo Donaldson. If he went to the Cubs or White Sox would we have gotten a little Paper Lace?

[ashie62]

John Buck's stats remind me of Arencibia, nice pop but Mendoza worthy.

[Guest attgig]

so, who's the minor leaguer we're sending?

[Frayed Knot]

Swan Swan H wrote: The deal is agreed to in principle. Toronto now has 72 hours to agree to an extension with Dickey.

Innuresting development in that Dickey has previously claimed he has no interest in pre-agreeing to an extension during such a small window so close to his one and only shot at true FA-gency. So if Toronto is serious about this no-extension/no-trade policy, and Dickey sticks to his previous vow and/or simply asks for such a high number that it effectively becomes the same thing, this whole thing could fall apart rather quickly.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's being reported that the deadline is 2 p.m. Tuesday, which is just about 48 hours from now. I wonder if the clock starting ticking yesterday afternoon, but we're just hearing about it now?

[Frayed Knot]

attgig wrote: so, who's the minor leaguer we're sending?

Assuming this turns out to be the rumored 4-for-3 structure being talked out, neither "extra" player has been named although they've been described as less substantial prospects.

[MFS62]

Entire civilizations have come and gone in less time than these negotiations have taken.

Later

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: The deal is agreed to in principle. Toronto now has 72 hours to agree to an extension with Dickey. Innuresting development in that Dickey has previously claimed he has no interest in pre-agreeing to an extension during such a small window so close to his one and only shot at true FA-gency. So if Toronto is serious about this no-extension/no-trade policy, and Dickey sticks to his previous vow and/or simply asks for such a high number that it effectively becomes the same thing, this whole thing could fall apart rather quickly.

Really? I mean, do that ever happen?

It seems to me that virtually every time a guy is traded to a team with a the contingency clause over a window to negotiate an extension, a contract is eventally consummated. I imagine that the trade doesn't even begin unless some figures have been bandied through a third party (such as the trading team) to ensure that the acquiring team and the player are in the same neighborhood.

Even if the extension doesn't come down in the window, I'd bet the deal would tend to go through anyhow, with the package sent for the un-signed player perhaps reduced.

[Frayed Knot]

RealityChuck wrote: I saw that they get to control him an extra year if they wait until June to bring him up.

Well, EVERY player gets his eventual FA target date pushed back a year if he falls short of the full six years of service time. It's not June though, just long enough that this year won't qualify as a full season and, six years hence, would only have 5+ years in the bigs and therefore have to wait one more season.
The arbitration date --the one that determines whether he'd be arb-eligible after 2015 instead of 2016-- is closer to late-May/early June but it depends on a number of other factors.

... but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: Really? I mean, do that ever happen?

I'm sure it has happened, although probably not often, and if the deal has gotten this far I suspect it will get done.
But if Dickey is determined to stick to his earlier vow, or if the Jays don't go as high as what he hopes (he could have stayed here and avoided all this mess if he were willing to sign for less than he wanted) then things still could collapse as word out of Toronto's camp is that they're reluctant to give up D'Arnaud for a pitcher w/only one year of control, even if it's a CY winner with a (relatively) low salary.

[nymr83]

what happens now if Dickey can't come to a deal with the Blue Jays? you'd have to think things have soured too much in NY already. Do the Mets take what they can get for 1 year of Dickey? I dont know what that is but its probably not d'Arnaud.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

If they can't agree on a contract extension the Mets will replace Dickey with a different 38 year-old right-handed knuckleball-throwing book-writing bearded Kilimanjaro-climbing euphemistically-named Cy Young winner.

[Guest Kong76]

This team just makes me physically ill sometimes. Maybe it's
the coverage of it on all levels. Seems like there's always something
or wrinkle or a fold or a twat or a ....

[ashie62]

If Dickey doesn't sign he kinda becomes a man without a team. He strikes me as a guy who could become very angry obstinate here having been painted as a villian and all.

Anyone seen John Franco the last couple days?

[RealityChuck]

Edgy MD wrote: I think the notion that the Mets rush their prospects if overstated, and most of the evidence supporting it is left over from the Minaya/Bernazard era.

Matt Harvey. Only twenty games in AAA.

[Ceetar]

RealityChuck wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I think the notion that the Mets rush their prospects if overstated, and most of the evidence supporting it is left over from the Minaya/Bernazard era. Matt Harvey. Only twenty games in AAA.

Harvey pretty met the stated plan of innings though. 20 games isn't nothing. I think the Minaya/Bernazard rushing thing is overstated too. They specifically put in the work to evaluate players and fast track guys they felt could handle it. It's so hard to ultimately decide if a guy was rushed and ruined because of it or overexposed, etc. Would Pelfrey have developed quality secondary stuff if he'd had another year in the minors? probably not. After all, he's shown to be a guy willing to work hard and incorporate other pitches in the majors, i.e. the split finger fastball. Could be simply that he's one of those hard throwing top picks that doesn't dominate. It happens.

But as for d'Arnaud, I'd be surprised at this juncture if he started in the majors. It's a stretch to think the 20ish games of him over Buck is going to have any significant impact on the results of 2013 and it buys them another year of control. Hopefully he hits just fine and gets called up and we read fun fluff pieces about him loving Piazza and all that.

[Edgy MD]

That's two thirds of a season for a starting pitcher. (And a successful two thirds.) Is that distinctly fast for a 23-year-old top pitching prospect with three years of college behind him? I don't know that is. Cole Hamels started three games at AA and and three at AAA, for instance.

They had a need in the rotation, and he was the best available option.

[nymr83]

50-70% of a season at AAA for a 23 year old doesnt seem like "rushing" to me, its about where i'd expect it to be, though a little longer would be just as defensible.

[ashie62]

I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target.

Now about that Dickey fellow. Cheer up young man you are being offered a lifetime of material riches.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Dickster has all the power here, right?

Except... if you're a 38-year-old heading into a walk year, following a year that will almost assuredly be your career best... are you going to let your one big FA multi-year deal ride on the hopes of having an injury-free 2013 that's an IMPROVEMENT over last year?

Unless something really silly happens-- or we're missing a crucial piece of information here-- he'll sign. It's in his interest to do so.

[metirish]

The whole trade comes asunder when they look at his X-Ray and see he is missing a ligament in his elbow.

[nymr83]

I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target.

I dont think thats true at all. While there may be some players capable of playing in AA, the overall level of competition is probably akin to the lowest levels of the US minors or the equivalent of the NY-Penn league. there will be a wider variety of talent though than there is at any given minor league level with the college players ranging from guys who are ready for AA to guys who wouldnt make hte first cut in minor league spring training camps.

[nymr83]

metirish wrote: The whole trade comes asunder when they look at his X-Ray and see he is missing a ligament in his elbow.

boc

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target. I dont think thats true at all. While there may be some players capable of playing in AA, the overall level of competition is probably akin to the lowest levels of the US minors or the equivalent of the NY-Penn league. there will be a wider variety of talent though than there is at any given minor league level with the college players ranging from guys who are ready for AA to guys who wouldnt make hte first cut in minor league spring training camps.

People said the San Diego State program that Strasburg went to was akin to AA, not sure the validity of it though.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes.

[Ceetar]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes.

Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works.

I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts.

[Gwreck]

Ceetar wrote: Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts.

That would be the problem that all teams with four straight losing seasons face, particularly when they price their tickets as if they're perennial contenders.

For the record, I think the trade is a good one. And is another good move by Sandy. But also speaks volumes that the Mets are planning on finishing in third or fourth place* in 2013.



*I assume there's no way we can be worse than the Marlins in 2013.

[Ceetar]

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts. That would be the problem that all teams with four straight losing seasons face, particularly when they price their tickets as if they're perennial contenders. For the record, I think the trade is a good one. And is another good move by Sandy. But also speaks volumes that the Mets are planning on finishing in third or fourth place* in 2013. *I assume there's no way we can be worse than the Marlins in 2013.

well, they price their tickets as entertainment in New York, it has nothing to do with record or quality.

Winning is what sells, and that's the sucky part of this trade, that it doesn't seem like they're committing to 2013. Keeping Dickey and mucking around in the outfield with..something..goes a long way towards selling rebuilding instead of selling 'coiled snake waiting for the right year to strike'. And more excitement in 2013 translates to revenue that carries over to 2014.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Ceetar wrote: Mets � Willets Point wrote: Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes. Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts.

And if any of those players has a good season they too will play for another team the following year. The Mets have become the Flushing Royals.