The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Edgy DC wrote: Old Hoss Radbourn ? @OldHossRadbourn I have not pitched in Boston in 122 years and I would punch G. Ordway in the mouth right now. B. Valentine gets a pass on this one.

That guy is a rip.

[Edgy MD]

The Second Spitter wrote: So much fuss over a .507 career manager with no regular season pennant.

I don't know about a "regular season" pennant. That's sort of parsing things.

A manager is a manager is a manager. Trying to look at records and pennants, as if they operate independently of the talent they're given, is impossible.

[Vic Sage]

the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons.

I hadn't realized that had become part of Phillips' name.

and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too

His teams went 494-460-23 (.518) with one Japan championship that became a pan-Asian championship when his Marines beat the Korean League champs. (He challenged Ozzie Guillen to put his US champ White Sox forward but the challenge unsurprisingly wasn't taken very seriously.)

He was ousted after a smear campaign by the Chiba Lotte ownership but the fans took his side overwhelmingly.

Here's the thing --- when you're taking the side of the cock-jock sports radio host, it's a good time reconsider your feelings. And the weeny position of "Hey, don't get mad at me --- I'm just repeating some baldfacedly bullshit backpage thing I read in the tabloids" is real real weak.

And to repeat, Valentine doesn't go ape here. He responds to a strong accusation strongly.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: And to repeat, Valentine doesn't go ape here. He responds to a strong accusation strongly.

And having strong feelings about things is not a bad thing. It's probably a good thing when it's about your job.

(this probably applies to other facets of life too)

i hope he doesn't get fired over something like that. The media seems intent on turning sports people into rhetoric spouting mush.

[metirish]

The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit.......

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit.......

Francesa asked a similiar question of Terry, only the narrative in NY is obviously about the players quitting on him. I don't remember how Terry answered it.

[Vic Sage]

Vic Sage wrote: ...But he didn't deserve it here and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons.

Edgy DC wrote: I hadn't realized that had become part of Phillips' name.

yes, he changed it after getting fired by the Mets so he could heighten his profile and get hired by ESPN... it put his brand right in their wheelhouse. Of course, he changed it to "Steve (I'll fuck the intern now, thanks) Phillips" after being fired by ESPN, for similar reasons. Now, reduced to working a few Angels broadcasts, i wonder who he'll fuck now? Probably his audience.

[Frayed Knot]

Joe Maddon sent out a tweet in the wake of all this apologizing for being late to a game due to his pedicure appointment running late.

[MFS62]

metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit.......

Have you ever listened to those hosts on WEEI sports talk radio in Boston?
I have.
And I'd like to punch some of them in the mouth, too.
There used to be one guy, who if you wanted to move the discussion to a non-Boston team, he'd hang up on you.

Later

[stevejrogers]

MFS62 wrote: metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit....... Have you ever listened to those hosts on WEEI sports talk radio in Boston? I have. And I'd like to punch some of them in the mouth, too. There used to be one guy, who if you wanted to move the discussion to a non-Boston team, he'd hang up on you. Later

The only time I listened to WEEI for an extended time was when David Cone was traded to Toronto.

The host was speculating that the soon to be free agent could wind up as the player to be named later that was to be headed to New York.

[Ceetar]

I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home.

I remember that, Christ, they killed him. Was it that long ago already?

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Ceetar wrote: I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home. I remember that, Christ, they killed him. Was it that long ago already?

apparently. looked it up and he was 2004-2005. they were still losers, so must have been September 2004. Seems like yesterday sometimes. oh time..

[Guest The Second Spitter]

The Genius falls to 29 games above .500 lifetime.....in 16 years of management in the Bigs.

[Edgy MD]

Like we wouldn't trade Terry Collins for him in a Boston minute.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Yes, I would.

But my opinion of White Jerry is right up there with the mouldy mildew you find in gym showers.

[Edgy MD]

As long as Ozzie Guillen is lacing 'em up, we don't have the worst manager in the division.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I like very much the idea of hiring Bobby Vee on a "make-good" deal to replace Terry if the Bosox whack him. If the FO were creative enough they could work out a "trade" whereby the Sox could move Bobby (and a portion of his salary) for some longshot prospect. Would save faces for 2 orgs -- Mets because they need the juice and a relative bargain wherever they can get them; Sawx can "fire" the guy with a little honor and show their fans they're listening.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

The only way I can rationalise rehiring Wile E. is his ability to get the most out of a shithouse squad (and lets be honest, we could be stuck with a shitty squad for a while). Also he seems to revel when the team lacks strong "clubhouse personalities".

That said, I'm almost certain the Wilpon's will balk at his salary demands, unless they go into PR damage control.

Then there's the question of how our in-house Mensa society and their strict observance of the Moneyball gospel, view his role. The Genius seems to work better under GMs who are more concerned with banging their PAs than day-to-day team affairs.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

The Second Spitter wrote: The Genius

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Centerfield]

Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons.

Yup.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Centerfield wrote: Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons. Yup.

Thanks for quoting this as I overlooked it the first time around. I'll add my Yup!

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: The Genius You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

That was epithet used to describe him at my previous Mets internet home. But i agree, something like "Honest Iago" is probably more fitting.

[Edgy MD]

Bobby Valentine says he was undermined by coaches From staff reports October 3, 2012 Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine said Wednesday he believed his coaches were not loyal to him this season and that he was undermined by them. In his final appearance of the season on WEEI�s �The Big Show,� Valentine confirmed there was dysfunction within the coaching staff, which came to light over the summer and was detailed in a Boston Globe story. One member of the staff, pitching coach Bob McClure, was fired in August. When asked by WEEI host Glenn Ordway why he thought his coaching staff was disloyal, Valentine replied, �You asked me what I feel. That�s what I feel.� He responded similarly when asked if he felt he was undermined by his coaching staff. Asked if he would like different coaches if he is brought back next season, Valentine said, �Some, yeah.� Speculation has been rampant that Valentine will be fired soon. The Red Sox play their final game of the season Wednesday night vs. the Yankees in New York.

[metirish]

weird

Bobby Valentine crashes bike in Central Park

Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine was slightly injured after crashing his bicycle in New York�s Central Park on Tuesday, the New York Times reported. According to the Times, Valentine said he was reading a text message from second baseman Dustin Pedroia when he had to swerve to avoid people in front of him. He fell off the bike and suffered minor injuries to his knees and hips. The message from Pedroia was to indicate Pedroia planned to play in Tuesday�s 4-3 loss to the Yankees despite a broken finger on his left hand. �I shouldn�t have been reading a text while I was riding. That�s the wrong thing to do,� Valentine said. Valentine is an avid cyclist. He said he was wearing a helmet.

[Frayed Knot]

Valentine is an avid cyclist. He said he was wearing a helmet.

He never was during that film of him managing in Japan.

[Edgy MD]

An open secret no more? Red Sox GM appears to confirm Bobby V.'s likely firing By Jon Heyman | Baseball Insider September 27, 2012 2:19 pm ET It has been an open secret Bobby Valentine will be let go by the Red Sox at the end of the season. But suddenly, it didn't sound like such a secret anymore. Red Sox GM Ben Cherington was asked about a prospective managerial search this winter in an interview Thursday morning on WEEI in Boston, and Cherington seemed to talk openly about how he will approach this winter's managerial search. "I'd always rather get the decision right than rush it," Cherington said on the radio. "But what we need to do is hit the ground running this offseason. One of the things that, as I look back on last offseason, that didn't go so perfectly was simply the amount of time we spent on the manager search and what that did to the rest of the offseason and I would like to spend less time on it this offseason, that's for sure." Now, the Red Sox's upcoming managerial search was no great secret, though Valentine himself told Red Sox writers only a day earlier he hadn't heard anything and suggested he was hopeful to return. Even putting aside Valentine's stance, no one expected any Red Sox bosses to comment on the strategy to replace Valentine, at least not until Valentine is actually fired. People can misspeak, and Valentine's critics would say he did so a time or two this year, and perhaps Cherington didn't mean to say what he said. But if you're not changing managers, why talk about wanting to spend less time on the search this offseason? Why not just say, thankfully we have a manager, so we won't have to spend any time on the search? Cherington responded to his seeming implication that Valentine was gone for sure, saying via text, "It had nothing to do with Bobby. But if it came across that way, my mistake." Valentine's supporters will say Cherington's comments on the radio were just the latest bit of evidence Valentine never had the support of his bosses. That it fits into a season where it was a split decision to hire him, with Cherington being steered by ownership to Valentine after he targated Dale Sveum and several others. That it fit into a season's theme of disrespect. Valentine's supporters might cite these other three occurrences ... 1. Cherington sided with Kevin Youkilis after Valentine suggested in a broadcast interview that he was surprised not to be getting the ususal effort from Youkilis. 2. A couple of the coaches were not punished in any way for acting like they didn't want Valentine to be the manager. 3. The owners met with 17 players at a secret gathering sans Valentine in New York to discuss issues with the manager and perhaps the coaching staff. Again, Cherington texted to explain his comments Thursday, saying it "had nothing to do with Bobby," and that's really about all he can say. (Valentine declined to discuss the radio comments.) Perhaps Cherington merely got confused for the moment, but it's hard to really understand how he was talking about an upcoming managerial search that wouldn't affect the current manager.

[bmfc1]

Fired. I'm sure he'll be back at ESPN any day now.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I know it's a sucker's game to say "never", but I'd bet that Bobby V. never manages another major league game. He's done.