Jason Bay

[metirish]

Sounds like he is being sat for the next few games too , Collins on the pre game talking about how it's darker here at Miller Park and that Bay might not be seeing the ball, yeah he actually said that . Collins then went on to talk about Bay sitting to give him time to " work on what they are working on".

Burkhardt then talked about a few things the Mets might do , sit him for a few games and hope whatever he and the hitting coach is working on fixes things and he " hits the ground running" or bench him and bring up Duda.

WOW

[ashie62]

This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball..

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Sounds like he is being sat for the next few games too , Collins on the pre game talking about how it's darker here at Miller Park and that Bay might not be seeing the ball, yeah he actually said that . Collins then went on to talk about Bay sitting to give him time to " work on what they are working on". WOW

Well, multiple players have cited Miller Park as being hard to pick up the ball. Beltran too on fly balls for instance.

But they're just grasping at straws for Bay. Might as well just go 'no comment'.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ashie62 wrote: This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball..

Smashie beats the rush to the broadest conclusions.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

.....needs to go back on Primobolan.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Edgy DC wrote: Ashie62 wrote: This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball.. Smashie beats the rush to the broadest conclusions.

If he wasn't white, somebody would have labelled him that way 2 months ago.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't know that fans are quicker to tag non-white players as busts, just maybe throw labels around as to why a bit easier.



As for Bay, they're going to have to use him at some point, not just because of the money but because it's too illogical to assume he simply forgot how to hit and will never get it back.
Even if he'll never be what they hoped you gotta figure he'll be at least decent again.

[Theoldmole]

Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad?

[Fman99]

All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout:21j0yqk5]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout:21j0yqk5] an extended stay in the minor leagues.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad?

He stopped using steroids.

[seawolf17]

Who? I thought we traded him for Jason Middlebrook a few years ago.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues.

Yeah, I've been thinking of making him Buffalo Bay for a while.

[Ceetar]

The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids.

He should've stopped the way David Ortiz stopped. or A-Rod. Not the way Jeter or Manny Ramirez did.

[Ceetar]

AND HERE COMES DUDA.

okay, only likely. Evans DFA though.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues. Yeah, I've been thinking of making him Buffalo Bay for a while.

He's Canadian. He should like it fine.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Bergen Record has a new nickname for Jason Bay: Slumpdog Millionaire.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Ceetar wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids. He should've stopped the way David Ortiz stopped. or A-Rod. Not the way Jeter or Manny Ramirez did.

Slappy is a HOFer with or without steriods. Papi had a 112OPS+ in the Majors as a 22 year old in the 98 (which is not to say he wasn't on the gas) but his numbers map-out a natural curve. Whereas Bay's minors numbers are a dog's breakfast.

The circumstantial evidence against Bay, while not irrefutable, is strong;
- Radomski was supplying the Pirates clubhouse.
- His minor league numbers spiked after he left the Padres
- A 132OPS+ rookie season in 2003 at 25 after career SLG% of 491 in the minors looks downright sus in my book.
- Phillips' "special case" comment (thought to be) implying that Bay was a "late bloomer", may have been Phillips' cute way of outing him. And let's be honest, Phillips is known for airing dirty laundry in post-GM life .
- The Boston clubhouse wasn't exactly the paragon of virtue for steroids use (but I accept that few were in and around that time).
- Shoulder injuries are known to be associated with steroid use (referring to the one he had in Boston).
- Finally, the benefits of using steroids are residual insofar you can retain the benefits for a number of years until a serious injury. However when the muscle degrades through inactivity the benefit is permanently lost.

[smg58]

Whatever the reason, I think the Mets need to hope that a team with a more hitter-friendly park is willing to gamble that all he needs is a change of scenery. I just don't see him giving the Mets more than Martinez or Duda could over the next 2 1/2 years.

[metirish]

smg58 wrote: Whatever the reason, I think the Mets need to hope that a team with a more hitter-friendly park is willing to gamble that all he needs is a change of scenery. I just don't see him giving the Mets more than Martinez or Duda could over the next 2 1/2 years.

agree totally about his production relative to those guys , Bay might not hit 20 home runs over the next few seasons as a Met, if a team did take him the Mets would be paying most of his salary to be sure.What a shame that his first trip back to Pittsburgh and he is benched.

Ojeda claims he got pull happy in Boston but that hardly explains his success in Pittsburgh does it?

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the Mets could trade Bay without throwing in about $40 million. And if you have to do that, there's little point to it.

[Ceetar]

It's certainly possible those other guys can outperform him, but let's wait for that to happen first. Obviously Collins isn't afraid to sit Bay so that should give those other guys opportunities.

Those guys are also probably pegged to replace Beltran if he leaves.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues.

Am hoping someone in the media starts to run with this idea. Bay surely won't like it, but he needs to play his way out of this and the Mets can't afford another 20 hitless ABs.

[TransMonk]

The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids.

I don't see this as being the case. It's not as if he was hitting monster bombs and now he only hitting pop flies.

His problem seems to be mechanical and has to do primarily with his hand/eye coordination. It's not an issue of strength...he's just plain not seeing the ball. His whole body (feet, core, head, hands) is out of whack.

I don't know what the solution is, but I would start with detailed one-on-one cage sessions with Hudgens followed up with watching some tape of his swing. It may be that Bay is not taking instruction from anyone and thinks he can fix it himself over time. If that's the case, it's not working, and he's a douche that deserves to get booed and ride the pine.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: I don't know what the solution is, but I would start with detailed one-on-one cage sessions with Hudgens followed up with watching some tape of his swing. It may be that Bay is not taking instruction from anyone and thinks he can fix it himself over time. If that's the case, it's not working, and he's a douche that deserves to get booed and ride the pine.

Hard to tell. It seems like he's doing that. His quotes have been the "right ones" so far. These things aren't simple, but I do think he should do more work. more advance scouting, more tape studying. or less. Maybe he's overthinking. There's very little thinking involved in smashing BP home runs (and very little to criticique in a swing I'd imagine) but if he gets up there guessing fastball in but is worried in the back of his mind about a slider away? Could that create a tick of hesitation that causes him to miss?

[Benjamin Grimm]

TransMonk wrote: It's not an issue of strength...he's just plain not seeing the ball... I don't know what the solution is...

[metirish]

If you are to believe what you read and from what Collins says then Hudgens tweaked his swing in Spring Training and then had him go back to his old swing at some point and that didn't work either, Collins also thinks he is hearing advice from too many people and that Bay maybe "talking to someone else too" but he doesn't know that, an old coach somewhere?.....anyway trying to read between the lines , never a good thing for me Bay needs to drop the bat and get away from baseball.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

hopefully he can turn it around, but looking pretty clear right now that he is the worst FA in Mets history, so I wondered how he compared to Fregosi - generally acknowledged as worst trade in Mets history. Its a close one:

Fregosi: 382 Abs 5 HRS 32 RBI BA .232 OBP .311 SLG .344

JBay*: 405 Abs 7 Hrs 49 RBI BA .239 OBP .326 SLG .353

these are Bays most recent 405 ABs - not his entire stay, but wanted to lok at them over a similar time frame.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The other thing to consider here is that Bay was expected to provide a lot more offense than Jim Fregosi was.

I do think that Jason Bay is the worst free-agent signing in club history. The salary is very high, and the production (if you want to call it that) is very low. What can compare to this? Roger Cedeno was a flop, but not so high-priced. Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced. Same with Vince Coleman, although his best days were behind him. Who else is in the conversation? Glavine? Pedro? Tom Hausman? It's hard to argue that any of them turned out worse than Bay has so far.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The other thing to consider here is that Bay was expected to provide a lot more offense than Jim Fregosi was. I do think that Jason Bay is the worst free-agent signing in club history. The salary is very high, and the production (if you want to call it that) is very low. What can compare to this? Roger Cedeno was a flop, but not so high-priced. Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced. Same with Vince Coleman, although his best days were behind him. Who else is in the conversation? Glavine? Pedro? Tom Hausman? It's hard to argue that any of them turned out worse than Bay has so far.

I agree. Nobody's even close, considering the money paid to Bay, his lack of production, and what was reasonably to be expected of Bay.

[metirish]

SNY on the pre game showed a stat, I think it was SLG and his compared trough the years to IIRC Doug Flynn, Rey Ordonez and basically some of the worst hitters ever to lift a bat.