Hat Talk

[metirish]

Alomar stated again today that he wants to wear a Blue Jays cap....in fact from what I could gather on twitter he was in the Rogers Center for the announcement.

[G-Fafif]

Piazza more defined by his Met experience than Dodger in popular perception (I took a definitive survey of myself and came up with that). The World Series plus 9/21/01 puts him over the top. He became a star baseball player in L.A. He became a celebrated figure in New York while remaining a baseball star. Played a featured role in closing and opening a stadium for the Mets. Dodgers have ignored him. Didn't even put 31 into mothballs.

Frank Robinson started as a Red, starred as a Red, played a long time as a Red -- but he's portrayed as an Oriole. Not a perfect precedent, but it seems reasonable. Robinson stepped up his profile as an O. Carlton Fisk played longer as a White Sock but nothing he did there transcended his time as a Red Sock. Gary Carter...he couldn't even outdo Dave Kingman as a Met according to CPF rankings, so no wonder he's an HOF Expo.

Groping for clues in quest of the desired outcome. I think we'll get it, but no, it's not a certainty.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Piazza's personal preferences notwithstanding, I think a reasonable case could be made for both the Mets and Dodgers. If I was an impartial HOF committee member deciding on Piazza's HOF plaque cap, I wouldn't consider Piazza's role in the Shea closing and CF opening ceremonies. That would be penalizing the Dodgers for not tearing down their beautiful stadium. And I wouldn't factor in the fact that Piazza's old Dodger uni # is still in circulation, either. Teams shouldn't have the ability to sway this decision. Do the Devil rays strengthen their case for a Tampa bay cap on Wade Boggs' head because they retired his uni #?

[Valadius]

If you had to rank Mike Piazza in terms of his worth to the Mets and to the Dodgers, he ranks in the top five Mets of all time, whereas his status in Dodger-dom is far less significant. Edge Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Wouldn't that be punishing the Dodgers for their richer history? The HR's Piazza hit for the Dodgers weren't less significant than his Mets HR's just because Snider and Hodges and Campanella once played for Dodgers.

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Piazza's personal preferences notwithstanding, I think a reasonable case could be made for both the Mets and Dodgers.

So do I, which is why I suspect his personal preference will - and probably should - tilt the balance in what is an otherwise even "race".
I should probably add here (and not for the first time) that I think this whole HoF 'hat' deal is a totally over-blown issue and aren't going to care a lot one way or the other. If Piazza's plaque has an 'LA' on it it's not like that negates the parts of his career spent here or elsewhere.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think you stay up nights thinking about this. You walk down the street, taking in seemingly random events, and wonder, "How is that going to impact what logo goes on Gary Sheffield's Hall of Fame plaque?" You scan the stock listings, see Circle K is down one and a quarter and think, "That's bad news for Arizonans' hopes for a perpetual 'db' on the bronze forehead of Randy Johnson."

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Since Piazza is a catcher, they could use one of those photos where he has the helmet on backwards so no logo would show on the front.

But I fully expect he'll go in as a Met. There are plenty of Dodger in the Hall, and just Seaver wears the Mets logo.

[Valadius]

Just so we're all aware, the Mets are tied with Detroit for the longest drought of players entering the Hall wearing their cap.

Current streaks: Team Length of Drought New York Mets 19 (1992) Detroit Tigers 19 (1992) Philadelphia Phillies 15 (1996) Atlanta Braves 14 (1997) Chicago White Sox 14 (1997) Cleveland Indians 13 (1998) Los Angeles Dodgers 13 (1998) Kansas City Royals 12 (1999) San Francisco Giants 12 (1999) Texas Rangers 12 (1999) Cincinnati Reds 11 (2000) Pittsburgh Pirates 10 (2001) Milwaukee Brewers 7 (2004) Chicago Cubs 6 (2005) St. Louis Cardinals 5 (2006) Baltimore Orioles 4 (2007) San Diego Padres 4 (2007) Boston Red Sox 2 (2009) New York Yankees 2 (2009) Oakland Athletics 2 (2009) Washington Nationals 1 (2010)

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Phil Niekro was pretty well traveled for a Hall of Famer. I always associate him as a Brave, but he got around in the latter portion of his long career.

There is a strong case to made for Piazza going in as either a Dodger or a Met. I say he should go in as a Met due to more seasons, more games played, more at bats, more hits, more home runs, and more RBIs as a Met.

[Willets Point]

There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame?

[G-Fafif]

Willets Point wrote: There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame?

Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list.

[Willets Point]

G-Fafif wrote: Willets Point wrote: There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame? Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list.

An asterisk may be more attractive than that funky M that always looked like it said ELO to me.

[G-Fafif]

There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame? Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list. An asterisk may be more attractive than that funky M that always looked like it said ELO to me.

Expo fan to Dawson one year ago regarding Andre's preference to be bronzed a Cub: Don't bring me down...

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in. Not a bad run for a team that only lasted, what, 25 years?

I suspect that Larry Walker, if elected, would be a Rockie and Randy Johnson would be either a Mariner or D-back.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Rusty could still back in and get tagged with an M.

[Chad ochoseis]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in.

Whoa, there...I know there's a huge groundswell of support for Raines here in the CPF, but he's still only at 37.5% in the BBWAA. I wouldn't forge his plaque just yet.

I was happy about Carter going in as an Expo despite his Metliness, because I figured he'd be the first and last. I didn't think Raines was quite good enough and Dawson wasn't even on my radar.

[G-Fafif]

Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in. Not a bad run for a team that only lasted, what, 25 years?

36 seasons, but it's a great point regarding the talent the Expos cultivated and nurtured. Two homegrown Hall of Famers, possibly a third, reaching the bigs and their potential in a period of about a dozen years: roughly Carter's standout rookie year of 1975 to that day Raines came back from collusion in 1987 and whacked the Mets around on the Game of the Week, which is the highlight they'll run into the ground should his election day come. By the time each left the Expos after about ten seasons with Montreal (Carter after '84, Dawson after '86, Raines after '90), you could have applied the tag "future Hall of Famer" and not been crazy.

Only Seaver and Ryan, among the now 11 Mets in the Hall, were developed as Mets, and only Seaver was consensus future HOFer material when he left the Mets (twice). If/when Piazza, Gl@v!ne and Martinez get in, the ratio will be 2 of 14. So for concentrated "immortal" impact, the Expos figure to have us beat for a while, pending Raines's electoral momentum and David Wright's ability to continue to be David Wright -- and to continue being David Wright right here.

But we're up two world championships to none on Montreal with the theoretical hope of more, so there, you hosers.

[MFS62]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I suspect that ..... Randy Johnson would be either a Mariner or D-back.

They were going to take his picture in a Yankee cap, to use as a model in case he was to go in that way, but he slugged the photographer.

Later