Rank your 2010 Mets

[Frayed Knot]

All right, it’s that time again.
You’ve ranked the rookies, you’ve ranked the starters, (hell, we’ve even ranked Beatle babes) so now it’s time to rank the whole rank lot of them.

As always (or for those who haven’t played before) we’re looking to rank the top 30 Mets as to their contributions to the 2010 season.
A reminder, one which may be more applicable this year than in most, is that we’re attempting to measure [u:2lpevgdf]actual contribution[/u:2lpevgdf] to the club this past year and not just how players did compared to salary or prior expectations. IOW, feel free to put Dickey ahead of Santana but only if you think he really had a better season, not just was better only when ‘graded on a curve’ of lower expectations or better bang for the buck. Ditto with, say, Pagan & Wright, or with anyone else who played this past year. Use whatever method you want, just be prepared to back up your choices and logic.

Results get compiled into our previous 49 years of ranks and are used to determine the best Mets of all time which show up on your posts under your name.

We get to pick our 30 from the 47 players appeared in a NYM uni this year.

27 different position players listed by most to fewest PAs:
Wright - Pagan - Reyes - Davis - Francoeur
Bay - Castillo - Barajas - Tejada - Beltran
Thole - Cora - Carter - Blanco - Feliciano
Duda - Tatis - Hessman - Mathews - Hernandez
Evans - Arias - Jacobs - Catalanotto - Martinez
Nickeas - Turner

and 20 Pitchers (seemed like more) sorted by Innings Pitched:
Pelfrey - Santana - Dickey - Niese - Takahashi
Feliciano - Valdes - Rodriguez - Dessens - Perez
Nieve - Maine - Acosta - Mejia - Misch
Parnell - Gee - Igarashi - Green - Stoner

[seawolf17]

Wright
Pagan
Reyes
Davis
Dickey
Santana
Pelfrey
Takahashi
Niese
Castillo
Rodriguez
Barajas
Bay
Beltran
Thole
Francoeur
Blanco
PFeliciano
Dessens
Valdes
Tejada
Carter
Cora
JFeliciano
Nieve
Acosta
Duda
Mejia
Gee
Parnell

[Edgy MD]

i've got some work to do here. The true legacy of Gary Matthews, Jr. may be that he took enough time away from Angel Pagan to keep him from being the top Mets player.

[Frayed Knot]

Looking at the position players first:


Only four players played essentially a full season which, along with their level of play, puts them a clear jump ahead of the rest.

Wright gets my top spot -- led team in PAs & ABs, 2Bs, XBHs & HRs (by a lot!), TBs, SFs, OBA, SLG, IsoP, Runs Created and RC/27 and those last two weren’t all that close either. OK, he also led in Ks & Errors ...

Pagan - a season as good or better than most of us hoped as he proved himself to be a real, live starting outfielder this year. Still, he barely out-hit Wright in BA despite leading by wider margins all year; didn’t walk much, had wide RH/LH splits and doesn’t slug like the corner OFer he mostly is on this team (at least for now). Very nice season and completely turned around his bone-headed running/fielding gaffes from the previous year, just not the best on the team.

Reyes - I’m giving him 3rd place amongst hitters over Davis on the basis of a similar number of XBHs (50 vs 53) and the position he plays and despite the lower OBP (33 pts)

Davis - seemed lost in the middle there for a while after a strong start and before his good finish. Stabilized the position defensively and managed to maintain a decent OBP (.351) even as the BA sank. Lots of Ks and GiDPs


Of the less-than full-timers:

Bay - Really?!? The 5th best offensive player? Ummm, yeah.
Look, as disappointing as he was considering the money and all, he managed 32 XBHs in 400-some PAs and a decent OBP (.351) while he was there even if the HRs were virtually non-existent.

Beltran - Started to come on at the end but too little too late.
Essentially had Bay’s stats only with half the ABs and not the edge defensively that he’d usually have.

Thole - Little power to speak of but got on base and impressed behind the plate.

Francoeur - 5th in ABs on the team. Ummm, played a good outfield and had a nack for the occassional big hit

Barajas - Solid six weeks of power. Then nothing.

Tejada & Castillo - Tejada made outs more often (.298 OBA) but also fielded better and at least managed to hit the occasional double so he wins this race. Castillo is next.

Carter - Most all-around useful bench player

Cora - Unfortunately, this is what backup middle infielders look like when pressed into full-time service.

Blanco - Threw out runners and hit like ... well like a backup catcher

Duda - Power and walks, even if not much else.
Felicano - A pinch-hitter with lousy OBA and little power. Was useful defensively.
Evans

Outside looking in: Tatis, Hessman, Mathews, Arias, Jacobs, Catalanotto, Martinez, Nickeas, Turner

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Pagan
Wright
Santana
Dickey
Davis
Pelfrey
Reyes
Niese
Takahashi
Thole
Beltran
Rodriguez
Bay
PFeliciano
Barajas
Parnell
Gee
Acosta
Blanco
Dessens
Castillo
Carter
Misch
Hernandez
Francoeur
Evans
Mejia
Duda
Valdes (for participation)
Tejada (for attendance)

[TransMonk]

David Wright
Johan Santana
R.A. Dickey
Mike Pelfrey
Ike Davis
Angel Pagan
Jose Reyes
Jonathon Niese
Hisanori Takahashi
Jason Bay
Jeff Francoeur
Francisco Rodriguez
Carlos Beltran
Elmer Dessens
Pedro Feliciano
Josh Thole
Rod Barajas
Luis Castillo
Dillon Gee
Manny Acosta
Chris Carter
Bobby Parnell
Ruben Tejada
Raul Valdes
Pat Misch
Jenrry Mejia
Alex Cora
Fernando Nieve
Henry Blanco
Lucas Duda

[G-Fafif]

30 Wright
29 Pelfrey
28 Santana
27 Davis
26 Dickey
25 Pagan
24 Reyes
23 Niese
22 Bay
21 Takahashi
20 Francoeur
19 Barajas
18 Tejada
17 Beltran
16 Castillo
15 Rodriguez
14 Carter
13 PFeliciano
12 Blanco
11 Gee
10 Thole
9 Evans
8 Valdes
7 Maine
6 Nieve
5 Duda
4 Dessens
3 Parnell
2 Mejia
1 Misch

I was intrigued by the word "contributions" in FK's mission statement. To me, contributions means contributions to winning. Thus, my methodology started with my own Schaefer point dispersal in the 79 Mets wins, rewarding those who led (generally the top three) on a daily/nightly basis. Then, understanding that my PotG balloting tends to de-emphasize relief pitching, I worked up a formula to put some kind of value (in addition to any reliever Schaefer points earned in wins -- there are never many of them on my scorecard) on usage in wins (particularly for Rodriguez and, when he was closing, Takahashi) and usage in a broader sense (with some emphasis on usage in wins) for other relievers. I figure non-closer relievers merit consideration for appearances and innings given they're often saving the bullpen for the next day. There was some counterweight included to take into account lousy relief pitching so as to give a more accurate portrayal of the reliever's season. (Nothing was given out for saves, per se.) Takahashi's total was an amalgamation of his starting, middle relieving and closing roles.

Other points were added if a position player or starting pitcher (as starting pitcher) was in more winning games than losing games (a frighteningly small cohort); for most appearances in winning games by position players; for being among team WAR leaders; for walkoff RBIs (because I tend to undervalue them in the Schaefer voting and I believe they help define the winning aspects of any season); and, because my watching this team for six months had to be worth something, a little gut instinct to massage the whole thing.

Wright placed first by a wide margin. Pelfrey set the pace among pitchers mostly because he was in the rotation the entire season, whereas Santana missed a month at the end and Dickey didn't appear for the first month-and-a-half. Davis's big impact came in winning games more so than Pagan's or Reyes's. Thole suffered from playing a lot while the Mets were terrible (record with Thole: 26-47) while Tejada benefited from playing in/arguably contributing to winning Mets games (record with Tejada: 42-36).

I spent way too much time on this.

[Frayed Knot]

Pitching comparisons:

Santana vs Dickey --
Very close seasons. One wasn’t there at the beginning, the other not there at the end. But in between had identical records (11-9) and both deserved better support. Similar ERAs (Dickey better by 0.14), and essentially identical WHiPs. Dickey actually walked fewer but didn’t K nearly as many.
I’m putting Johan up top on the basis of 3 extra starts and 25 more IP.

Pelfrey -- Led staff in wins, IPs, and starts. Was lights out for a while but also had more bad games than the above two which led to significantly higher ERA & WHiP numbers.

Niese -- 2nd on the team in games started and might have been up there fighting it out with the leaders if not for his late season crash ‘n burn.

Takahashi -- Allowed fewer baserunners/IP (WHiP) than anyone on the staff while flopping between starting (12 starts), long relief, medium relief & short relief, and finally was near flawless during a short stint of closing.

Rodriguez -- 25 saves vs 5 blown with a 2.20 ERA and reasonably low WHiP would be considered a decent to good year for a closer if not for how it ended.

Dessens -- Lower ERA than anyone on the team not nicknamed KRod while filling a variety of roles. Also walked very few (almost a freak show on this staff) which is how he was able to K just 16 batters in 47 innings and get away with it.

Parnell -- You’d like to see young guys like this less confined to specific roles, but he did OK at times with the limitations

Feliciano -- Too many walks (even if some were strategic) pushed his WHiP up high but maybe that’s part of the bargain when you appear in 9 games per week.

Acosta -- Too many walks (lather, rinse, repeat) but over a K an inning while less than one hit per.

Valdes --

Mejia --

Gee -- Acquitted himself well in a brief time

Misch -- Decent stats but appeared in just 12 games

Nieve -- Overuse caught up to him. Too many HRs

Igarashi -- ERA over 7
Maine -- WHiP near 2.00 and 8 HRs in less than 40 IP
Perez -- Like Maine but worse
Stoner --
Green --




Now I have to figure out how to combine the two halves.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Schaefer only recognizes the positive. Schaefer probably thinks that Dave Kingman is one the game's all-time, inner-circle greats.

[Vic Sage]

you mean he's not?

[Vic Sage]

purely gut reaction, with little to no analysis...

Wright
Pagan
Santana
Dickey
Pelfrey
Davis
Niese
Takahashi
Rodriguez
Reyes
Bay
Thole
Beltran
Dessens
Parnell
Feliciano
Acosta
Carter
Francoeur
Barajas
Tejada
Castillo
Duda
Blanco
Gee
Misch
Mejia
Nieve
Valdes
Cora

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Wright
Pagan
Reyes
Davis
Santana
Dickey
Pelfrey
Niese
Takahashi
Rodriguez
Bay
Beltran
Thole
Parnell
PFeliciano
Barajas
Tejada
Castillo
Carter
Acosta
Dessens
Blanco
Francoeur
Gee
Duda
Evans
Cora
JFeliciano
Mejia
Valdes

[Edgy MD]

30 Wright
* * *
29 Pagan
* * *
28 Santana
27 Dickey
26 Rodriguez
25 Davis
24 Reyes
* * *
23 Bay
* * *
22 Takahashi
21 Pelfey
20 Acosta
19 Francoeur
18 PFeliciano
17 Niese
16 Beltran
15 Dessens
14 Thole
13 Barajas
12 Parnell
* * *
11 Gee
10 Tejada
9 Castillo
8 Carter
7 Valdes
* * *
6 Blanco
5 Mejia
4 Duda
3 Misch
2 Evans
1 Hernandez

[TransMonk]

Edgy likes them relievers.

[Edgy MD]

Do I?

I just guess it shook out that way because of partial seasons by the Mets top two starters, and the other two coming in with a third-of-the-season block pitching consitently poorly.

But, of course, Rodriguez missed meaningful time (in volume, if not in import) too. I'll review.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Takahashi and K-Rod's relief stats are similar. So then why the disparity in WAR?

K-Rod 57.1 IP/2.1 WAR
Tak 122 IP/1.3 WAR

Was Tak so bad as a starter that his starter WAR approached -1.0?

Tak the starter:

WHIP 1.45
ERA 5.01
ERC 5.03
IP 64.2
K 54
BB 21
H 73

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/hand/left/split/127/league/nl/type/sabermetric/order/false/minip/40

[batmagadanleadoff]

Takahashi and K-Rod's relief stats are similar. So then why the disparity in WAR? K-Rod 57.1 IP/2.1 WAR Tak 122 IP/1.3 WAR Was Tak so bad as a starter that his starter WAR approached -1.0? Tak the starter: WHIP 1.45 ERA 5.01 ERC 5.03 IP 64.2 K 54 BB 21 H 73 http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/hand/left/split/127/league/nl/type/sabermetric/order/false/minip/40

My bad. This post belongs in the Franco McRosco thread.

[Frayed Knot]

Made a few minor adjustments from my preliminary lists and my earlier vote in the rookie thread.


30 - Wright
29 - Pagan
28 - Santana
27 - Dickey
26 - Pelfrey
25 - Reyes
24 - Niese
23 - Davis
22 - Takahashi
21 - Rodriguez
20 - Bay
19 - Beltran
18 - Thole
17 - Dessens
16 - Francoeur
15 - Feliciano
14 - Parnell
13 - Barajas
12 - Tejada
11 - Castillo
10 - Acosta
9 - Carter
8 - Valdes
7 - Mejia
6 - Cora
5 - Blanco
4 - Duda
3 - Gee
2 - Misch
1 - J. Feliciano

[Frayed Knot]

Bumping this up to the top seeing as how it’s been dormant for several weeks now.
Anyone who still wants to chime in with a list of their own, an update to an existing list, or just throw in some comments do so soon before we put this to bed.

What we have so far is a fairly tight consensus emerging - especially as compared to last year’s where opinions were all over the place with top ten votes according to one not even making the cut for another.
Here, so far anyway, the top 5 almost all got top 5 votes from everyone even if not always in the exact same order.

Beyond that:
- Pelfrey rates as high as 2nd place (GFaFiF) and as low as 10th (Edgy)
- Reyes varies from 3rd place (Seawolf) to 10th (Vic Sage)
- Niese goes from 7th (V. Sage & F. Knot) to 13th (Edgy)

Biggest spreads so far are for:
-Francoeur: as high as 9th place (TransMonk) and as low as 25th (VFC)
- Rodriguez: 5th (Edgy) to 16th (GFaFiF)
- Thole: 10th (VFC) to 21st (GFaFiF)
- Dessens: 14th (F. Knot) to 27th (GFaFiF)
- Tejada: 13th (GFaFiF) to 30th (VCF)
- Parnell: 14th (LWFS) to 29th (Seawolf)
- Acosta: 11th best (Edgy) to not mentioned (GFaFiF)

[TransMonk]

Frayed Knot wrote: Biggest spreads so far are for: -Francoeur: as high as 9th place (TransMonk) and as low as 25th (VFC)

I've got Frenchy in 11th place...as does Greg. That lowers that spread a bit.

[Edgy MD]

I'll supbract a few EDB* points from Rodriguez and drop him two slots, but the averaging will have to do the rest.

30 Wright
* * *
29 Pagan
* * *
28 Santana
27 Dickey
26 Davis
25 Reyes
24 Rodriguez
* * *
23 Bay
* * *
22 Takahashi
21 Pelfey
20 Acosta
19 Francoeur
18 PFeliciano
17 Niese
16 Beltran
15 Dessens
14 Thole
13 Barajas
12 Parnell
* * *
11 Gee
10 Tejada
9 Castillo
8 Carter
7 Valdes
* * *
6 Blanco
5 Mejia
4 Duda
3 Misch
2 Evans
1 Hernandez

*Enormous Douche Bag

[Frayed Knot]

Going ... going ...

[seawolf17]

I'm not sure why I put Parnell and Acosta so low. I slid them up, but everything else remains the same.

Wright
Pagan
Reyes
Davis
Dickey
Santana
Pelfrey
Takahashi
Niese
Castillo
Rodriguez
Barajas
Bay
Beltran
Thole
Francoeur
Blanco
PFeliciano
Acosta
Parnell
Dessens
Valdes
Tejada
Carter
Cora
JFeliciano
Nieve
Duda
Mejia
Gee

[Edgy MD]

I hadn't realized I had thrown Cora overboard.

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: I hadn't realized I had thrown Cora overboard.

Mostly because he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[Frayed Knot]

Figure to keep this open until New Years - so speak soon or forever ...

[Frayed Knot]

RANK	PLAYER
30	D. WRIGHT
29	A. PAGAN
28	J. SANTANA
27	R. A. DICKEY
26	I. DAVIS
25	M. PELFREY
24	J. REYES
23	J. NIESE
22	H. TAKAHASHI
21	J. BAY
20	F. RODRIGUEZ
19	C. BELTRAN
18	J. THOLE
17	J. FRANCOEUR
16	R. BARAJAS
15	P. FELICIANO
14	E. DESSENS
13	L. CASTILLO
12	B. PARNELL
11	M. ACOSTA
10	C. CARTER
9	R. TEJADA
8	D. GEE
7	H. BLANCO
6	R. VALDES
5	L. DUDA
4	J. MEJIA
3	A. CORA
2	P. MISCH
1	F. NIEVE

[Edgy MD]

Thole as 12th best guy is pretty stunning.

[Frayed Knot]

13th actually, but still.




btw, this thread should eventually be moved to the Ranking Forum.

[metsmarathon]

dangit... i'm working to update my spreadsheet and tehn tally everything up, for comparison sake. i wouldn't begin to suggest that i hold up the works. i just might offer up a dissenting opinion once i'm thru. the 'bot will surely have an interesting take, as well.