2011 Outfield (split from 2011 Roster)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, I'd sure like to know what you think should happen, since you're painting him out of the picture.

[ashie62]

I would like to see the new GM shop Beltran. If he can't Beltran is a Mets starter. If Beltran leaves I see three options. 1. Fernando Martinez 2. Doodah 3. Free Agent.

Which option do I like? probably a little too early to say as the Mets need to hire some people.

[HahnSolo]

Has Muffy permanently put away his outfield glove? Because I could see him being part of the mix as a jack-of-all-trades guy. And yeah his defense in LF left something to be desired, but we all saw that Duda and Carter each had their deficiencies as well.

[TransMonk]

Ashie62 wrote: I would like to see the new GM shop Beltran.

What do you realistically think we can get in return for Beltran who makes $18.5M next season and has not fully proven that he will continue to be the player that he was pre-injury?

[Benjamin Grimm]

If Beltran is healthy and productive, he can probably be traded to a contender next summer. Then again, if he's healthy and productive, then maybe the Mets will be a contender and they'll want to keep him.

But I can't see anyone trading for him before he takes the field again, unless they're giving up a similarly questionable $18 million player.

[seawolf17]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If Beltran is healthy and productive, he can probably be traded to a contender next summer. Then again, if he's healthy and productive, then maybe the Mets will be a contender and they'll want to keep him. But I can't see anyone trading for him before he takes the field again, unless they're giving up a similarly questionable $18 million player.

Exactly. And not for nothing, but his combined 2009-2010 line:

156 for 528 (.295), 17 HR, 75 RBI, 14-16 SB, 33 2B, 4 3B, .384 OBP/.470 SLG. That's a 130+ OPS. You're not going to get more than that out of another team's castoff OR Duda/Pagan/etc. Beltran could/should be the guy.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'm disappointed when I read that Pagan is regarded as perhaps, the best Met, or one of the best Mets, and a shoo-in for everyday outfielder. I see him as a platoon player whose PA's against left handed pitchers ougt to be kept to a minimum. He's ineffective as a RHB v. LHP, and thus, somewhat limited. He kinda sucks, actually as a RHB. Pagan shouldn't get most of those starts, and shouldn't be batting at the top of the lineup when he does start against LHP's.

Here are his 2010 splits:
Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.436
Batting righty v LHP: .261/.298/.394

Pagan's 2010 splits are remarkably consistent with his career splits:

CAREER:
Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.444
Batting righty v LHP: .251/.294/.414

As good as he is, his rate stats would be even better if he were platooned. A smart organization would be searching for a Tim Teufel to share PT with Pagan's Wally Backman.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mabye, but that guy better be good, because Pagan's also their best defensive outfielder every day.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Checking that out, bb-ref.com has him with the ninth-best WAR in the National League and the second-best(!) Defensive WAR.

Controversial, but impressive nonetheless.

[seawolf17]

And Pagan is in his prime.

I say trade him and get two good young players back.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Mabye, but that guy better be good, because Pagan's also their best defensive outfielder every day.

"That guy" doesn't have to be a better fielder than Pagan to justify his PT. He simply has to be a better overall player than Pagan against LHP's. I don't know where to find Pagan's WAR splits, but it's obvious that Pagan's overall WAR rate (War/some measure of playing time) is being dragged down by his inability to hit lefties. Anyways, as a matter of taste, I'm dead set against outfielders who can field but can't hit -- and that's essentially what Pagan is against lefties.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I neither said nor implied that a platoon partner had to be a better fielder. Going by those numbers, people who fit that description is limited to one (Michael Bourne). And that's not among outfielders, but all players --- shorstops and catchers and such. And that's considering that he didn't spend all his days in center. Isn't it quite an oversimplificaton to reduce these numbers to him being a guy "who can field but can't hit"?

Yeah, he, like everybody, should play until/unless they can get a better guy. But that better guy, even just against lefties, may be elusive. I don't think it's Nick Evans or anybody they have now.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: CAREER: Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.444 Batting righty v LHP: .251/.294/.414 As good as he is, his rate stats would be even better if he were platooned. A smart organization would be searching for a Tim Teufel to share PT with Pagan's Wally Backman.

Why go searching when you have this guy already at the league minimum:

as RHB versus LHP:
MLB 132 ABs: .322 / .379 / .512
2010 at Teufel A: .310 / .356 / .500

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: I neither said nor implied that a platoon partner had to be a better fielder. .

I know. Relax.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Pbbtttt.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

86-Dreamer wrote: CAREER: Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.444 Batting righty v LHP: .251/.294/.414 As good as he is, his rate stats would be even better if he were platooned. A smart organization would be searching for a Tim Teufel to share PT with Pagan's Wally Backman. Why go searching when you have this guy already at the league minimum: as RHB versus LHP: MLB 132 ABs: .322 / .379 / .512 2010 at Teufel A: .310 / .356 / .500

Whodat?

[ashie62]

TransMonk wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I would like to see the new GM shop Beltran. What do you realistically think we can get in return for Beltran who makes $18.5M next season and has not fully proven that he will continue to be the player that he was pre-injury?

The sense of satisfaction to not be concerned about Beltran's availabiltiy may be worth the 14 Million lost by Wilpon, not me. Shit, he's used to losing anyway.

[TransMonk]

Ashie62 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: The sense of satisfaction to not be concerned about Beltran's availabiltiy may be worth the 14 Million lost by Wilpon, not me. Shit, he's used to losing anyway.

I'll let you take that to Fred.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah. Even if it was worth $14 million to no longer worry about Beltran getting hurt, is it worth $14 million to have to worry about the possibility that you'll be paying him all that money to hit 30 homers for some other team?

If you're going to have to pay him anyway, it's better to keep him around and get whatever benefit you might get from his production.

Vanis takee!

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: CAREER: Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.444 Batting righty v LHP: .251/.294/.414 As good as he is, his rate stats would be even better if he were platooned. A smart organization would be searching for a Tim Teufel to share PT with Pagan's Wally Backman. Why go searching when you have this guy already at the league minimum: as RHB versus LHP: MLB 132 ABs: .322 / .379 / .512 2010 at Teufel A: .310 / .356 / .500 Whodat?

Nick Evans

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Probably not a center fielder however.

Evans seems to me to be the kinda player who'd flourish under Bobby Valentine.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

86-Dreamer wrote: 86-Dreamer wrote: CAREER: Batting lefty v RHP: .300/.351/.444 Batting righty v LHP: .251/.294/.414 As good as he is, his rate stats would be even better if he were platooned. A smart organization would be searching for a Tim Teufel to share PT with Pagan's Wally Backman. Why go searching when you have this guy already at the league minimum: as RHB versus LHP: MLB 132 ABs: .322 / .379 / .512 2010 at Teufel A: .310 / .356 / .500 Whodat? Nick Evans

Vs. RHP: Bay-Pagan-Beltran

Vs. LHP: Bay-Beltran-Evans?

Okay, I can maybe see that.