New Skipper Candidate Scorecard

[metirish]

A mess not of the Mets making.....glad it's happening though and he won't be coming here.

Meanwhile twitter is saying that Bobby V is not on any list for the Marlins, apparently that flirtation has come and gone....

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Perhaps the Mets can do Donnie Baseball a favor and take Matt Kemp off his list of projects for his first year.

[bmfc1]

Pearlman thinks it will be Bob Melvin:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jeff_pearlman/09/22/mets.manager/index.html#

We root for a "stale dish of plain noodles."

(As of this writing, Pearlman hasn't changed his mind.)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Read that first paragraph again. It's like he wakes up and says, "Well, fuck, I still hate myself."

What the hell is wrong with him?

On edit: I just completed it. He's officially transformed himself from bold, hardworking investigative reporter to deliberately hateful tabloid hack. It's heartbreaking.

[HahnSolo]

Backman is as beloved in New York as a Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray soda.

WTF? Does anybody drink that crap?

They tempt their fans with Lou Piniella and Dusty Baker,

I don't recall the Met-Nation all-night bender that had us being tempted by Dusty Baker.

Bengie Molina is seeking a catching gig? Meh -- we can land Rod Barajas!

And this was a bad move why?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I don't know how I made it past this second paragraph:

Come season's end (and for Mets fans, that day arrived two months ago), the Mets will fire manager Jerry Manuel and have their pick of three drastically different-yet-all-perfectly suited candidates to fill a position once held by such luminaries as Mike Cubbage and Art Howe and, eh, never mind.

Cubbage managed all of seven games as an interim. And Howe, who admittedly was not a good fit in New York, did with three division championships with Oakland, and did manage in other places. It's like saying Girardi filled a slot once held by luminaries such as Clyde King and Stump Merrill. The "ah, never mind" part might have included two Hall-of-Famers in Stengel and Berra, a future Hall-of-Famer in Torre, a near-Hall-of-Famer in Hodges, a champion in Johnson and a pennant-winner in Valentine.

And the Mets are not terrible, as he says. At roughly .500, they are mediocre and under-achieving. The Pirates are terrible. There's a difference.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I have quite literally never heard of Cel-Ray soda, much less heard a New Yorker wax philosophic about its charms (much LESS heard New Yorkers-- plural-- give it verbal love).

Perhaps it's popular in whatever straw-man-populated area of Brooklyn* where Pearlman lives these days.


*Drybroomsburg, actually. They're not much for conversation-- hell, they tend to just let you pummel them in any conflict situation-- but it's way fun for the kids. The arsonists, too.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I remember seeing that celery-flavored soda on sale in stores when I was at NYU in the first half of the 80's. An older guy that I worked with was certain that I'd love it, but since I didn't like celery, I had no interest in sampling celery-flavored soda. Now, though, I think I'd give it a try.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Dr Brown's Cel-Ray soda is a soft drink with a celery flavor. It is fairly easy to find in New York City and in South Florida. Outside the New York City and Miami regions, it is rather obscure but can sometimes be found at Jewish delicatessens and restaurants. In addition, it can be found at certain grocers that specialize in American food in Israel, and other specialty grocers. The flavor, derived from celery seed extract, is reminiscent of ginger ale but with a pronounced celery flavor that is more pungent or peppery than ginger ale. Dr. Brown�s Celery Tonic was, according to the company, first produced in 1868 in Brooklyn, NY. The Food and Drug Administration objected to its being called a �tonic,� and in the 1900s the name was changed to Dr. Brown�s Cel-Ray (soda). Cel-Ray was so popular in the 1930s among New York City's Jewish community, that it earned the nickname "Jewish Champagne." Dr. Brown�s briefly produced a diet Cel-Ray, but it was discontinued due to low sales. Other �celery tonics"/"celery sodas� were produced in the 1890s, but only Dr. Brown�s celery product remains today. Dr. Brown�s sodas are kosher and can be found in many delis.

Dr. Brown�s Cel-Ray� soda has its admirers and detractors. Much speculation surrounds the invention of this soda, which in its infancy was a mix of sugar, carbonated water, celery seed extract, and a few other flavors. Today the drink has gone the way of most sodas by adding the inferior high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar, and caramel coloring. It�s still an admired drink by many who grew up with it, especially those who would order it in Kosher or Jewish delicatessens. In fact Cel-Ray� soda has been dubbed the Jewish champagne, since many considered it the perfect accompaniments to salty meats like pastrami. Today, Dr. Brown�s Cel-Ray� soda is made by Canada Dry�. Initially the drink was developed in the late 1860s, and may have been sold as celery tonic instead of Cel-Ray� soda. The world questions the existence of a Dr. Brown who supposedly invented the drink. There is suggestion that a true Dr. Brown may have been a doctor in Brooklyn who invented the drink and who had a friend in the bottling business. No matter who the inventor was, Cel-Ray� soda soon became popular, especially in delicatessens as a nice light drink, rather than as a health tonic. Unlike most soft drinks, Cel-Ray� soda has more bitterness, and you�ll probably want to be a fan of celery prior to trying it. Most early soft drinks were considered healthful, but this is dubious, especially today, given the high fructose corn syrup the drink contains. It�s certainly not a health tonic, but instead a light, greenish tasting accompaniment best served with savory, salty or heavily spiced foods. People praise it as a fantastic drink on hot days when serving deli sandwiches. Many suggest the drink is an acquired taste, and others assert they could never acquire a liking for it. Supporters generally are used to it and have enjoy Cel-Ray� soda since childhood. Detractors tend to try it as adults and find it absolutely wretched. Some can�t get past the overt celery smell when a bottle or can is opened. If you�re a traditionalist who likes your soda sweet, you might try a few other Dr. Brown sodas. The cream soda is considered one of the finest on the market, though it too has diverged from its original recipe by being made with high fructose corn syrup. On the other hand, if you�re out having a big pastrami sandwich, you might want to pick up a can of Cel-Ray� soda and give it a try. Many people swear by the fantastic flavor which offsets salty meats. If you�re lucky enough to be in a Jewish delicatessen, you�ll likely find the drink available. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-dr-browns-cel-ray-soda.htm

[Guest themetfairy]

Dr. Brown's Diet Cream is a classic.

The celery soda made a pop culture appearance in the movie Tootsie; that's what was spilled over the third reel that necessitated the live shooting towards the end of the film.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Oh, the Diet Cream is great. (As is the Diet Black Cherry.) I love me some Dr. Brown's. I just am unfamiliar with the celery soda. I'd try it... but with limited expectations. I mean, in an absolute best-case scenario, it tastes remarkably like celery, right?

I don't know the guy, really, so you guys who do, please feel free to tell me if I'm off. Pearlman seems like he's reached the place in his career where he's kindasorta rooting for bad stuff to happen to folk, so that he's got something to write about that doesn't bore him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Joe Torre gets low marks on the David Wells scorecard.

[Willets Point]

David Wells only pitched for the Yankees for four seasons of his career? It sure felt that his Yuckiness lasted a lot longer than that.

[bmfc1]

I think it will be Bobby V. Here's why:

Next year could be a Knicks-like year for the Mets. No, that doesn't mean that they'll hire Isiah Thomas or draft a stiff from France. By that, I mean that with so many big contracts set to expire after '11 (Beltran, Castillo, Perez) and ownership alleged to have money woes, they will tread water financially in '11 and then plan to spend on FA's in '12. That means what we have now is what we'll get. And that means another .500-ish season. With no new big names, ticket sales will continue to drop. A way to try to counteract that is with a big name manager and that's Bobby Valentine.

He is supposed to want big money but I would think that he would take a discount to be able to live at his home in Connecticut and manage in a place with so many promotional opportunities.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

bmfc1 wrote: He is supposed to want big money but I would think that he would take a discount to be able to live at his home in Connecticut and manage in a place with so many promotional opportunities.

Hypothetical: You're fired from your job after a brief downturn in your team's performance (which follows a protracted period of success), somewhat unfairly. You leave to find work overseas and are successful there, too. You return to the country, and there's interest from many firms in your field... including the one that fired you (which is run at the top by the same people). Given that you've increased your desirability in the interim, why the h-e-dub-hockey-sticks would you give your ex-employers a discount?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Almost half the league is manager shopping, and with your face on ESPN, you're going to be in the conversation for all of them. That's too good a position for somebody to be in to expect him to take a discounted price, especially under the assumption that your team is richer and more valuable than any of the others.

That and the difficulty for powerful people of admitting mistakes are two big speedbumps for the Bobby Bandwagon, but still I hope.

[Lefty Specialist]

I think there's a fair amount of bad blood between Bobby and the Wilpons, but the absence of Steve Phillips makes it slightly easier to come back.

He won't take a discount. There's plenty of demand for his services and he's already turned down at least one job that we know of (the Marlins).

Bobby's good at managing a young team and getting them to overperform, as he did with the 97-98 Mets. Considering the 2011 team is shaping up to be a lot of kids, this is not a bad fit in that sense.

I think Beltran will have to go if Bobby V takes over, though, because he rankles veterans and gets on their case. He picks a player to humiliate each year, although 'humiliate' is probably too strong a word. He did it with Todd Hundley. He did it with Brian McRae. Not that they didn't deserve it, but they may not have deserved it as publicly as he did it.

And that gets to the essence of Bobby. It's HIS team. More than money to come back, he wants control. That means veto power over the GM. And he'll give plenty of quotes that'll have you cringing.

Bobby wears thin after a while. The kids become veterans and stop listening. The Todd Zeiles, Robby Alomars, Jeromy Burnitzes didn't buy into Bobby V. Neither did Rickey Henderson (not that he'd buy into anybody). I think we forget that when Bobby finally got fired, there was a sense of relief among Met-dom. He started well, but by 2002 he'd stayed too long at the fair.

Nobody manages in-game better. He undressed Tony LaRussa in the 2000 NLCS. But I just have a feeling it won't go as well this time around.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And if Bobby was willing to work as far from Connecticut as Japan is, I don't know that he'd flinch at working in Miami or Atlanta or wherever else there might be an opening.

[bmfc1]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Given that you've increased your desirability in the interim, why the h-e-dub-hockey-sticks would you give your ex-employers a discount?

Valid question. I would say because you've recently returned from many years of working half-way across the world, you live in CT, have a restaurant in CT that's more valuable if you're Mets manager http://www.bobbyv.com/ , don't want to live in Seattle or Chicago where you'll be away from home again, and because you're 60, love NY and New Yorkers love you so you'll be able to endorse more things than you would in Seattle or Chicago, and want to conclude your managing career in NY.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I haven't read anything about bad blood. I assumed their was residual fondness amid the professional bitterness. I imagine it's nothing a few dollars can't cure.

The hurdle, I think, is pride --- and more than a little. He'll likely want more control over his roster and his job security than he had last time around.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm beginning to think the key to the next Mets manager depends on his relationship not with the Wilpons, but of the relationship with the new president/GM arrangement they are talking about now.

I've all but convinced myself that Kasten is en route, he fits the Wilpons' criteria as an unemployed, experienced, "white haired baseball man" and his being a native NYer and member of the Tribe probably doesn't hurt.

[bmfc1]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I've all but convinced myself that Kasten is en route, he fits the Wilpons' criteria as an unemployed, experienced, "white haired baseball man" and his being a native NYer and member of the Tribe probably doesn't hurt.

I agree with you. Predictions: Jerry DiPoto, GM; Stan Kasten, President (or some other all-encompassing title).

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I can deal with that. DiPoto could GM in uniform, maybe.

[metirish]

Metsblog is trying to convince that there are internal talks about a Valentine/Backman combo , an updated senario over there is quoting Lennon on a Bobby V with Omar staying on in his role and Jerry DiPoto being groomed.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Can't see Jerry DiPoto getting the purse. Not this year, anywutz.

[Lefty Specialist]

Wally has already said he won't be a bench coach. And I doubt that Bobby V. would want to have a manager-in-waiting sitting next to him.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: Can't see Jerry DiPoto getting the purse. Not this year, anywutz.

Is he considered some kind of boy wonder or something? Did he do anything during his short time in Arizona to give him solid GM creds?

[Guest Edgy DC]

When did Backman say he wouldn't be a bench coach? That would seem awfully bridgeburny of him.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Is he considered some kind of boy wonder or something? Did he do anything during his short time in Arizona to give him solid GM creds?

His deal is that he's a Jersey native and a MLBS.

At Arizona, he did a little fire sale of Haren, Qualls & Edwin Jackson. Hard to say I suppose whether they were good deals or not.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Do you think the Mets are worried about potential criticism if they replace the first Hispanic GM and a black manager with a couple old white guys?

Personally, I'd love to see Kasten, and I'd love to see Bobby V. And while Backman might have said he doesn't want to be a bench coach, I suspect the opportunity to wear a Major League uniform and arrive to work at Citi Field is a lot more exciting than driving down Surf Avenue for a short season league.