NY Post says "Francoeur trade may be in the works"

[Ceetar]

btw, Mike Francesa is implying Frenchy is demanding to be traded.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: btw, Mike Francesa is implying Frenchy is demanding to be traded.

I know everything

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Ceetar wrote: btw, Mike Francesa is implying Frenchy is demanding to be traded. I know everything

I believe he was spouting off about things the Wilpons told him too.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

There's facts... and then there's Francesa Facts.

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: There's facts... and then there's Francesa Facts.

SHUT UP LARRY, i'M GOING TO FART DOWN THE PHONE AT YOU

[Zvon]

Well, I'm reading Frenchy is "okay" with (not demanding) a trade.
Course he is.
He see's the writing on the wall.
And he prefers playing.

If we can't get what we need through dealing him, I think he should stay.
If he continues to have at-bats that are worthy of a little league player
with no patience or wisdom, he becomes the dull tool many think he is.
If someone says he already is that dull tool, I can't argue. His at-bats
most times cringe worthy. He is what he is.
He could be better if he can be patient, make sure his at bats are more like
the way they were at the seasons start. Will he? It don't look like it.

I like his spirit and energy, attitude, PR persona.
I like a supporting role player (as opposed to say a David Wright, or any upper echelon player)
that can deal on that level the way Francoeur does.
But sadly that won't even buy him one of C.C.'s energy drinks.

And now he is a supporting role player.

I still think him in right field in a close game can make a game changing difference.
And I think Bay should be seeing more downtime until
we see something up from him, and that gets Frenchy more PT.
Is his arm alone enough to keep him? I'd like to be able to afford that.
Don't think we can

But if we can improve the team, and I mean improve it by getting what we need,
not just swap parts, I'll salute French and see him off.

And if Omar can do that, and I'll be very impressed if he can (as with Perez), then of course he should.

If they release him I will be very surprised.

[Guest Edgy DC]

His situation certainly isn't comparable to Perez's.

[Zvon]

Then go out and get a player(s) for what you think Frenchy and Perez ought to be worth.
Lemme know what they get ya.

I'd release Perez before I'd release Francoeur.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Jeff Francoeur: Selfish Malcontent:

�If there was an opportunity to play more somewhere else, that would be great,� Francoeur told the Daily News. �I love it here, but if they decide to go in a different direction, I would be happy to play somewhere else where there is more playing time.�

A couple of things:

1. I don't really care what players say in interviews and I suspect that, by and large, things like "clubhouse chemistry" are inventions created by the media covering a team so reporters can shoe-horn events into pre-defined narratives that have little or no effect on the on-field performance of a team, which is almost entirely determined by talent and chance. I really, really doubt Francouer's quote(s) (or anyone's, really) will have any effect on the performance of the team, so it's really not that important what he says or thinks.

2. That said, there are certain players that would be absolutely crucified in the sports media for saying something like this. I suspect Francoeur will be treated more sympathetically than, say, Gary Sheffield or Oliver Perez, despite his history of whining to reporters when he doesn't get his way. New York Sports Media: I challenge you to be nonsensically reactionary to all players, instead of piling on a few pariahs.

(Alternatively, you could take this opportunity to start a new era of sports journalism, in which cooler heads prevail over demagogues and stories are presented with nuance, reason and intelligence. I'll hold my breath for that)

3. Again, not that it really has much (or any) bearing on the team's performance, but if I were Jeff Francoeur, instead of bitching about playing time to reporters, I'd go ahead and shut the fuck up, because I've been absolutely awful this year (and for a good portion of my career). Carlos Beltran has been pretty bad since coming off the DL, but he still has a higher wOBA than me. And there's good reason to believe he'll improve before I will.

Of course, Francoeur is not paid to properly evaluate his value, he's paid to play baseball. So, while he's (apparently) really bad at doing both these things, he (correctly, perhaps) sees no need to try to evaluate himself properly. I get this, but I don't get this. Maybe this is just the difference between how professional athletes and us regular shlubs are wired, but I can't see going through life without being self-aware. When I've worked at jobs I've stunk at, I knew it. Hell, when I played sports I stunk at, I knew it. Francoeur, apparently, doesn't know he stinks. Which, I guess, might be a survival tool pro athletes need, although one could argue knowing your weaknesses could lead to improved performances.

Anyway, this is a longer post than I intended. No moeur Francoeur, etc, except that he could actually help the team as a pinch hitter/occasional starter vs. lefties. So I hope, despite his comments, he plays well in his new role, or the Mets get a somewhat useful part in return for him.

[Ceetar]

I think it's a survival tool. Even Pujols makes out more often than not, but if he went up to the plate in key situations thinking "I probably won't get a hit here" it probably wouldn't be a good thing.

Players live at bat to at bat. But as an overall evaluation, one AB tells you just about nothing about a players value. Frenchy knows he's not as good as anyone else in the OF, but he also goes into each AB knowing what he needs to do.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Jeff Francouer's combined OBP for the last three seasons (2008-2010) is under .300.

[duan]

duan wrote: he's got a career .826 ops against lefties (.787 this season) and is really really suited to helping a team who could use a lefty killing 4th OF. actually if you look at the yankees where granderson struggle's against lefties are verging on the epic you'd get a very good fit. Gardner to centre, Frenchy in against a lefty would be a .220 ops upgrade. of course if we could just stick with the program and start him instead of pagan against lefties or occassinally to give carlos a rest, it'd be fine.

don't get me wrong; i'm not saying he's perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the question is probably are we better eating the money and bringing up feliciano or trying to make the best use of him that's possible.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't think Francoeur's presence as a fourth outfielder is hurting the team. But, if he can be dealt for a decent AAA player who's a marginal prospect, there wouldn't be much harm in doing that, either.

[Vic Sage]

Jeff Francoeur: Selfish Malcontent: �If there was an opportunity to play more somewhere else, that would be great,� Francoeur told the Daily News. �I love it here, but if they decide to go in a different direction, I would be happy to play somewhere else where there is more playing time.� A couple of things: 1. I don't really care what players say in interviews and I suspect that, by and large, things like "clubhouse chemistry" are inventions created by the media covering a team so reporters can shoe-horn events into pre-defined narratives that have little or no effect on the on-field performance of a team, which is almost entirely determined by talent and chance. I really, really doubt Francouer's quote(s) (or anyone's, really) will have any effect on the performance of the team, so it's really not that important what he says or thinks. 2. That said, there are certain players that would be absolutely crucified in the sports media for saying something like this. I suspect Francoeur will be treated more sympathetically than, say, Gary Sheffield or Oliver Perez, despite his history of whining to reporters when he doesn't get his way. New York Sports Media: I challenge you to be nonsensically reactionary to all players, instead of piling on a few pariahs. (Alternatively, you could take this opportunity to start a new era of sports journalism, in which cooler heads prevail over demagogues and stories are presented with nuance, reason and intelligence. I'll hold my breath for that) 3. Again, not that it really has much (or any) bearing on the team's performance, but if I were Jeff Francoeur, instead of bitching about playing time to reporters, I'd go ahead and shut the fuck up, because I've been absolutely awful this year (and for a good portion of my career). Carlos Beltran has been pretty bad since coming off the DL, but he still has a higher wOBA than me. And there's good reason to believe he'll improve before I will. Of course, Francoeur is not paid to properly evaluate his value, he's paid to play baseball. So, while he's (apparently) really bad at doing both these things, he (correctly, perhaps) sees no need to try to evaluate himself properly. I get this, but I don't get this. Maybe this is just the difference between how professional athletes and us regular shlubs are wired, but I can't see going through life without being self-aware. When I've worked at jobs I've stunk at, I knew it. Hell, when I played sports I stunk at, I knew it. Francoeur, apparently, doesn't know he stinks. Which, I guess, might be a survival tool pro athletes need, although one could argue knowing your weaknesses could lead to improved performances. Anyway, this is a longer post than I intended. No moeur Francoeur, etc, except that he could actually help the team as a pinch hitter/occasional starter vs. lefties. So I hope, despite his comments, he plays well in his new role, or the Mets get a somewhat useful part in return for him.

THIS.
DITTO.

But agonizing about the 4th OFer and the backup middle IFer on a team plunging into an abyss is really rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

Unless Bay and Beltran start hitting like Bay and Beltran are supposed to hit, and unless Pelfrey and F-Rod get their heads out of their asses, this is all so peripheral as to be beneath notice.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: agonizing about the 4th OFer and the backup middle IFer on a team plunging into an abyss is really rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Unless Bay and Beltran start hitting like Bay and Beltran are supposed to hit, and unless Pelfrey and F-Rod get their heads out of their asses, this is all so peripheral as to be beneath notice.

I disagree. Obviously those guys are going to have to hit. But when they do have to hit already having taken care of improving at C, or 4th OF, or Manager is only adding value. It's not going to be the difference between winning and losing if Pelfrey gives up 8 runs, but when Pelfrey gets back on track and gives up 2, it might be the difference between scoring 2 and scoring 3.

Afterall, if the people in charge got the Titantic back on course, wouldn't you want to be able to sit on those deck chairs?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Okay, Shhhhhh! SHHHHHHH! All right, all right, everyone shut up. And turn around if you can't keep a straight face until we get things done.

MLBTR wrote: The Royals 'like' Jeff Francoeur, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). The Mets would like to trade Francoeur, and Royals GM Dayton Moore was in the Braves front office when the right-fielder made a name for himself in Atlanta, so the Mets and Royals could become trade partners. About $2MM remains on Francoeur's salary, and that's an obstacle for the Royals, according to Rosenthal.

Nobody get smart and ask for Greinke, or you'll ruin it. Kila Kaahue? Gordon? Aviles, even? These... may work.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If the $2 million is an obstacle for the Royals, why would they bother trading for Francoeur? He'll likely get even more than that next year from arbitration, and since the Royals aren't contending, there's no need to "rent" him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

They can take him for a test-drive, and if they like, non-tender him and sign him below the arbitration rate.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Jeff Francoeur: Selfish Malcontent: �If there was an opportunity to play more somewhere else, that would be great,� Francoeur told the Daily News. �I love it here, but if they decide to go in a different direction, I would be happy to play somewhere else where there is more playing time.� A couple of things: 1. I don't really care what players say in interviews and I suspect that, by and large, things like "clubhouse chemistry" are inventions created by the media covering a team so reporters can shoe-horn events into pre-defined narratives that have little or no effect on the on-field performance of a team, which is almost entirely determined by talent and chance. I really, really doubt Francouer's quote(s) (or anyone's, really) will have any effect on the performance of the team, so it's really not that important what he says or thinks. 2. That said, there are certain players that would be absolutely crucified in the sports media for saying something like this. I suspect Francoeur will be treated more sympathetically than, say, Gary Sheffield or Oliver Perez, despite his history of whining to reporters when he doesn't get his way. New York Sports Media: I challenge you to be nonsensically reactionary to all players, instead of piling on a few pariahs. (Alternatively, you could take this opportunity to start a new era of sports journalism, in which cooler heads prevail over demagogues and stories are presented with nuance, reason and intelligence. I'll hold my breath for that) 3. Again, not that it really has much (or any) bearing on the team's performance, but if I were Jeff Francoeur, instead of bitching about playing time to reporters, I'd go ahead and shut the fuck up, because I've been absolutely awful this year (and for a good portion of my career). Carlos Beltran has been pretty bad since coming off the DL, but he still has a higher wOBA than me. And there's good reason to believe he'll improve before I will. Of course, Francoeur is not paid to properly evaluate his value, he's paid to play baseball. So, while he's (apparently) really bad at doing both these things, he (correctly, perhaps) sees no need to try to evaluate himself properly. I get this, but I don't get this. Maybe this is just the difference between how professional athletes and us regular shlubs are wired, but I can't see going through life without being self-aware. When I've worked at jobs I've stunk at, I knew it. Hell, when I played sports I stunk at, I knew it. Francoeur, apparently, doesn't know he stinks. Which, I guess, might be a survival tool pro athletes need, although one could argue knowing your weaknesses could lead to improved performances. Anyway, this is a longer post than I intended. No moeur Francoeur, etc, except that he could actually help the team as a pinch hitter/occasional starter vs. lefties. So I hope, despite his comments, he plays well in his new role, or the Mets get a somewhat useful part in return for him. THIS. DITTO.

I enjoyed Firecracker's post too, because Francoeur is one of the two 2010 Mets that I hate on a personal level. As a rule of thumb, I generally harbor strong resentments towards players who receive disproportionately positive press in relation to their less than stellar on the field accomplishments. I often wonder whether these players have questionable social personalities and deliberately and consciously manipulate the press in order to generate the unjustified rave reviews that they garner. Sometimes I'm proven wrong -- other times, I have no idea whether I'm right or wrong and admit to myself that I'm going on personal hunches. In Francoeur's case, I've convinced myself that he's a pathological liar, a player that's been pampered and coddled for so long -- like most professional athletes -- that he believes that the press will take for granted anything he says, no matter how idiotic or false or how easily refutable the statement happens to be. I've heard enough of these comments from Frenchy, and all the time gauging his accompanying tone of voice and facial expressions and the surrounding context, that I believe that there's no way even he can possibly believe the truth of what he says.

That's all I really wanna say here. Nothing else. I'm not gonna go into the details or share what it is that makes me feel the way I do about Frenchy lest we have another sort of World War that typically erupts after this kind of post. I just can't stand him is all.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I would line up to slam the door shut after he leaves, and I think that's harsh, dude.

[batmagadanleadoff]

So's Frenchy's OBP.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I enjoyed Firecracker's post too, because Francoeur is one of the two 2010 Mets that I hate on a personal level. As a rule of thumb, I generally harbor strong resentments towards players who receive disproportionately positive press in relation to their less than stellar on the field accomplishments. I often wonder whether these players have questionable social personalities and deliberately and consciously manipulate the press in order to generate the unjustified rave reviews that they garner. Sometimes I'm proven wrong -- other times, I have no idea whether I'm right or wrong and admit to myself that I'm going on personal hunches. In Francoeur's case, I've convinced myself that he's a pathological liar, a player that's been pampered and coddled for so long -- like most professional athletes -- that he believes that the press will take for granted anything he says, no matter how idiotic or false or how easily refutable the statement happens to be. I've heard enough of these comments from Frenchy, and all the time gauging his accompanying tone of voice and facial expressions and the surrounding context, that I believe that there's no way even he can possibly believe the truth of what he says That's all I really wanna say here. Nothing else. I'm not gonna go into the details or share what it is that makes me feel the way I do about Frenchy lest we have another sort of World War that typically erupts after this kind of post. I just can't stand him is all.

You mean there IS way he'd pay more than $50 a month for his phone bill?