World Series Rematch

[Ceetar]

cutting this out of the oots weekend thread to continue:

Zvon wrote: Ceetar wrote: I disagree. The Phillies haven't really been under performing much. They've actually over-performed in recent years, with lots of players and pitchers (particularly in the bullpen) having career years. Polanco really isn't that much of an upgrade over what Feliz brough, Halladay is awesome, yes, and replaces the half season or so of Lee, but he's getting up there in age and if 2008 taught us anything it's that one Ace acquisition doesn't make that much of a difference, especially when the rest of the rotation is mediocre at best. You can disagree. Over-performed? If they only made the post season once in the last three years I'd agree. Polanco....only batting .319. Halladay,....your right about the rest of their rotation and I do think that's forcing their offense to press it. But Halladay? With his mechanics he's got plenty left in the tank. They have had bullpenners step up, yes. Even when the ones they were banking on couldn't do the job,....over the last three years. Someday we should meet for a beer and chat, so your close enough that I can throw pretzels at ya.

Not saying Halladay has got nothing left in the tank, but you never know when it's gonna run dry. Pitcher's tank sensors are very poor. If Halladay becomes just 95% of himself he'd still be awesome, but it'd cost the Phillies a win or two that they might need.

Polanco at .319 is still better than he's going to finish, not to mention he's probably a step down defensively, if only slightly. Victorino is putting up power numbers but otherwise underperforming, but not as much as it seems because he just might not be that good. Ibanez is probably going to hit better, but not much better, since it's been basically a year now since he's been real good. Honestly, I've always felt the Phillies have overperformed/stepped up when they had to. Hamels pitched amazingly in the '08 playoffs or maybe they don't win anything. However this has always been coupled with a Mets collapse, or them stepping up never would've done anything. I think the Mets, now with a lead, can hold off the Phillies and beat them without help.

Not that I'm rooting for the Phillies here. I'm not rooting for any of them. let the series be 2-1 with a 22 inning bullpen battering Thursday.

[Frayed Knot]

Halladay v Sabathia tonight -- that means a Yanqui game might even get in in under 3:15

[Willets Point]

Frayed Knot wrote: Halladay v Sabathia tonight -- that means a Yanqui game might even get in in under 3:15

Would love to have the batters go through the order on each of these pitchers and exhausting the bullpen as well. Then, tied at 9, the teams play 20 extra innings.

[bmfc1]

With the NL East playing the AL Central this year, I wondered why the Mets were playing the Orioles. Given that they swept and now the MFP play the MFY, the schedule maker may have helped the Mets. The downside is hoping that the MFY win (really that the MFP lose).

[Willets Point]

Willets Point wrote: Halladay v Sabathia tonight -- that means a Yanqui game might even get in in under 3:15 Would love to have the batters go through the order on each of these pitchers and exhausting the bullpen as well. Then, tied at 9, the teams play 20 extra innings.

Then they simultaneously forfeit and they both lose.

[Frayed Knot]

The whole division v division thing never works well because it can't - the differing number of teams per division and in each league insures that.
After hosting the Mets the Orioles jetted out to San Fran to play the Giants (with no day off even). And, yes, they lost again (18 of 21).

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

30 games below .500 for the Birds, and they've played just 64. They've got more talent than to be so bad.

I am calling for Bobby Valentine to save them.

[metirish]

Frayed Knot wrote: The whole division v division thing never works well because it can't - the differing number of teams per division and in each league insures that. After hosting the Mets the Orioles jetted out to San Fran to play the Giants (with no day off even). And, yes, they lost again (18 of 21).

No off day? , that's tough......gotta feel for Juan Samuel here, his first and perhaps only shot as manager and it went pear shaped in a hurry.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: The whole division v division thing never works well because it can't - the differing number of teams per division and in each league insures that. After hosting the Mets the Orioles jetted out to San Fran to play the Giants (with no day off even). And, yes, they lost again (18 of 21). No off day? , that's tough......gotta feel for Juan Samuel here, his first and perhaps only shot as manager and it went pear shaped in a hurry.

He's got what, 2 wins as manager and he's been there a couple of weeks now right?

[Frayed Knot]

Samuel is 2-8

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

So maybe it wasn't the manager's fault.

Too bad they can't fire the owner in Baltimore.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Finding good owners ain't easy.

Not that I believe there's such a thing as the Curse of Jeffrey Maier or anything, but I think fans and writers and owners and everybody would do well to acknowledge the role of luck, and not be so quick to open a vein after a playoff loss.

Davey Johnson took 71-win team to 88 wins and then 98, but since he brought home no championship, he fell out of favor and got axed, because doing something felt more correct than doing nothing, but it wasn't, and the Orioles have been been floundering desperately ever since.

If a couple of random things almost completely out of the team's power break the right way (including an outfield ump not blowing an easy call), the Orioles could have been champs in 1996 and 1997 and they, and not the Yankees, lay the foundation for a decade of unspeakable success --- and Johnson, not Torre --- be cruising toward the Hall of Fame.

[metirish]

That's an interesting thought edgy....not that I follow goings on the AL but from what I have read it seems the O's have taken several steps backwards this season.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And I think they're just the latest in backwards steps since the day Angelos axed Davey Johnson.

[G-Fafif]

There was lots of happy horsespit in March about how tough the A.L. East would be this year, including all that fine young talent in Baltimore. The implication there would be a tangible step forward. Either everybody just like the storyline of the division so awesome that every team was dangerous or nobody examined the O's for ripeness or rot.

[Frayed Knot]

'Conventional wisdom' def had the O's moving forward as the Halladay-less Jays falling back although just the opposite has happened.
Much of this was based on the young players Baltimore had coming along but, like it is with a lot of prospects, the pitching (Matusz and others) hasn't come around as quickly as hoped. Also CFer Adam Jones has shown his flaws (see JCL's KTE) and catcher Matt Weiters, who was described as an unholy cross between Mauer's defense and Piazza's offense, isn't either yet.

[batmagadanleadoff]

bmfc1 wrote: With the NL East playing the AL Central this year, I wondered why the Mets were playing the Orioles. Given that they swept and now the MFP play the MFY, the schedule maker may have helped the Mets. The downside is hoping that the MFY win (really that the MFP lose).

I thought this was an odd bit of scheduling too, mainly because the Orioles hosted the Mets last year, as well. I didn't look this up, but I'd bet that the Mets never traveled to the same inter-league city in consecutive seasons, The Bronx notwithstanding.

[metirish]

Boston ?

[MFS62]

Willets Point wrote: Halladay v Sabathia tonight -- that means a Yanqui game might even get in in under 3:15 Would love to have the batters go through the order on each of these pitchers and exhausting the bullpen as well. Then, tied at 9, the teams play 20 extra innings.

And then, after the final game of their series, get a mild case (three day siege) of dysentary from the post game clubhouse buffet.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

Not exactly shaping up to be the pitchers' duel most would have expected, 5-3 Yanx after 4.

[Frayed Knot]

* Phils (and Halladay) lose

* Marlins lose 3-2 to Texas on a 2-out / 2-run triple by their former backup C Matt Treanor. Nunez blown save/loss

* Nats had an early lead but lost to Detroit 7-4

* Braves - delayed by rain - and then coughed up 4 in the 1st inning to Tampa. Now down 5-1, still in the 2nd

[Zvon]

Ceetar wrote: Zvon wrote: But Halladay? With his mechanics he's got plenty left in the tank. Someday we should meet for a beer and chat, so your close enough that I can throw pretzels at ya. Not saying Halladay has got nothing left in the tank, but you never know when it's gonna run dry. Pitcher's tank sensors are very poor.

Halladay got pwnd tonight bro.

Throw me a pretzel.

[Frayed Knot]

One night after smacking around Halladay, Yanx get stymied by Moyer ... go figure.

6-2 Phils in the 9th. Moyer went 8.


Marlins losing, Nats losing, Braves winning.
Nice to see Livan Hernandez turning back into a pumpkin.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: One night after smacking around Halladay, Yanx get stymied by Moyer ... go figure. 6-2 Phils in the 9th. Moyer went 8. Marlins losing, Nats losing, Braves winning. Nice to see Livan Hernandez turning back into a pumpkin.

I think we all saw the Livan thing happening.

this is the result i wanted. Split series so far. Now tomorrow, while I'd prefer the Phillies win, ideal would be for Rivera to blow it with a 40 pitch ninth inning and then the game goes 22.

[Frayed Knot]

btw, the most significant development in last night's NYY/PHI game appears to be (at least to those in the ESPN universe) that Jamie Moyer is now the oldest pitcher ever to beat the Yanquis!!!! ... and, as we all know, records involving the Yanx are so much more meaningful than those affecting other teams. I mean the fuckin' guy is 47 years old, I'm sure that many, if not most, of his wins, his losses, his farts on the mound over the last 2 to 3 seasons have involved some kind of 'oldest ever' mark but I don't recall those others even getting mentioned much less become the main topic as this one did. But now, not only can a guy old enough to have just had his son drafted actually pitch in the major leagues - but he can even beat the Yanquis!!!!

For an actual (almost) record, JM wound up throwing an 8 inning 3-hitter, 2 of which were solo HRs. This puts him just one HR behind Robin Roberts for most HRs allowed in a career.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It would be significant if he was the oldest pitcher ever to beat the Mets... but he's not!

I think I feel a trivia question coming on...

[MFS62]

Since their records are so significant to the history of the universe, I'm surprised there isn't a UMFYDB for public access.
That way, we could check and see if Hoyt Wilhelm or Satchel Paige ever beat the Yanks in the last years of their careers.
I'd love to catch their PR department in an error.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Don't need one. The data is out there. Hoyt Wilhelm last beat the Yankees May 7, 1969. He was 46 years and about 10 months old. Satchell Paige last beat the Yankees September 16, 1953. He was 47 years and a little over two months old.

Jamie Moyer is 47 and about seven months.

Frayed Knot is reporting the ESPN angle. I don't think he's claiming it necessarily comes from the Yankees' PR department.

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: Don't need one. The data is out there. Hoyt Wilhelm last beat the Yankees May 7, 1969. He was 46 years and about 10 months old. Satchell Paige last beat the Yankees September 16, 1953. He was 47 years and a little over two months old. Jamie Moyer is 47 and about seven months. Frayed Knot is reporting the ESPN angle. I don't think he's claiming it necessarily comes from the Yankees' PR department.

I know he is, but it was also reported on the MFY post game wrap up show. ESPN may not have researched it first.
Anyhow, thanks for the Wilhelm and Paige facts.

Later

[Willets Point]

There's a difference between ESPN and the Yankees PR department?