Church for Francouer

[nymr83]

I was joking about Abreu, was there clamoring?

[Guest Edgy DC]

they're not floating around in the middle of the season, but there were plenty of guys available in the offseason that would have given the mets better production in a corner outfield slot, and very little excuse not to sign one (particularly with the cheap deals Abreu and Ibanez got).[/quote:2qv1cxeo]
Career-long starters with four 100-RBI seasons on their resume is certainly not what I associate with the term "replacement level."

[nymr83]

my point was that the mets easily could have had a better than replacement, and better than avg, player at the position in the offseason

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Abreu's deal was cheap, and a super-short commitment... and signed relatively late in the offseason.

The Phillies' signing of Ibanez-- a 3-year commitment to a 37-year-old for more money per year than any other corner OFer not named Manny Ramirez got-- seemed a little unwise at the time.

Both will outperform their deals this year-- Abreu by a country mile.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I missed when and how this became a discussion about what should have been done over the offseason.

	Offense																								CF			RF
Player	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	Inn	UZR	A	Inn	UZR	A
Francoeur	40	166	155	19	48	10	2	6	24	0	3	5	22	.310	.337	.516	.853	122	39	0	3	0	3	1	-	-	-	347	-5.0	3
Church	29	106	92	18	25	10	0	2	16	0	0	14	15	.272	.368	.446	.814	115	13	1	0	0	0	1	96	-2.3	0	129	2.6	2

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, I don't have to give up my Mr. Met lunchbox, as Francoeurfinishes with 0.3 WARs, even by the relatively strict and elusive math of fangraphs, who rate him with a pretty disastrous defensive performance with the Mets.

For those of you more concerned about the trade for Church, Churchiefinished with 0.5.

Edge to the Braves, but it's fair to call it for the Mets if you look at the perspective of dollars, control, and age --- which all have a value in wins.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm not unhappy with Francoeur. He can be part of a championship outfield, as long as the Mets get somebody kickass to play left field next year.

[ashie62]

I'm not unhappy with Francoeur. He can be part of a championship outfield, as long as the Mets get somebody kickass to play left field next year.[/quote:2ibb0ml5]

Francouer will likely remain a serviceable plus Met, while Ryan Church would have not returned in my opinion.

[nymr83]

I'm not unhappy with Francoeur. He can be part of a championship outfield, as long as the Mets get somebody kickass to play left field next year.

[smg58]

Francoeur reminds me a bit of Rich Hidalgo. When he swings the bat well you wonder how he's not one of the league's star players, then you look at his overall numbers and wonder how it can possibly be the same person. My guess is if we keep him around long enough we'll find out.

Plus, even his numbers with the Mets (an .836 OPS for a corner outfielder with a mediocre glove) are nothing to get excited about. I'd sell while I can.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That's weird. I saw a dude with a Richard Hidalgo 15 t-shirt the other day.

Everything I've heard from the Mets seems to suggest they love Frenchie and he's here to stay.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mid-season rightfield acquisitions made in the midst of lost seasons:

Claudell Washington, 1980
Ellis Valentine, 1981
Richard Hidalgo, 2004
Jeff Francoeur, 2009

All were in the midst of a dreadful season and downward trend in their careers. All save Valentine did better than you might have expected and had at least something of the rebound the Mets were hoping for. But Valentine is the only one of the first three that the Mets brought back for a second season. We'll see with Jeff, but the Mets have him under control for another year under any circumstances.

(Sean Green doesn't qualify for this club, because 2006 wasn't lost when he was acquired. He did his best to help lose it, but whatchagonnado?)

All are from the Wilpon era. Also, due to the season restart after the 1981 strike, the season turned out to be not so completely lost (while, in another sense, it was particularly lost), but it certainly seemed so at the time.

Anyhow, Valentine did what he could (blow) to try to make the second half as hopeless as the first.

[Frayed Knot]

"We'll see with Jeff, but the Mets have him under control for another year under any circumstances."

Two actually, if they so choose.

[metirish]

Hidalgo gave us that great week of home runs , a highlight for sure that season....

[ashie62]

And the 2004 Motion Picture "Hidalgo" starring Viggo Mortenson was nominated for the Golden Trailer award for best Drama..

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Jeff's walks have actually managed to go down each of the last two seasons.

[Guest Edgy DC]

This thread sucks. I put my box on the line, and it turns out, Francoeur redeems my ass, but nobody took me up on the bet.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

I thought only women had boxes.

There's some talk that the Braves may not even offer arbitration to Church, which I have to say I find astonishing.

[Fman99]

This thread sucks. I put my box on the line, and it turns out, Francoeur redeems my ass, but nobody took me up on the bet.[/quote:1qeydsrb]

Put your box on the line, I'll give it a kick for you.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Braves are in the clubhouse on this one with a score of 0.5 WAR. The Mets trail at 0.4 --- largely diminished due to Francoeur's erratic use of his prodigious arm --- but are still on the course.

[metirish]

No idea what that really means, I do think though that Francoeur is all but guarenteed to be the Mets right fielder on opening day while Church is looking for a new team. I'd say this deal worked out in the Mets favour.

[smg58]

It depends on how Francoeur responds to getting handed a full-time spot and a raise in arbitration. If we wind up paying $5M for a .650 OPS in right field, the Braves still get the last laugh.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

I do think though that Francoeur is all but guarenteed to be the Mets right fielder on opening day while Church is looking for a new team. I'd say this deal worked out in the Mets favour.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Also, I'd suggest this offseason is probably the best chance the Mets will have of selling high on Francoeur. There may be GMs out there that like him more than Omar.

[metirish]

2. Ryan Church will play more baseball games. And in those games, he is a much better bet to be a better player than Jeff Francoeur.

Come now , you don't kow that.

Church

2004 - 30 Games
2005 - 102
2006 - 71
2007 - 144
2008 - 90
2009 - 111

Total = 548

Francouer

2005 - 70
2006 - 162
2007 - 162
2008 - 155
2009 - 157

Total - 706


From what saw with Church and his time with the Mets was not much , I like the guy and it was very unfortunate that he was injured for some time.

I do wonder where on the list of things to do for the Mets is having a solid backup plan for RF...I don't disagree with you on that but I have a feeling Minaya thinks he made out like a king with the trade.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

2. Ryan Church will play more baseball games. And in those games, he is a much better bet to be a better player than Jeff Francoeur.

Come now , you don't kow that.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Also, I'd suggest this offseason is probably the best chance the Mets will have of selling high on Francoeur. There may be GMs out there that like him more than Omar.

[metirish]

From the link

So, while there has been a sense that sabermetrics is now part of MLB, some are using it only sparingly, while two clubs have yet to get on-board with the objective analysis world, at all.

Guesses?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Marlins (who don't pay for anything they're not forced to), and the Yankees (who are smarter than computers).

[metsmarathon]

pirates and royals