Legit or Fake?

[Gwreck]

The alleged 2003 Steroid List:

http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318

1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Jeromy Burnitz
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews
104.Oliver Perep

[Benjamin Grimm]

They might as well shut down the Hall of Fame for a decade or two.

[metirish]

I don't see Piazza , do I ?

None on that list at a very quick glance surprise me...

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Brent Abernathy. I KNEW it.

[Gwreck]

Of course, Piazza was hurt for much of 2003...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Antonio Alfonseca

Everyone knows: non-cheating normals don't have six fingers.

[bmfc1]

Delgado? Crap.

[Fman99]

Tons o' Mets, current and former, on this list.

Current:

Carlos Delgado
Frankie Rodriguez
Gary Sheffield
Fernando Tatis
Livan Hernandez
Oliver Perez

Former:

Pedro Martinez
Melvin Mora
Kenny Rogers
Sandy Alomar
Jose Lima
Mike Cameron
Mike Hampton
Tony Armas
Roberto Alomar
Cliff Floyd
Roger Cedeno
Jeromy Burnitz
Moises Alou
Kris Benson
Paul LoDuca
Shawn Green
Guillermo Mota

Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets.

[Gwreck]

="Benjamin Grimm":32eg1nc2]They might as well shut down the Hall of Fame for a decade or two.[/quote:32eg1nc2] I count 8 obvious HOF candidates plus two others: Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Barry Bonds Sammy Sosa Rafael Palmeiro Manny Ramirez Alex Rodriguez Ivan Rodriguez Roberto Alomar (?) Gary Sheffield (?)

bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:32 AM

"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?

Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:33 AM

Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.

Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:44 AM

="bmfc1":355jydkl]Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:355jydkl] The list appeared to be sorted by division and team, so you get Alomar, Cedeno, Burnitz and Floyd all listed together. Those are your '03 Mets. Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 11:45 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM ="bmfc1":n44vb3vz]"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:n44vb3vz] Hey, Art Howe ran a clean clubhouse!!! Meanwhile... 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16.Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens These are the only Yankees? You-gotta-be-kiddin'-me! Farmer Ted Jun 29 2009 11:46 AM I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM "Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:50 AM ="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM ="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[bmfc1]

"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets."

As was Valerio de los Santos.

Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?

[Gwreck]

Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.

[Gwreck]

="bmfc1":355jydkl]Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:355jydkl] The list appeared to be sorted by division and team, so you get Alomar, Cedeno, Burnitz and Floyd all listed together. Those are your '03 Mets. Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 11:45 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM

="bmfc1":n44vb3vz]"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:n44vb3vz] Hey, Art Howe ran a clean clubhouse!!! Meanwhile... 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16.Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens These are the only Yankees? You-gotta-be-kiddin'-me! Farmer Ted Jun 29 2009 11:46 AM I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM "Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:50 AM ="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM ="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

="bmfc1":n44vb3vz]"Not counting Freddy Garcia and Bret Boone who were spring training Mets." As was Valerio de los Santos. Not to split hairs, but were any of the named on the Mets in '03?[/quote:n44vb3vz] Hey, Art Howe ran a clean clubhouse!!! Meanwhile... 13.Jason Giambi 14.Alfonso Soriano 15.Raul Mondesi 16.Aaron Boone 17.Andy Pettitte 18.Jose Contreras 19.Roger Clemens These are the only Yankees? You-gotta-be-kiddin'-me!

Farmer Ted Jun 29 2009 11:46 AM

I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.

bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 11:48 AM

"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.

Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:50 AM

="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days. Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM ="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

Edited June 29, 2009 by Guest

[Farmer Ted]

I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.

[bmfc1]

"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not."

The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season:

07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.

[Fman99]

="Farmer Ted":3o2b1z4y]I thought Moises got his power from pissing on his hands.[/quote:3o2b1z4y] I wonder what Moistest Alou is doing these days.

Gwreck Jun 29 2009 11:52 AM

="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team. Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM ="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[Gwreck]

="bmfc1":3hsdd5wp]"Interestingly, Burnitz is listed again, but with the Dodgers players. Don't know if that's indicative of the list being fake or not." The Mets traded him to the Dodgers during the '03 season: 07-14-2003: Traded by New York Mets to Los Angeles Dodgers for Victor Diaz and Jose Diaz.[/quote:3hsdd5wp] I know. You'd think the list still would've only had him on there once. Did somebody go through the list of players on each team, find who was plausible, and put this together? (And simply forget that Burnitz was already on there)? Or perhaps Jeromy tested positive twice, once with each team.

Fman99 Jun 29 2009 11:54 AM

="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball. Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either. Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know. smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form. metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte] SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM ="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[Fman99]

="Gwreck":3pm0hlqj]Carl Everett and Gary Matthews were also Mets.[/quote:3pm0hlqj] Thanks... I figured that I would miss a few.

G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:18 PM

It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball.

Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 12:58 PM

anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2009 01:12 PM

Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know.

smg58 Jun 29 2009 01:17 PM

Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2009 01:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2009 01:44 PM

After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form.

metirish Jun 29 2009 01:39 PM

Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte]

SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 01:41 PM

="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such. bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM ="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[G-Fafif]

It appears most of the '03 Mets were no better at alleged juicing than they were at baseball.

[nymr83]

anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn).

i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Hey, wait, Gwynn and Ripken were done by 2003. As for Jeter, soft rain isn't on any banned list I know.

[smg58]

Is anybody else reporting this? And if not, who is rotoinfo claiming as the source?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

After the better part of an afternoon searching, I've only seen this "list" on other message boards, and in similarly unsourced form.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Guest

[metirish]

Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here

Derek, don't fail us now[/url:32jw2hte]

[stevejrogers]

="Nymr83":4s13xmfx]anyone can make a fake list look plausible by sprikling in the cheats we know (Clemens, Arod, Giambi) the cheats we've long suspected (Juan Gonzalez, Miguel Tejada) and some random names (Abernathy, Christiansen, Mota) while avoiding those we'd hate to suspect (Ripken, Jeter, Gwynn). i can't call bullshit on the "list" but theres just no way to take it seriously either.[/quote:4s13xmfx] It does read a bit much like something a MFY fan would put together as many names are "thorns" in Yankee sides and such.

bmfc1 Jun 29 2009 01:43 PM

="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order. SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE! Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM "In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine. metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell?? Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care. attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009) Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM ="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[bmfc1]

="metirish":dswu7m3p]Bob Klapisch has in the past shared concern regarding Jeter.......hilarious reading here Derek, don't fail us now[/url:dswu7m3p][/quote:dswu7m3p] A nation turns its lonely eyes to you....

OlerudOwned Jun 29 2009 05:25 PM

Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order.

SteveJRogers Jun 29 2009 05:35 PM

Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards. Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE!

Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 05:46 PM

"In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 29 2009 06:04 PM

No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell??

Frayed Knot Jun 29 2009 07:02 PM

Legit or Fake? Don't know, don't care.

attgig Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list

http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009)

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 10:10 AM

we had a post about this yesterday (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009)

Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 10:55 AM

See the 'Legit or Fake' thread lower down on the page. The consensus seems to be that this thing appears nowhere except for this roto-site and who knows where they picked it up from. That real news orgs (or even ESPN) aren't touching it makes you think that there's no credible source behind it. So it's probably speculation even though it could be partially or even mostly correct - but I don't even care at this point. When this 2003 list does leak (and you know it eventually will) it's still just going to be merely a snapshot of that moment and certainly not remotely the last word on who is tainted and who is pure. (Merged from 2003 Unconfirmed Steroid list, 6/30/2009)

Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 11:11 AM

Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.

Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 11:13 AM

="Frayed Knot":2ox6bx81]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ox6bx81] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread! LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 30 2009 11:29 AM Tommy Craggs of Deadspin dissects a few problematic aspects of the list. Exhibit A? ]For one thing, Jason Grimsley's name is absent. Grimsley, you'll recall, has been confirmed as one of the Juicin' 104. http://deadspin.com/5304675/why-the-new-alleged-steroids-list-is-a-crock?skyline=true&s=i Triple Dee Jun 30 2009 11:58 AM Even some of the names make it pretty dubious. Call me naive if you like, but I'd be shocked if Delgado ever juiced (Beltran, otoh, I could believe). However, whoever put the list together was thinking; Delgado had a career year in 2003 + Delgado's from PR + Steriods are probably easier to acquire in PR + Delgado's numbers have dropped since 2003 = Delgado's on the list. The formula works for a large percentage of players on the list. seawolf17 Jun 30 2009 12:01 PM The list is patently fake, for all the reasons everyone's listed. It's just too convenient. OO's probably right. It's directing a lot of traffic to that roto site, which probably helps their ad revenue, though. Frayed Knot Jun 30 2009 12:05 PM ="Nymr83":27xputm1] ="Frayed Knot":27xputm1]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:27xputm1] beats having duplicate threads. this problem is also easily solved by reading every thread![/quote:27xputm1] And God knows how there's a finite supply of threads so we have to conserve them ... like oil. Point being that 'Attgig' is a long-time, though less active, poster who, less than an hour after he brings up a topic, has it disappear on him. Now maybe he reads more than he posts or maybe he just missed that one, but I think sometimes in our relish to "tidy up" the board and preserve those always-endangered threads we don't consider all the angles. In this case, I think both the rush to merge and the brusque 'we already talked about that' didn't do anyone any favors. There needn't be some kind of full-time or not-at-all requirement to post here. Nymr83 Jun 30 2009 12:23 PM multiple threads bump other useful threads to the 2nd page and they create duplication of discussion and confusion. take a look at some other forums and you'll see how annoying it is when unpoliced. nobody is saying attgig or whoever else did something bad, but its proper to point out the duplicate and merge it. attgig Jun 30 2009 12:50 PM ="Frayed Knot":2ptcrfj5]Except now that if 'Attgig' goes looking responses to his less-than-hour-old thread on the steroids list he won't be able to find it and think he was censored or something.[/quote:2ptcrfj5] dangit, where'd my thread go? attgig Jun 30 2009 12:56 PM as for the list, i think it's pretty well made up list, but I don't see how rotoinfo is going to get away with it if it's fake.... even qualifying it as a rumor could open itself up to libel/slander lawsuits..

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Looks like somebody just cobbled together whatever names they could remember from 2003. Seems as if they ran down team rosters and grabbed the notable looking names, and slapped them down in order.

[stevejrogers]

Yup. And as LWFS said, its not showing up anywhere except on message boards.



Yes I'm sure me and DGW will get that, but the scene it is from is classic overacting with just the line, IT'S A FAKE!

[nymr83]

"In the Pale Moonlight" was my favorite episode of Deep Space Nine.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

No Astros or Twins? No Bagwell??