Santana deal revisited

[Guest Edgy DC]

Phil Humber:

2008: Stayed healthy and loged 136 innings at AAA and another 11 in the bigs, but his 4.56 ERA was something of a step backwards for a 25-year-old former high-first-round pick. Eight of his AAA appearances and all five of his big-league appearances were out of the pen, so maybe they're looking at him as a future reliever, but few star relievers have a curve as their top pitch.

2009: Looks like he'll make the Twins roster out of camp, but mostly because (1) Boof Bonser is out, and (2) he's out of options. It's not clear where they are looking to fit him in.

Carlos Gomez:

2008: Started in centerfield, and exhibited mostly small ball skills despite being 6'4", showing neither a surfeit of power nor on-base ability. Gardenhire replaced him in the leadoff spot halfway through the year, and his OBP only went down. Nobody was disappointed in his athletic ability, however, and more experience should lead to more displays of his mad skillz. Replacing Torii Hunter is no picnic, but swinging so hard that you fall down isn't the way to do it.

2009: back in center in the Dome.

Deolois Guerra:

2008: The Twins returned him for a second year in the Florida State League and he turned in a 5.47 ERA. Ouch. He walked as many as he whiffed. Double ouch.

2009: Make or break year, maybe. I can't find him mentioned in one spring article.

Kevin Mulvey:

2008: Had a solid year in AAA, posting a 3.77 ERA in 148 innings, with 121 Ks and only 48 walks. He may have been considered the third pitcher in this deal, but he's coming along better than the other two.

2009: Sent back to minor league camp last week, after getting only seven innings to audition with the big squad. Nonetheless, he aquitted himself well and will likely get a chance this season. If he performs at AAA the first month, he may get a chance before Humber does.

All in all, I think this is breaking the Mets' way so far, give or take $20 million.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.

[nymr83]

="metsguyinmichigan":2jxrav98]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:2jxrav98] i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity.

Fman99 Mar 30 2009 07:06 AM

="metsguyinmichigan":3c0nogrw]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:3c0nogrw] Yep. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 07:13 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 30 2009 07:27 AM Season IP 2000 86.0 2001 43.7 2002 108.3 2003 158.3 2004 228.0 There's still an art to it. The "best pitcher in the league" is still a cloudy designation, and good pitching can still be frustratingly ephemeral (maybe moreso in the post-roids era). And four eggs can be safer --- if not better --- than one, when shells crack so easily. That said, if you've got to choose a pitcher to hitch your wagon to, Santana seems like a good one --- excellent condition, not velocity-dependent. The same was true of Mike Hampton once upon a time, but he tended to nibble and waste pitches and Johan certainly doesn't. I also love the way the Twins, by plan or chance, built up his workload tenderly and with feeling. (See table.) Did you know that he wanted to be a shortstop like his dad, but when told that lefties couldn't play shortstop, he learned to throw righthanded? It's all here in this fine little wikibio at baseball-reference.com. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 30 2009 07:17 AM You got to wonder in the meantime whether the MFYs' official benching of Melky for Brett F. Gardner -- not to mention the fact that Hughes and Kennedy are still minor leaguers -- does anything to alert the columnists to the possibility that the MFYs might not in fact have possessed a better package, then or now. Eat shit. seawolf17 Mar 30 2009 07:20 AM B-b-b-but they're the Yankees! Of course their prospects are better than anyone else's! You're making Wally cry. dgwphotography Mar 30 2009 08:22 AM I would make that trade over and over and over again for just for September 27th Centerfield Mar 30 2009 08:26 AM ="Fman99":12mt6mrj] ="metsguyinmichigan":12mt6mrj]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Yep.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone... OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 12:02 PM ="Centerfield":1suu27vu] ="Fman99":1suu27vu] ="metsguyinmichigan":1suu27vu]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:1suu27vu] Yep.[/quote:1suu27vu] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone...[/quote:1suu27vu] Liriano's gotta get paid eventually. TheOldMole Mar 30 2009 05:24 PM I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof? RealityChuck Mar 30 2009 05:28 PM ="TheOldMole":1wbwl9sx]I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof?[/quote:1wbwl9sx] Yes. John Wilkes Boof. Something of a hothead. OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 06:02 PM Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:13 PM Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 06:22 PM They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:41 PM You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret. Kong76 Mar 30 2009 06:52 PM ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity. Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order. Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was pretty damn funny too. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 09:00 PM ="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!

[Fman99]

="metsguyinmichigan":3c0nogrw]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:3c0nogrw] Yep.

Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 07:13 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 30 2009 07:27 AM

Season IP 2000 86.0 2001 43.7 2002 108.3 2003 158.3 2004 228.0 There's still an art to it. The "best pitcher in the league" is still a cloudy designation, and good pitching can still be frustratingly ephemeral (maybe moreso in the post-roids era). And four eggs can be safer --- if not better --- than one, when shells crack so easily. That said, if you've got to choose a pitcher to hitch your wagon to, Santana seems like a good one --- excellent condition, not velocity-dependent. The same was true of Mike Hampton once upon a time, but he tended to nibble and waste pitches and Johan certainly doesn't. I also love the way the Twins, by plan or chance, built up his workload tenderly and with feeling. (See table.) Did you know that he wanted to be a shortstop like his dad, but when told that lefties couldn't play shortstop, he learned to throw righthanded? It's all here in this fine little wikibio at baseball-reference.com.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 30 2009 07:17 AM

You got to wonder in the meantime whether the MFYs' official benching of Melky for Brett F. Gardner -- not to mention the fact that Hughes and Kennedy are still minor leaguers -- does anything to alert the columnists to the possibility that the MFYs might not in fact have possessed a better package, then or now. Eat shit.

seawolf17 Mar 30 2009 07:20 AM

B-b-b-but they're the Yankees! Of course their prospects are better than anyone else's! You're making Wally cry.

dgwphotography Mar 30 2009 08:22 AM

I would make that trade over and over and over again for just for September 27th

Centerfield Mar 30 2009 08:26 AM

="Fman99":12mt6mrj] ="metsguyinmichigan":12mt6mrj]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Yep.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone... OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 12:02 PM ="Centerfield":1suu27vu] ="Fman99":1suu27vu] ="metsguyinmichigan":1suu27vu]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:1suu27vu] Yep.[/quote:1suu27vu] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone...[/quote:1suu27vu] Liriano's gotta get paid eventually. TheOldMole Mar 30 2009 05:24 PM I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof? RealityChuck Mar 30 2009 05:28 PM ="TheOldMole":1wbwl9sx]I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof?[/quote:1wbwl9sx] Yes. John Wilkes Boof. Something of a hothead. OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 06:02 PM Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:13 PM Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 06:22 PM They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:41 PM You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret. Kong76 Mar 30 2009 06:52 PM ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity. Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order. Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was pretty damn funny too. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 09:00 PM ="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Season	IP
2000	86.0
2001	43.7
2002	108.3
2003	158.3
2004	228.0

There's still an art to it. The "best pitcher in the league" is still a cloudy designation, and good pitching can still be frustratingly ephemeral (maybe moreso in the post-roids era). And four eggs can be safer --- if not better --- than one, when shells crack so easily.

That said, if you've got to choose a pitcher to hitch your wagon to, Santana seems like a good one --- excellent condition, not velocity-dependent. The same was true of Mike Hampton once upon a time, but he tended to nibble and waste pitches and Johan certainly doesn't. I also love the way the Twins, by plan or chance, built up his workload tenderly and with feeling. (See table.)

Did you know that he wanted to be a shortstop like his dad, but when told that lefties couldn't play shortstop, he learned to throw righthanded? It's all here in this fine little wikibio at baseball-reference.com.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

You got to wonder in the meantime whether the MFYs' official benching of Melky for Brett F. Gardner -- not to mention the fact that Hughes and Kennedy are still minor leaguers -- does anything to alert the columnists to the possibility that the MFYs might not in fact have possessed a better package, then or now.

Eat shit.

[seawolf17]

B-b-b-but they're the Yankees! Of course their prospects are better than anyone else's! You're making Wally cry.

[dgwphotography]

I would make that trade over and over and over again for just for September 27th

[Centerfield]

="Fman99":12mt6mrj] ="metsguyinmichigan":12mt6mrj]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Yep.[/quote:12mt6mrj] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone... OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 12:02 PM ="Centerfield":1suu27vu] ="Fman99":1suu27vu] ="metsguyinmichigan":1suu27vu]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:1suu27vu] Yep.[/quote:1suu27vu] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone...[/quote:1suu27vu] Liriano's gotta get paid eventually. TheOldMole Mar 30 2009 05:24 PM I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof? RealityChuck Mar 30 2009 05:28 PM ="TheOldMole":1wbwl9sx]I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof?[/quote:1wbwl9sx] Yes. John Wilkes Boof. Something of a hothead. OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 06:02 PM Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:13 PM Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 06:22 PM They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:41 PM You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret. Kong76 Mar 30 2009 06:52 PM ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity. Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order. Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was pretty damn funny too. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 09:00 PM ="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!

[Guest OlerudOwned]

="Centerfield":1suu27vu] ="Fman99":1suu27vu] ="metsguyinmichigan":1suu27vu]I'd make that deal over and over and over and over again.[/quote:1suu27vu] Yep.[/quote:1suu27vu] Wait, do the Twins have more Santanas? Because we've got more prospects that are going nowhere. Somebody get me a phone...[/quote:1suu27vu] Liriano's gotta get paid eventually. TheOldMole Mar 30 2009 05:24 PM I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof? RealityChuck Mar 30 2009 05:28 PM ="TheOldMole":1wbwl9sx]I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof?[/quote:1wbwl9sx] Yes. John Wilkes Boof. Something of a hothead. OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 06:02 PM Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:13 PM Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 06:22 PM They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:41 PM You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret. Kong76 Mar 30 2009 06:52 PM ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity. Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order. Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was pretty damn funny too. Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 09:00 PM ="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!

[Theoldmole]

I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul.

The Twins have a player named Boof?

[RealityChuck]

="TheOldMole":1wbwl9sx]I think any team that would start a guy named Brett over a guy named Melky has no poetry in its soul. The Twins have a player named Boof?[/quote:1wbwl9sx] Yes. John Wilkes Boof. Something of a hothead.

OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 06:02 PM

Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer.

Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:13 PM

Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order.

Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 06:22 PM

They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there

Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 06:41 PM

You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.

Kong76 Mar 30 2009 06:52 PM

ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity. Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order. Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was pretty damn funny too.

Ashie62 Mar 30 2009 09:00 PM

="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Speaking of trades with the Twins, former Mets prospect and Castillo trade piece Drew Butera is apparently on the inside track to start the season in the majors to hold place for the injured Joe Mauer.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Some pretty shallow organizational depth they've got there. The guy his .219 last year while repeating AA. He did get his share of walks, but skipping a level is a tall order.

[ashie62]

They say trade Potential for the Proven..give or take 20 Million..Nice deal for the Mets regardless of how the traded do. I have a soft spot for Carlos Gomez..I hope he can become a 20-20 guy. The speed is there

[Guest Edgy DC]

You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.

[Guest Kong76]

ny83: i think any deal of "prospects for the best pitcher in the league" is one you'll make over and over again. the problem comes when you trade prospects for mediocrities. those prospects might not pan out, but i'd rather have them over the mediocrity.

Yuh, duh, and wuh? ... in that order.

Santana's Jay Horowitz impersonation tonight in a dugout interview was
pretty damn funny too.

[ashie62]

="Edgy DC":3vitneyz]You actually said you wanted to undo this trade back when you were calling him "Carlos Lopez." You additionally said that "Lopez" would be a Yankee in a few years leading us all to fits of regret.[/quote:3vitneyz] Lighten up Francis...We've got a pennant to win..To the batcave!