Other Stadiums Being Built in the Tri-State Area...

[seawolf17]

="metirish":uoy3pvzx]I'm not an architect , hell I'm not even a doctor but I don't know why these new stadiums have any such seating like above.[/quote:uoy3pvzx] I have to say I agree. They made a big fucking deal about having less seats, and angling them toward home plate, and so on... and you have this obstructed-view bullshit? Eff that.

seawolf17 Apr 02 2009 08:02 PM

A 76.3% increase?!?! Eff you, Yankees. You too, Johnny Damon. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4036916

metirish Apr 02 2009 08:08 PM

Wankers - $41.40 to $72.97 - suckers

Rockin' Doc Apr 02 2009 08:08 PM

Damon should stick to doing Gieco commercials.

seawolf17 Apr 02 2009 08:48 PM

="Rockin' Doc":lhs13t5x]Damon should stick to doing Gieco commercials.[/quote:lhs13t5x] Seriously. That pissed me off. "I mean, really, fuck the little guy. I make $13 million a year, guaranteed. So I don't care if they can't afford tickets; I wipe my ass with $1,000 bills." Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2009 04:52 AM A 76.3% increase in the cost of the average ticket for a seat at Yankee Stadium is once again, proof positive that it sucks to be a Yankees fan. Johnny Damon, it seems safe to conclude, is not exactly a thinking man. His comments are insensitive and out of touch with the day to day struggles of the common working man or woman. Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 05:51 AM ="Johnny Damon":1g3apd5t]"It's tough. New York can withstand it," he said. "Coming to this plush building, I think it's definitely something that people want to see. I mean, those are great seats. It's going to be tough for a family to afford but, you know, but we'll let the people upstairs worry about that."[/quote:1g3apd5t] Clearly, the people upstairs don't give a damn either. Nymr83 Apr 03 2009 06:18 AM In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:00 AM Times has its architectural reviews of both stadia today... ] April 3, 2009 Architecture Review Two New Baseball Palaces, One Stoic, One Scrappy By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF American stadium design has been stuck in a nostalgic funk, with sports franchises recycling the same old images year after year. Still, if you have to go with a retro look, New York City could have done worse than the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field. Both were designed by Populous (formerly known as HOK Sport Venue Event) and are major upgrades over the stadiums they replaced, which had been looking more and more dilapidated over the years. Both should be fine places to spend a few hours watching a game. What�s more, each stadium subtly reflects the character of the franchises that built them. Yankee Stadium is the kind of stoic, self-conscious monument to history that befits the most successful franchise in American sports. The new home of the Mets, meanwhile, is scrappier and more lighthearted. It plays with history fast and loose, as if it were just another form of entertainment. Yankee management started talking about replacing the old stadium more than a decade ago, and this seemed to be the tougher challenge: the stadium sparkled with the memories of 26 World Series championships. Architecturally, however, the stadium was charmless. Renovation in the 1970s may have made it more comfortable (fans loathed the painful wooden seats of the original version), but it also destroyed many architectural features. The original copper frieze that lined the stadium�s upper deck was ripped out. (A partial concrete replica was added later.) The monuments that had once stood in the deepest recesses of center field were moved to an insipid space behind the left-center field fence and named Monument Park. The little personality the stadium had came from its site: a tight urban lot framed by elevated subway tracks on one side and a city park on the other. The new stadium, which stands across the street from the old one, spruces up that image while reviving some of the lost history. The towering arched windows that dominated the original exterior, an echo of the Roman Colosseum, have been recast in a mix of limestone, granite and cast stone, and they are as imposing as ever. A small urban plaza, raised just above the level of the sidewalk, faces the bars and souvenir shops along River Avenue and the entry to the elevated train, strengthening the structure�s relationship to its urban setting. The city has also promised to build a park and several ball fields just to the south of the stadium in an effort to put a more community-friendly face on the project. A broad pedestrian walkway will eventually link the stadium to the fields and a Metro-North station farther to the south. The biggest improvements, however, are the interiors, which have been organized with an eye to the fans. The concourses are broad open spaces, with concession stands set along the perimeter so that they don�t obstruct views down to the field. More seats are concentrated below the mezzanine level, closer to the action. Even the luxury suites, which suddenly look like a holdover from the era of corporate excess, are discreetly set back so that they don�t detract from the shared intimacy of watching the game. There�s history here, too, or at least a facsimile of it. The Yankees have brought back the old manually operated scoreboards in left and right field, a feature that was last used in the 1960s. A replica of the old frieze sits along the top of the upper deck. Best of all, the slot that separated the scoreboard from the right-field stands in the old stadium has been recreated, so you can still catch glimpses of the subway rumbling by � a reminder that the stadium has been carved out of the heart of a living, thriving city. All in all, the new Yankee Stadium may be an austere, even intimidating place, but there�s nothing tacky about it. It�s straightforward, paint-by-numbers architecture. Getting to Citi Field is a more drawn-out aesthetic experience. Descending from the elevated 7 train in Queens, you have to cross a wide landscaped plaza before arriving at the main entry gate. A sea of parking stretches out in both directions. A pile of rubble (once the old Shea Stadium) currently lies just beyond the parking to the left. The building fits comfortably in this setting. Yankee Stadium�s facade is dominated by vertical lines, which emphasize its monumentality. Citi Field�s facade, which is loosely modeled on Ebbets Field, the former home of the Brooklyn Dodgers, is more low-key. Its brick cladding gives it a warmth that Yankee Stadium doesn�t have. A pre-cast concrete band cuts across the arched exterior, breaking down the structure�s scale and emphasizing its horizontality. History also feels less heavy here. Like the Yankees, the Mets built broad concourses that open up to the field so that you feel close to the game even while you�re standing in line for a beer. But the design is far more eclectic. A porch that cantilevers out over right field is modeled on the old Tiger Stadium. Big steel trusses conjure the structure that supports the nearby elevated train. A soot-colored pedestrian bridge that spans the bullpen behind center field is a miniature version of the Hell Gate Bridge. Even the color of the seats � dark green � was copied from somewhere else: the Polo Grounds, where the New York Giants baseball team played and the Mets played their first two seasons. The casual mood is reinforced by a number of spaces that have little to do with watching a baseball game: an auditorium, a Wiffle ball field � even an event room for weddings or parties. What saves the design from becoming completely hokey, however, is its openness to the real world outside. Most of Queens, from the faded remnants of the 1964 World�s Fair to the Whitestone Expressway and the muddy waters of Flushing Bay, is visible from the main concourse level. Farther up, you can see the Manhattan skyline several miles away. The visitors� bullpen has a view of dilapidated garages and auto body shops across 126th Street to the northeast. The reality of this working-class landscape tempers the artificiality of the interior. Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. And in that regard both stadiums will be a disappointment to students of architecture. For us, the buildings are just another reminder of the enormous gap that remains between high design and popular taste. dinosaur jesus Apr 03 2009 07:12 AM ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it? Frayed Knot Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM I like the part where Hankenbrenner (or was it Hal-enbrenner?) says; 'yeah, we overpriced some of the seats and as a result they're not selling as well as we hoped ... but we didn't misread the market!' Umm, yeah ya did. In fact, that's kind of the definition of misreading the market. Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM ="dinosaur jesus"] ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it? I don't know enough about architecture to explain why I agree with that statement, but I do. I would rather the Mets had built a stadium the reflects early 21st Century architecture, whatever it is. Citi Field looks like a nice place to watch a game, and it's visually appealing, but it also has a Disney feel to it, like you're in "Baseball Land." soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:35 AM These two come to mind when I think about new stadiums with a modern bent. Target Field, which is the new stadium now being built for the twins in Minnesota. Nationals - Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:00 AM Glass façades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety. Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either. soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 03 2009 08:21 AM ="Edgy DC":292rjkrd]Glass fa�ades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.[/quote:292rjkrd] That's an interesting point, but perhaps the juxtaposition of those types of elements is what appeals to an architect trying to make a statement? I'm certain Art Van DeLay would find a way to make it work, soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3rv0nqrw]I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.[/quote:3rv0nqrw] Yeah - the Minnesota park has a sort of retro Jetsons feel to it. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:29 AM The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically. I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington. HahnSolo Apr 03 2009 01:35 PM Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark. metirish Apr 03 2009 06:33 PM ="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII.... IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED ] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 06:44 PM And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:16 PM Wolfie, save something for the regular season. MFS62 Apr 03 2009 08:56 PM I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores. I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField". The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium". Is that going to be the official name of that place? Later seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 08:57 PM Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too? themetfairy Apr 03 2009 08:58 PM ="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM ="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist. MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM ="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[seawolf17]

A 76.3% increase?!?! Eff you, Yankees. You too, Johnny Damon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4036916

[metirish]

Wankers - $41.40 to $72.97 - suckers

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Damon should stick to doing Gieco commercials.

[seawolf17]

="Rockin' Doc":lhs13t5x]Damon should stick to doing Gieco commercials.[/quote:lhs13t5x] Seriously. That pissed me off. "I mean, really, fuck the little guy. I make $13 million a year, guaranteed. So I don't care if they can't afford tickets; I wipe my ass with $1,000 bills."

Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2009 04:52 AM

A 76.3% increase in the cost of the average ticket for a seat at Yankee Stadium is once again, proof positive that it sucks to be a Yankees fan. Johnny Damon, it seems safe to conclude, is not exactly a thinking man. His comments are insensitive and out of touch with the day to day struggles of the common working man or woman.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 05:51 AM

="Johnny Damon":1g3apd5t]"It's tough. New York can withstand it," he said. "Coming to this plush building, I think it's definitely something that people want to see. I mean, those are great seats. It's going to be tough for a family to afford but, you know, but we'll let the people upstairs worry about that."[/quote:1g3apd5t] Clearly, the people upstairs don't give a damn either. Nymr83 Apr 03 2009 06:18 AM In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:00 AM Times has its architectural reviews of both stadia today... ] April 3, 2009 Architecture Review Two New Baseball Palaces, One Stoic, One Scrappy By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF American stadium design has been stuck in a nostalgic funk, with sports franchises recycling the same old images year after year. Still, if you have to go with a retro look, New York City could have done worse than the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field. Both were designed by Populous (formerly known as HOK Sport Venue Event) and are major upgrades over the stadiums they replaced, which had been looking more and more dilapidated over the years. Both should be fine places to spend a few hours watching a game. What�s more, each stadium subtly reflects the character of the franchises that built them. Yankee Stadium is the kind of stoic, self-conscious monument to history that befits the most successful franchise in American sports. The new home of the Mets, meanwhile, is scrappier and more lighthearted. It plays with history fast and loose, as if it were just another form of entertainment. Yankee management started talking about replacing the old stadium more than a decade ago, and this seemed to be the tougher challenge: the stadium sparkled with the memories of 26 World Series championships. Architecturally, however, the stadium was charmless. Renovation in the 1970s may have made it more comfortable (fans loathed the painful wooden seats of the original version), but it also destroyed many architectural features. The original copper frieze that lined the stadium�s upper deck was ripped out. (A partial concrete replica was added later.) The monuments that had once stood in the deepest recesses of center field were moved to an insipid space behind the left-center field fence and named Monument Park. The little personality the stadium had came from its site: a tight urban lot framed by elevated subway tracks on one side and a city park on the other. The new stadium, which stands across the street from the old one, spruces up that image while reviving some of the lost history. The towering arched windows that dominated the original exterior, an echo of the Roman Colosseum, have been recast in a mix of limestone, granite and cast stone, and they are as imposing as ever. A small urban plaza, raised just above the level of the sidewalk, faces the bars and souvenir shops along River Avenue and the entry to the elevated train, strengthening the structure�s relationship to its urban setting. The city has also promised to build a park and several ball fields just to the south of the stadium in an effort to put a more community-friendly face on the project. A broad pedestrian walkway will eventually link the stadium to the fields and a Metro-North station farther to the south. The biggest improvements, however, are the interiors, which have been organized with an eye to the fans. The concourses are broad open spaces, with concession stands set along the perimeter so that they don�t obstruct views down to the field. More seats are concentrated below the mezzanine level, closer to the action. Even the luxury suites, which suddenly look like a holdover from the era of corporate excess, are discreetly set back so that they don�t detract from the shared intimacy of watching the game. There�s history here, too, or at least a facsimile of it. The Yankees have brought back the old manually operated scoreboards in left and right field, a feature that was last used in the 1960s. A replica of the old frieze sits along the top of the upper deck. Best of all, the slot that separated the scoreboard from the right-field stands in the old stadium has been recreated, so you can still catch glimpses of the subway rumbling by � a reminder that the stadium has been carved out of the heart of a living, thriving city. All in all, the new Yankee Stadium may be an austere, even intimidating place, but there�s nothing tacky about it. It�s straightforward, paint-by-numbers architecture. Getting to Citi Field is a more drawn-out aesthetic experience. Descending from the elevated 7 train in Queens, you have to cross a wide landscaped plaza before arriving at the main entry gate. A sea of parking stretches out in both directions. A pile of rubble (once the old Shea Stadium) currently lies just beyond the parking to the left. The building fits comfortably in this setting. Yankee Stadium�s facade is dominated by vertical lines, which emphasize its monumentality. Citi Field�s facade, which is loosely modeled on Ebbets Field, the former home of the Brooklyn Dodgers, is more low-key. Its brick cladding gives it a warmth that Yankee Stadium doesn�t have. A pre-cast concrete band cuts across the arched exterior, breaking down the structure�s scale and emphasizing its horizontality. History also feels less heavy here. Like the Yankees, the Mets built broad concourses that open up to the field so that you feel close to the game even while you�re standing in line for a beer. But the design is far more eclectic. A porch that cantilevers out over right field is modeled on the old Tiger Stadium. Big steel trusses conjure the structure that supports the nearby elevated train. A soot-colored pedestrian bridge that spans the bullpen behind center field is a miniature version of the Hell Gate Bridge. Even the color of the seats � dark green � was copied from somewhere else: the Polo Grounds, where the New York Giants baseball team played and the Mets played their first two seasons. The casual mood is reinforced by a number of spaces that have little to do with watching a baseball game: an auditorium, a Wiffle ball field � even an event room for weddings or parties. What saves the design from becoming completely hokey, however, is its openness to the real world outside. Most of Queens, from the faded remnants of the 1964 World�s Fair to the Whitestone Expressway and the muddy waters of Flushing Bay, is visible from the main concourse level. Farther up, you can see the Manhattan skyline several miles away. The visitors� bullpen has a view of dilapidated garages and auto body shops across 126th Street to the northeast. The reality of this working-class landscape tempers the artificiality of the interior. Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. And in that regard both stadiums will be a disappointment to students of architecture. For us, the buildings are just another reminder of the enormous gap that remains between high design and popular taste. dinosaur jesus Apr 03 2009 07:12 AM ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it? Frayed Knot Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM I like the part where Hankenbrenner (or was it Hal-enbrenner?) says; 'yeah, we overpriced some of the seats and as a result they're not selling as well as we hoped ... but we didn't misread the market!' Umm, yeah ya did. In fact, that's kind of the definition of misreading the market. Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM ="dinosaur jesus"] ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it? I don't know enough about architecture to explain why I agree with that statement, but I do. I would rather the Mets had built a stadium the reflects early 21st Century architecture, whatever it is. Citi Field looks like a nice place to watch a game, and it's visually appealing, but it also has a Disney feel to it, like you're in "Baseball Land." soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:35 AM These two come to mind when I think about new stadiums with a modern bent. Target Field, which is the new stadium now being built for the twins in Minnesota. Nationals - Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:00 AM Glass façades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety. Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either. soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 03 2009 08:21 AM ="Edgy DC":292rjkrd]Glass fa�ades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.[/quote:292rjkrd] That's an interesting point, but perhaps the juxtaposition of those types of elements is what appeals to an architect trying to make a statement? I'm certain Art Van DeLay would find a way to make it work, soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3rv0nqrw]I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.[/quote:3rv0nqrw] Yeah - the Minnesota park has a sort of retro Jetsons feel to it. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:29 AM The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically. I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington. HahnSolo Apr 03 2009 01:35 PM Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark. metirish Apr 03 2009 06:33 PM ="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII.... IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED ] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 06:44 PM And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:16 PM Wolfie, save something for the regular season. MFS62 Apr 03 2009 08:56 PM I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores. I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField". The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium". Is that going to be the official name of that place? Later seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 08:57 PM Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too? themetfairy Apr 03 2009 08:58 PM ="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM ="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist. MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM ="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

A 76.3% increase in the cost of the average ticket for a seat at Yankee Stadium is once again, proof positive that it sucks to be a Yankees fan.

Johnny Damon, it seems safe to conclude, is not exactly a thinking man. His comments are insensitive and out of touch with the day to day struggles of the common working man or woman.

[Benjamin Grimm]

="Johnny Damon":1g3apd5t]"It's tough. New York can withstand it," he said. "Coming to this plush building, I think it's definitely something that people want to see. I mean, those are great seats. It's going to be tough for a family to afford but, you know, but we'll let the people upstairs worry about that."[/quote:1g3apd5t] Clearly, the people upstairs don't give a damn either.

Nymr83 Apr 03 2009 06:18 AM

In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea)

soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:00 AM

Times has its architectural reviews of both stadia today... ] April 3, 2009 Architecture Review Two New Baseball Palaces, One Stoic, One Scrappy By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF American stadium design has been stuck in a nostalgic funk, with sports franchises recycling the same old images year after year. Still, if you have to go with a retro look, New York City could have done worse than the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field. Both were designed by Populous (formerly known as HOK Sport Venue Event) and are major upgrades over the stadiums they replaced, which had been looking more and more dilapidated over the years. Both should be fine places to spend a few hours watching a game. What�s more, each stadium subtly reflects the character of the franchises that built them. Yankee Stadium is the kind of stoic, self-conscious monument to history that befits the most successful franchise in American sports. The new home of the Mets, meanwhile, is scrappier and more lighthearted. It plays with history fast and loose, as if it were just another form of entertainment. Yankee management started talking about replacing the old stadium more than a decade ago, and this seemed to be the tougher challenge: the stadium sparkled with the memories of 26 World Series championships. Architecturally, however, the stadium was charmless. Renovation in the 1970s may have made it more comfortable (fans loathed the painful wooden seats of the original version), but it also destroyed many architectural features. The original copper frieze that lined the stadium�s upper deck was ripped out. (A partial concrete replica was added later.) The monuments that had once stood in the deepest recesses of center field were moved to an insipid space behind the left-center field fence and named Monument Park. The little personality the stadium had came from its site: a tight urban lot framed by elevated subway tracks on one side and a city park on the other. The new stadium, which stands across the street from the old one, spruces up that image while reviving some of the lost history. The towering arched windows that dominated the original exterior, an echo of the Roman Colosseum, have been recast in a mix of limestone, granite and cast stone, and they are as imposing as ever. A small urban plaza, raised just above the level of the sidewalk, faces the bars and souvenir shops along River Avenue and the entry to the elevated train, strengthening the structure�s relationship to its urban setting. The city has also promised to build a park and several ball fields just to the south of the stadium in an effort to put a more community-friendly face on the project. A broad pedestrian walkway will eventually link the stadium to the fields and a Metro-North station farther to the south. The biggest improvements, however, are the interiors, which have been organized with an eye to the fans. The concourses are broad open spaces, with concession stands set along the perimeter so that they don�t obstruct views down to the field. More seats are concentrated below the mezzanine level, closer to the action. Even the luxury suites, which suddenly look like a holdover from the era of corporate excess, are discreetly set back so that they don�t detract from the shared intimacy of watching the game. There�s history here, too, or at least a facsimile of it. The Yankees have brought back the old manually operated scoreboards in left and right field, a feature that was last used in the 1960s. A replica of the old frieze sits along the top of the upper deck. Best of all, the slot that separated the scoreboard from the right-field stands in the old stadium has been recreated, so you can still catch glimpses of the subway rumbling by � a reminder that the stadium has been carved out of the heart of a living, thriving city. All in all, the new Yankee Stadium may be an austere, even intimidating place, but there�s nothing tacky about it. It�s straightforward, paint-by-numbers architecture. Getting to Citi Field is a more drawn-out aesthetic experience. Descending from the elevated 7 train in Queens, you have to cross a wide landscaped plaza before arriving at the main entry gate. A sea of parking stretches out in both directions. A pile of rubble (once the old Shea Stadium) currently lies just beyond the parking to the left. The building fits comfortably in this setting. Yankee Stadium�s facade is dominated by vertical lines, which emphasize its monumentality. Citi Field�s facade, which is loosely modeled on Ebbets Field, the former home of the Brooklyn Dodgers, is more low-key. Its brick cladding gives it a warmth that Yankee Stadium doesn�t have. A pre-cast concrete band cuts across the arched exterior, breaking down the structure�s scale and emphasizing its horizontality. History also feels less heavy here. Like the Yankees, the Mets built broad concourses that open up to the field so that you feel close to the game even while you�re standing in line for a beer. But the design is far more eclectic. A porch that cantilevers out over right field is modeled on the old Tiger Stadium. Big steel trusses conjure the structure that supports the nearby elevated train. A soot-colored pedestrian bridge that spans the bullpen behind center field is a miniature version of the Hell Gate Bridge. Even the color of the seats � dark green � was copied from somewhere else: the Polo Grounds, where the New York Giants baseball team played and the Mets played their first two seasons. The casual mood is reinforced by a number of spaces that have little to do with watching a baseball game: an auditorium, a Wiffle ball field � even an event room for weddings or parties. What saves the design from becoming completely hokey, however, is its openness to the real world outside. Most of Queens, from the faded remnants of the 1964 World�s Fair to the Whitestone Expressway and the muddy waters of Flushing Bay, is visible from the main concourse level. Farther up, you can see the Manhattan skyline several miles away. The visitors� bullpen has a view of dilapidated garages and auto body shops across 126th Street to the northeast. The reality of this working-class landscape tempers the artificiality of the interior. Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. And in that regard both stadiums will be a disappointment to students of architecture. For us, the buildings are just another reminder of the enormous gap that remains between high design and popular taste.

dinosaur jesus Apr 03 2009 07:12 AM

]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it?

Frayed Knot Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM

I like the part where Hankenbrenner (or was it Hal-enbrenner?) says; 'yeah, we overpriced some of the seats and as a result they're not selling as well as we hoped ... but we didn't misread the market!' Umm, yeah ya did. In fact, that's kind of the definition of misreading the market.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 07:20 AM

="dinosaur jesus"] ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it? I don't know enough about architecture to explain why I agree with that statement, but I do. I would rather the Mets had built a stadium the reflects early 21st Century architecture, whatever it is. Citi Field looks like a nice place to watch a game, and it's visually appealing, but it also has a Disney feel to it, like you're in "Baseball Land."

soupcan Apr 03 2009 07:35 AM

These two come to mind when I think about new stadiums with a modern bent. Target Field, which is the new stadium now being built for the twins in Minnesota. Nationals -

Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:00 AM

Glass façades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM

I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.

soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:19 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 03 2009 08:21 AM

="Edgy DC":292rjkrd]Glass fa�ades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.[/quote:292rjkrd] That's an interesting point, but perhaps the juxtaposition of those types of elements is what appeals to an architect trying to make a statement? I'm certain Art Van DeLay would find a way to make it work, soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:20 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":3rv0nqrw]I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.[/quote:3rv0nqrw] Yeah - the Minnesota park has a sort of retro Jetsons feel to it. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:29 AM The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically. I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington. HahnSolo Apr 03 2009 01:35 PM Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark. metirish Apr 03 2009 06:33 PM ="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII.... IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED ] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 06:44 PM And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:16 PM Wolfie, save something for the regular season. MFS62 Apr 03 2009 08:56 PM I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores. I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField". The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium". Is that going to be the official name of that place? Later seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 08:57 PM Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too? themetfairy Apr 03 2009 08:58 PM ="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM ="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist. MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM ="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[nymr83]

In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea)

[soupcan]

Times has its architectural reviews of both stadia today...

] April 3, 2009 Architecture Review Two New Baseball Palaces, One Stoic, One Scrappy By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF American stadium design has been stuck in a nostalgic funk, with sports franchises recycling the same old images year after year. Still, if you have to go with a retro look, New York City could have done worse than the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field. Both were designed by Populous (formerly known as HOK Sport Venue Event) and are major upgrades over the stadiums they replaced, which had been looking more and more dilapidated over the years. Both should be fine places to spend a few hours watching a game. What�s more, each stadium subtly reflects the character of the franchises that built them. Yankee Stadium is the kind of stoic, self-conscious monument to history that befits the most successful franchise in American sports. The new home of the Mets, meanwhile, is scrappier and more lighthearted. It plays with history fast and loose, as if it were just another form of entertainment. Yankee management started talking about replacing the old stadium more than a decade ago, and this seemed to be the tougher challenge: the stadium sparkled with the memories of 26 World Series championships. Architecturally, however, the stadium was charmless. Renovation in the 1970s may have made it more comfortable (fans loathed the painful wooden seats of the original version), but it also destroyed many architectural features. The original copper frieze that lined the stadium�s upper deck was ripped out. (A partial concrete replica was added later.) The monuments that had once stood in the deepest recesses of center field were moved to an insipid space behind the left-center field fence and named Monument Park. The little personality the stadium had came from its site: a tight urban lot framed by elevated subway tracks on one side and a city park on the other. The new stadium, which stands across the street from the old one, spruces up that image while reviving some of the lost history. The towering arched windows that dominated the original exterior, an echo of the Roman Colosseum, have been recast in a mix of limestone, granite and cast stone, and they are as imposing as ever. A small urban plaza, raised just above the level of the sidewalk, faces the bars and souvenir shops along River Avenue and the entry to the elevated train, strengthening the structure�s relationship to its urban setting. The city has also promised to build a park and several ball fields just to the south of the stadium in an effort to put a more community-friendly face on the project. A broad pedestrian walkway will eventually link the stadium to the fields and a Metro-North station farther to the south. The biggest improvements, however, are the interiors, which have been organized with an eye to the fans. The concourses are broad open spaces, with concession stands set along the perimeter so that they don�t obstruct views down to the field. More seats are concentrated below the mezzanine level, closer to the action. Even the luxury suites, which suddenly look like a holdover from the era of corporate excess, are discreetly set back so that they don�t detract from the shared intimacy of watching the game. There�s history here, too, or at least a facsimile of it. The Yankees have brought back the old manually operated scoreboards in left and right field, a feature that was last used in the 1960s. A replica of the old frieze sits along the top of the upper deck. Best of all, the slot that separated the scoreboard from the right-field stands in the old stadium has been recreated, so you can still catch glimpses of the subway rumbling by � a reminder that the stadium has been carved out of the heart of a living, thriving city. All in all, the new Yankee Stadium may be an austere, even intimidating place, but there�s nothing tacky about it. It�s straightforward, paint-by-numbers architecture. Getting to Citi Field is a more drawn-out aesthetic experience. Descending from the elevated 7 train in Queens, you have to cross a wide landscaped plaza before arriving at the main entry gate. A sea of parking stretches out in both directions. A pile of rubble (once the old Shea Stadium) currently lies just beyond the parking to the left. The building fits comfortably in this setting. Yankee Stadium�s facade is dominated by vertical lines, which emphasize its monumentality. Citi Field�s facade, which is loosely modeled on Ebbets Field, the former home of the Brooklyn Dodgers, is more low-key. Its brick cladding gives it a warmth that Yankee Stadium doesn�t have. A pre-cast concrete band cuts across the arched exterior, breaking down the structure�s scale and emphasizing its horizontality. History also feels less heavy here. Like the Yankees, the Mets built broad concourses that open up to the field so that you feel close to the game even while you�re standing in line for a beer. But the design is far more eclectic. A porch that cantilevers out over right field is modeled on the old Tiger Stadium. Big steel trusses conjure the structure that supports the nearby elevated train. A soot-colored pedestrian bridge that spans the bullpen behind center field is a miniature version of the Hell Gate Bridge. Even the color of the seats � dark green � was copied from somewhere else: the Polo Grounds, where the New York Giants baseball team played and the Mets played their first two seasons. The casual mood is reinforced by a number of spaces that have little to do with watching a baseball game: an auditorium, a Wiffle ball field � even an event room for weddings or parties. What saves the design from becoming completely hokey, however, is its openness to the real world outside. Most of Queens, from the faded remnants of the 1964 World�s Fair to the Whitestone Expressway and the muddy waters of Flushing Bay, is visible from the main concourse level. Farther up, you can see the Manhattan skyline several miles away. The visitors� bullpen has a view of dilapidated garages and auto body shops across 126th Street to the northeast. The reality of this working-class landscape tempers the artificiality of the interior. Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. And in that regard both stadiums will be a disappointment to students of architecture. For us, the buildings are just another reminder of the enormous gap that remains between high design and popular taste.

[dinosaur jesus]

]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings.

The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it?

[Frayed Knot]

I like the part where Hankenbrenner (or was it Hal-enbrenner?) says; 'yeah, we overpriced some of the seats and as a result they're not selling as well as we hoped ... but we didn't misread the market!'




Umm, yeah ya did. In fact, that's kind of the definition of misreading the market.

[Benjamin Grimm]

="dinosaur jesus"] ]Even so, most serious architects today strive to create buildings that reflect the values of their own era, not a nostalgic vision of the past, no matter how open they may be toward their surroundings. The whole game of baseball is a nostalgic vision of the past. What values of our own era do we really want to bring to it?

I don't know enough about architecture to explain why I agree with that statement, but I do.

I would rather the Mets had built a stadium the reflects early 21st Century architecture, whatever it is. Citi Field looks like a nice place to watch a game, and it's visually appealing, but it also has a Disney feel to it, like you're in "Baseball Land."

[soupcan]

These two come to mind when I think about new stadiums with a modern bent.

Target Field, which is the new stadium now being built for the twins in Minnesota.









Nationals -

[Guest Edgy DC]

Glass façades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths.

Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.

[soupcan]

="Edgy DC":292rjkrd]Glass fa�ades and baseball go together like bleach and baby baths. Even if there's no real threat of the two actually coming together --- and even if the vulnerable element is reinforced against the dangerous element --- it creates an atmophere of anxiety.[/quote:292rjkrd] That's an interesting point, but perhaps the juxtaposition of those types of elements is what appeals to an architect trying to make a statement? I'm certain Art Van DeLay would find a way to make it work,

soupcan Apr 03 2009 08:20 AM

="Benjamin Grimm":3rv0nqrw]I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.[/quote:3rv0nqrw] Yeah - the Minnesota park has a sort of retro Jetsons feel to it. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:29 AM The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically. I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington. HahnSolo Apr 03 2009 01:35 PM Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark. metirish Apr 03 2009 06:33 PM ="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII.... IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED ] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 06:44 PM And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:16 PM Wolfie, save something for the regular season. MFS62 Apr 03 2009 08:56 PM I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores. I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField". The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium". Is that going to be the official name of that place? Later seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 08:57 PM Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too? themetfairy Apr 03 2009 08:58 PM ="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM ="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist. MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM ="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[soupcan]

="Benjamin Grimm":3rv0nqrw]I kinda like the Minnesota park. The Nationals less so, but it's not bad either.[/quote:3rv0nqrw] Yeah - the Minnesota park has a sort of retro Jetsons feel to it.

Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:29 AM

The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically. I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington.

HahnSolo Apr 03 2009 01:35 PM

Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark.

metirish Apr 03 2009 06:33 PM

="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea) Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII.... IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED ] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff.

seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 06:44 PM

And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line.

Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 08:16 PM

Wolfie, save something for the regular season.

MFS62 Apr 03 2009 08:56 PM

I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores. I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField". The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium". Is that going to be the official name of that place? Later

seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 08:57 PM

Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?

themetfairy Apr 03 2009 08:58 PM

="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991. seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM ="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist. MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM ="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Nats park has like five different tiers, each one more heavily raked than the one below it. Sometimes the price of everybody being closer to the field horizontally is that you get some crazy options vertically.

I'm sure you'll hear Keith complain this season about the vertigo-inducing situation of their press box. That is, if Mr. Fancy Pants makes a road trip to Washington.

[HahnSolo]

Hmm. I guess my perception of Nationals Park was different. I took the Metro to the game and walked in through the CF promenade. And we sat field level, so I didn't notice the slopes in the upper reaches. I never saw the glass encasings in the photo above, and liked the interior of the ballpark.

[metirish]

="Nymr83"]In the post this morning Sherman says bad things about the New Yankee stadium while Kevin Kernan has some faint praise for Citi Field (though more dumping on Shea)

Sherman just about takes a dump on the doorstep of the new MYF stadium

I'm biased of course but I have tuned into YES a few times and if I didn't know better I would think they were playing the the MFYII....


IN TOUGH TIMES, A MONUMENT TO GREED

] IT IS beautiful, of course. But in the way that a woman who went to the world's best plastic surgeon might be beautiful. It is supposed to remind you of the previous incarnation, and ends up feeling artificial and overdone. The new Yankee Stadium has just about everything you would want in a modern sports facility, except charm and a sense of proportion. If you can afford the prices, you should have a good time there. The sightlines are wonderful. The large screen in center field is so clear you really do feel as if you could reach out and touch the people on it. The concourses are wide, and the food choices abundant. Yet the place brought nausea, not nostalgia. It just feels like the wrong time in the history of this country and this city to be opening up the George Mahal. When the project was initiated 2 � years ago, the Yankees could not have known what the state of the economy was going to be now. But this is about more than wrong place, wrong time. The Yankees' sense of entitlement and unrestrained excess is timeless. They will tell you they built this stadium for the everyman, stressing what they consider still affordable pricing and amenities. But this stadium, in actuality, was built for a moneyed class that in many respects does not even exist in this city any longer. Those $2,625-per-game Legends tickets behind home plate are selling slowly, and that certainly is because there is a whole class of banking/Wall Street/real estate mogul who would have scooped them up but has gone the way of flannel uniforms. But also because those seats not long ago would have screamed status, and now speak only to greed. The working world will not look onto those sitting there with envy. They will wish that those seats came with a dunk tank, not waiter service. The Yanks also want to make you believe that the history and romance could be easily shipped from the old place to the new one simply by recreating dimensions, reconstructing the facade or replanting Monument Park. However, the new Stadium didn't make me think of the place just across the street. It made me think about Vegas or Disney World, since it made me think of a fake place designed to manipulate my emotions and get into my wallet. "We don't see it as ostentatious or flashy," Hal Steinbrenner said. "We see it as classy." For me, class is out. In truth, sadly, the Yanks have conjured up a building that defines them: cold, corporate, over-privileged. At a financially distressed time in which Bud Selig has appealed to teams and players to be more fan friendly than ever, the Yanks have constructed even more of a moat between their players and those paying for all the goodies. For example, Yankee executives see it as a positive that the players now have underground parking rather than in the old place, where they had to walk 50 feet outdoors from the parking lot to the Stadium. In those 50 feet, fans held back by barricades could scream to their favorite players and -- if one of those players indulged -- get an autograph or two. Now the interaction between fans and players, and media and players, will be less than ever. I know no one sheds a tear for the media, but I think the new clubhouse, overstocked with off-limits areas and clandestine exits, only leads to a group that will feel less accountability. And an over-privileged nature and lack of accountability have hurt recent editions of the Yankees. "We are not a regular team," Brian Bruney said. "We are the New York Yankees, and it has to be nicer." Nice is in the eye of the beholder, and if you work for one of those few places left where the corporate card is still set on unlimited, then the new Yankee Stadium is for you. For many others, this place will have all the charm of Bernie Madoff.

[seawolf17]

And Brian Bruney, you're an overpaid tub of goo who can't find the strike zone with a guide dog who's lucky the Yankees wouldn't know pitching talent if it punched them in the neck, or you'd find yourself pitching for the Sioux City Sand Gnats. So shut the hell up and join Caveman on the Ass Line.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Wolfie, save something for the regular season.

[MFS62]

I just went on mlb.com to check the box scores.
I noticed that the Mets' game tonight was played at "CitiField".
The Yankees' game tonight was played at "New Yankee Stadium".
Is that going to be the official name of that place?

Later

[seawolf17]

Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?

[Guest themetfairy]

="seawolf17":3ge41hzz]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:3ge41hzz] Yes - that's what it was called when I visited the park in 1991.

seawolf17 Apr 03 2009 09:08 PM

="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season. I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs. You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist.

MFS62 Apr 04 2009 06:27 AM

="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure. SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM ="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[seawolf17]

="Edgy DC"]Wolfie, save something for the regular season.

I know, but again, this stuff pisses me off. Who the hell is Brian Bruney? Good thing crappy middle relievers don't bat in the American League, or if I'm Lou Piniella tomorrow, I buzz an exhibition fastball right past his manboobs.

You are "a regular team," Bruney. You're one of 30 teams that all need each other, or professional baseball doesn't exist.

[MFS62]

="seawolf17":11yncmqm]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:11yncmqm] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 04 2009 06:44 AM

No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name. 'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure.

SteveJRogers Apr 04 2009 06:45 AM

="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[Frayed Knot]

No, I don't believe 'New' is part of the official name.

'Fucking Gargantuan Edifice to Conspicuous Consumption' may be, although I'd have to check on that to be sure.

[stevejrogers]

="MFS62":2qks5l00] ="seawolf17":2qks5l00]Didn't they call it "New Comiskey" for a while too?[/quote:2qks5l00] Who is they? The White Sox? White Sox fans? The fans in Chicago? The papers in Chicago? But this is the official website of major league baseball itself. And that's why I asked if anyone knew if this is the official name of that place. Not just what some may call it. Later[/quote:2qks5l00] Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Reinsdorf didn't sell the naming rights until 2003. So it was Comiskey II from 1991 through 2003. G-Fafif Apr 04 2009 06:55 AM I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose. MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:56 PM Here's one you might not have heard about. (Thank you, Onion) http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_buil ding_new_vacation Later Kong76 Apr 09 2009 08:39 PM Dude, your link actually pointed to this: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to Figure out how to work stuff, child porn humor ain't for here. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 09 2009 10:01 PM I clicked the link and thought, "Damn, the bleeping Yankees really ARE trying to appeal to everyone. Now I know why they have that massive video board in center." MFS62 Apr 10 2009 07:36 AM Let's try that again. And let the ad finish. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/yankees_building_new_vacation EDIT: I tried it after I re-posted and it worked. Later

[G-Fafif]

I believe that someday Seawolf will punch that arrogant Brian Brueny at New Yankee Stadium on his fat nose.