2009 Mets Thoughts

[HahnSolo]

The story continues to have life because you still get the idiot fan out there who calls in every now and them to tell them that if it wasn't for Mike and Chris's campaigning the trade would not have happened.

I never directly heard, and I listened a lot, either Mike or Chris take credit for bringing Piazza here.

[Frayed Knot]

]Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah. Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs.

And for exactly the reason I said earlier in this thread; that he believes (as did his former partner) that players are either clutch or unclutch and therefore once one is established on one side or the other they'll remain that way for the future.
- So Jeter = established clutch and any instances where he isn't is the outlier and normalcy will quickly return.
- ARod is NOT clutch and therefore getting a lesser player for him could still be an upgrade even though there are no real upgrades to ARod.
- and now Wright & Reyes, on the basis of the last two Septs, are flawed and therefore, like ARod, are part of the problem


I chuckle up at Lennon's use of stats in his column only because stats are useless in the face of "clutch" arguments since proponents of the clutch/choke dichotomy theory only cite evidence which backs up their point while ignoring any other. MF did this very thing by using numbers one minute to show how unclutch Wright has been, and then minutes later dismissing a caller who chimed in with contradictory data based on the fact that "you can make stats say anything you want".

Oh.

[soupcan]

HahnSolo wrote: I never directly heard, and I listened a lot, either Mike or Chris take credit for bringing Piazza here.

He never says 'thank you' when a caller says that, but his dismissals and denials just drip with insincerity that you can see the smugness.

Do you really think he doesn't believe it was because of him?

[HahnSolo]

I know his act, I'm sure he believes it.
Just wanted to point out for those that are not familiar with him that he never goes on air and claims "I brought Piazza here!" like the schmuck hosts out in the heartland who boast about how they got coaches fired.

[metsmarathon]

my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for.

and for the life of me, i cannot think of too many perennial mvp candidates who play gold glove* caliber defense, and are young and signed to favorable long term contracts, like wright.

i mean, even if i were a cold-hearted gm who didnt care about his home-grownedness, there's gotta be no more than 5 pitchers i would listen to offers to trade wright for, regardless of contract status, and prolly no more than 5 hitters.

i'm not sure if there are more than 15 players i'd listen to offers for reyes for.

and neither chase utley nor jimmy rollins are on either list, mike.

...

oh, also, don mattingly is an abberration in that he's the only home grown yankee with no rings that the fans love. the exception, as it were, that proves the rule that yankee fans only love home grown players who deliver rings. and as he's going on and on about this, all i can think of is... other than mattingly, what really good home grown yankees never got rings, that the yankee fans would have an opportunity to hate? i mean, with 26 rings in 100 or so years, most home grown yankees, good or bad, got rings, didn't they?

...

* 'gold glove' meaning plays excellent defense, not has won an award, as the best defenders do not always win the award, and bad defenders sometimes do. similar to 'mvp caliber'

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mel Stottlemyre? Roy White? I think they both played in the losing cause in the 1964 World Series, but I don't know (I'd have to look it up) if either was ever with a World Series winner. (I guess 1962 would be most likely.)

[batmagadanleadoff]

metsmarathon wrote: my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for.

In my entire life, I don't think that I've spent as much as three hours combined, voluntarily listening to that show. The only time I listen is when I'm a captive passenger, riding in someone else's car, or when I want to find out whether a Met game might get canceled due to the weather conditions of that particular day.

[Guest AG/DC]

Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright:

• Hanley Ramirez

I'd likely consder and reject it, but there you have it. Ramirez is the best asset in the league right now, but not so much better than Wright that he trumps the heart.

[Guest AG/DC]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ="metsmarathon"]my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for. In my entire life, I don't think that I've spent as much as three hours combined, voluntarily listening to that show. The only time I listen is when I'm a captive passenger, riding in someone else's car, or when I want to find out whether a Met game might get canceled due to the weather conditions of that particular day.

Word.

[soupcan]

Its a bad habit, that I readily admit.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I always felt Francessa was much more arrogant and much less entertaining than Russo. The show is worse than ever.

[Frayed Knot]

AG/DC wrote: Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright: Hanley Ramirez

Who is, perhaps not coincidently, the only one that BP put ahead of Wright in their list of players they'd most want to build around over the next 5-7 years.

[metsmarathon]

yup. and reyes is sixth!

[Fman99]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ="Fman99"]Francesa is a 9.5 on the ****ometer. Punch him in the neck!

Finding Francesa's neck is like finding a unicorn.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Fman99 wrote: ="Benjamin Grimm"] Fman99 wrote: Francesa is a 9.5 on the ****ometer. Punch him in the neck! Finding Francesa's neck is like finding a unicorn.

Finding his neck has to be much easier than finding his brain. You'd likely need a proctologist to locate either one.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

For whatever it may be worth, Francessa certainly brings out the best of the worst in us.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

="Frayed Knot"] ="AG/DC"]Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright: Hanley Ramirez Who is, perhaps not coincidently, the only one that BP put ahead of Wright in their list of players they'd most want to build around over the next 5-7 years.

I'd only trade Wright or Reyes for Ramirez if I knew his defense at short from this year would be his norm from now on, or that he could play centerfield at a gold-glove caliber level. Of the other players listed in BP's top 5, I think Reyes is probably more valuable than Sizemore and Longoria due to defensive value and track record, respectively. I also will never believe that Pujols was born in 1980 unless Doc Brown picks me up in the Delorean and brings me to the hospital as Mama Pujols is giving birth.
So, players that might be an upgrade from Wright or Reyes:

Ramirez (maybe)

Players that are just about as valuable as Wright or Reyes:

Mauer
McCann
Longoria
Sizemore
A-Rod
Santana
Pujols

Of course, if Tampa Bay offered me Longoria and Kazmir for Wright, I'd do it in a second; but, outside of Ramirez, there isn't a single player in the majors I'd trade either Reyes or Wright for in a one-for-one swap.
I would, however, trade Mike Francesca for a bag of licorice twizzlers, and I HATE licorice twizzlers.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: I also will never believe that Pujols was born in 1980 unless Doc Brown picks me up in the Delorean and brings me to the hospital as Mama Pujols is giving birth.

Funny line. I always thought the same thing. About Pujols age. Not necessarily about time traveling in the Delorean just to confirm Pujols' age.

If Pujols were truly born in 1980, he'd be entering his prime right about now, and might be expected to have his very best seasons during the next three or four years. Unimaginable, right? Though this would hardly prove the issue, lets' see if there's significant improvement coming up, or a significant decline. The latter would tend to suggest that Pujols might have shaved a few years off his birth certificate, but would hardly constitute irrefutable proof on the matter.

He should win the MVP this year, agreed?

[Guest AG/DC]

Chipper is the only one who sniffed his air, and he had over 100 fewer plate appearances, so yeah, absolutely.

[Benjamin Grimm]

That Delgado talk sure died down, didn't it?

I bet Ryan Howard, rightly or wrongly, gets consideration for his strong September.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Berkman also had a great year, but right now I think we're in a time when every NL MVP should default to Pujols and every AL MVP should default to A-Rod, barring someone having a ridiculously superior season.

[metirish]

Silly Hot Stove talk

] Frank Russo, on New York Baseball Digest Radio's Yankee Special, mentioned that his connections have shared that the Mets are accepting inquiries for Carlos Beltran. And, further, according to Russo, his sources have also shared that there's a rumor of a possible deal between the Mets and Yankees which would breakdown as follows: Carlos Beltran from the Mets to the Yankees in exchange for Robinson Cano (with the Yankees taking on most of Cano's contract), either Jose Veras or Brian Bruney, Ian Kennedy, and another prospect from the Yankees system.