Pedro's Left Hamstring Thread

[Guest Triple Dee]

Willie says he's going to bring up Nelson Figueroa if Pedro goes on the DL according to Metsblog. Espen talks about signing Claudio Vargas. Metsblog also mentions Woody Williams.

[metirish]

All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT. I would start Sosa and bring up Figueroa to replace him and it that doesn't go well then swap them for a few starts. A big no to Woody Williams form me.

[Guest AG/DC]

It's the dead rooster's revenge, I tells ya.

[Frayed Knot]

Woody Williams is a Houston area native who said he would retire if he didn't make the Astros club and then specifically said he IS retired after he officially didn't make the Astros club.

[soupcan]

I think I'm siding with Lunchables on this Pedro thing.

I've told you guys before that the chick that cuts my kids hair goes out with (is now married to) one of the Mets assistant trainers. She's always said that her boyfriend/husband has told her that Pedro is a baby, that he whines about any minor discomfort and doesn't work hard to keep himself in shape contrary to what we've all been led to believe.

This 'injury' could very well be a direct result of the Mets allowing him to rehab and condition himself on his own without direct supervision from the Mets.

I think that when it became apparent that Pedro would not have the same success in his debut as Johan did in his, Pedro decided to, I don't know - I want to say feign injury but that might be too strong an accusation - take himself out of the game, blaming it on his hammy rather than having everyone compare him to Johan. This way he has an excuse for giving up 4 runs in 2 innings.

He says he felt/heard a 'pop'. That would mean a tear no? If it comes out that there is in fact a tear then I apologize to Pedro for saying he faked it but I still say the Mets should have overseen hisconditioning.

If there is no tear - am I maybe on the right track then?

[Guest Triple Dee]

metirish wrote: All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT.

I didn't get to watch SNY's coverage so I missed all that chat. Instead I was blessed to listen to the Marlins announcers, for the second day straight, harp on about Alfredo Amezaga as if was the second coming of Willie Mays. Lucky me.

[metirish]

I don't know about all that Soup, the Mets hired Pedro's personnel trainer , by all accounts he's in great shape and really would one of the games all time great pitchers and competitors fake injury because the new star player pitched a decent game the night before?.

Pedro I have no doubt can be a Diva but not to that level.

[metirish]

Triple Dee wrote: ="metirish"]All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT. I didn't get to watch SNY's coverage so I missed all that chat. Instead I was blessed to listen to the Marlins announcers, for the second day straight, harp on about Alfredo Amezaga as if was the second coming of Willie Mays. Lucky me.

Certainly not meant as a slight by me....I tuned into the Marlins for an inning and really they are horrible.

[soupcan]

You're probably right irish. I'm probably completely wrong.

These thoughts just pop into my head.

[Guest AG/DC]

There are sort of three levels of accusations there, aren't there?
1) Pedro doesn't train well;
2) the Mets let him train with inadequate supervision;
3) that he faked an injury --- which doesn't really jive with (1). (Is the injury a product of bad conditioning or his imagination.)

I'm most sympathetic to (1), and least to (3), but that would at least mean Pedro will be back soon.

[Willets Point]

4) Shit happens.

[soupcan]

Okay my post maybe went a bit too far.

How about - he doesn't train well, so when he was pitching poorly and his hammy or whatever is not 100% he decides, rather than to tough it out, to take himself out of the game and blame that rather than he's just having a bad game?

I don't think Pedro's diva-ness should be underestimated here. Just as I thought having Johan could inspire him, not being able to pitch at Santana's level could discourage him.

[Guest AG/DC]

That works. I'm not sure I buy it, but it's possible.

[Benjamin Grimm]

No way was that injury faked. The SNY camera caught Pedro's leg doing a funny buckle as he delivered that pitch. Intentionally jiggling your knee during a delivery would be reckless; it could cause the fake injury to become a real one instead.

I didn't hear much of the on-air speculation, and I wasn't in the IGT, but my plan matches what was stated above: promote Nelson Figgy for long relief and let Sosa get a start or two. He probably wouldn't need much more than that, as long as Orlando Hernandez returns when expected. (Which is far from a sure thing, of course.) Hernandez, by the way, is scheduled to start the Florida State League opener for the St. Lucie Mets tomorrow.

[Guest AG/DC]

Another un-mentioned option is Tony Harmless, Jr.

Minaya haters need their fuel.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I thought of him too.

I just can't get excited about having somebody else join the Lima/Park/Erickson club. And I suspect that's what we'd get from Armas. (Could be wrong though!)

[Guest AG/DC]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yeah, I thought of him too. I just can't get excited about having somebody else join the Lima/Park/Erickson club. And I suspect that's what we'd get from Armas. (Could be wrong though!)

James Baldwin is hurt. Brian Lawrence weeping.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I wouldn't say Pedro faked anything but do think he has -- and the Mets let him get away with -- a cavalier attitude about training. No bus trips. Have a few days off in the DR. Don;t bother with a real game -- throw a simulated one instead.

To an extent Pedro's got enough ability to allow him to train however he wishes but the guy has been U-S-E-L-E-S-S since September of 2005. I'm sure he'll be back to make a show of how great he is before his contract expires but when that happens I'll be sure to pat his ass on the way out. Nice job, Petey.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He was useful in September of 2007. Although his inability to pitch more frequently led us to that ill-fated Philip Humber start against the mighty Nationals.

[Valadius]

I agree with some of what soupy's saying. It will likely take longer for Pedro to come back than it would for other players because he's likely to get all whiny about rehab.

[Guest AG/DC]

He was also useful the first half of 2006, when his first half numbers gave him an All Star spot.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=martipe02&year=2006

[Frayed Knot]

There's a difference between labelling Pedro a diva in the 'these ice cubes in my drink aren't cold enough' kind of vein (an image I could absolutely buy) and suggesting that he deserves to be accused of faking injuries in order to bail on games or refusing to take the ball so as to make himself look better.

Up to and including his first year as a Met, Pedro started between 29 and 33 games in 10 of the previous 11 seasons (completing 45, btw, in this nobody pitches past 7 era), pitched over 200 innings in 7 of them, plus threw in the occasional emergency, short-rest, game-saving appearence in the post-season.

I don't think that a rep (at least not ON field) of being some kind of responsibility-shriking diva is earned in his case.






* I'm Jones-ing for Cleon !!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Valadius wrote: I agree with some of what soupy's saying. It will likely take longer for Pedro to come back than it would for other players because he's likely to get all whiny about rehab.

I don't think he'll be reluctant to rehab. I think he's driven and motivated to return. The problem, if there is one, may be his insistence on doing it his way. Players probably do know their own bodies better than the trainers do, but that doesn't mean that their judgment is best.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

AG/DC wrote: He was also useful the first half of 2006, when his first half numbers gave him an All Star spot. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=martipe02&year=2006

A spot he predictably bailed on. My bad for underestimating his contribution to the Mets success.

[Guest AG/DC]

His 2006 looks a lot like Pedro Astacio's 2002.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=astacpe01&year=2002

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: ...the guy has been U-S-E-L-E-S-S since September of 2005.

Point that Pedro hasn't been the man of steel since then taken (and assessment of his training methods not necessarily disputed at the moment), but the stated time frame seems a little off, literally speaking.

First eleven starts of 2006, when the Mets were building their impenetrable lead:

5-1
2.50 ERA
75.2 IP
44 Hits
17 Walks
88 Strikeouts

He had six starts that May that resulted in one loss and five no-decisions:

PIT 6 IP, 1 ER, 3 H, 1 BB, 9 K (Wagner BS in 9th)
PHI 7 IP, 3 ER, 4 H, 2 BB, 10 K (walkoff loss)
MIL 7 IP, 4 ER, 4 H, 2 BB, 10 K (walkoff loss)
MFY 7 IP, 0 ER, 4 H, 1 BB, 8 K (Wagner coughs up 9th)
FLA 7 IP, 2 ER, 5 H, 0 BB, 10 K
ARI 8 IP, 0 ER, 5 H, 0 BB, 8 K (Scoreless duel with Webb)

If he comes out of that May 8-1, which seems conservative and reasonable all things considered, I think we remember Pedro 2006 and the whole Pedro tenure a little more kindly. The bullpen did not perform up to early '06 standards in any of those games except the last one.

Since then, given his various maladies, I'd add that he's been intermittently very useful, though not as useful as he could be were he healthy. Whether his health has been hindered by how hard he is pushed or pushes himself, I could not say. But I would not say he's been useless since 9/05.

[Fman99]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: No way was that injury faked. The SNY camera caught Pedro's leg doing a funny buckle as he delivered that pitch. Intentionally jiggling your knee during a delivery would be reckless; it could cause the fake injury to become a real one instead.

I thought the same thing when I saw the replays. Clearly something in his leg gave out.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Thanks for straightening out the timeline, but I'm going to take issue with the general idea that a starting pitcher for a contending club can be "intermittently very useful" by its very definition. I'd say Pedro isn't actually intermittently useful, but intermittently effective.

Intermittentness is not a part of usefulness. And I fear the Mets are doomed to have this demonstrated for them again and again.

[G-Fafif]

Five effective starts in September 2007 must have some utility to them.

[Centerfield]

That MRI machine sure is taking a long time.