Willie's Seat ... and How Hot it Might Be

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]Heat's on Willie But Wilpon 'disappointed' in team from 'top to bottom' By Jon Heyman, SI The Mets could be in the midst of a historic collapse, and manager Willie Randolph assumes the posture of a man without a care, infuriating radio call-in people, bloggers and fanatical e-mailers. But now the complaints about Randolph are said to be more pointed than that and coming from people a lot closer to the situation, folks inside his own organization, in fact, some of whom have the ear of general manager Omar Minaya, who for three years has been Randolph's staunchest in-house supporter. No matter how many times Randolph, who is easily one of baseball's most experienced pennant-race participants over the past 30 years, tells everyone that, "This isn't Armageddon,'' no one is listening. Folks look at Randolph's lifeless, tight team and see a stoic leader, and they blame him. But according to people familiar with internal discussions, it isn't just the fans this time who are wondering whether Randolph's message is being lost and his strategies are misfiring. The Mets' message du jour is, "We're all in this together,'' but the reality is that there are cracks beneath the veneer. And it's only natural that the front office that for two years has been taking bows for assembling what's generally viewed as the National League's most talented team is wondering whether Randolph is getting the most out of his players. Eight straight losses to second-place Philadelphia and two bad ones to the Nats before Wednesday night's win -- not to mention 10 errors in back-to-back losses -- have everyone in Flushing searching for answers. "I'm disappointed with the way the team is performing overall, and that's everyone, top to bottom,'' Mets COO Jeff Wilpon told SI.com before Wednesday's much-needed win expanded New York's NL East lead over Philadelphia to 2� games. "I'm disappointed in Omar, Willie, the players ... that's everyone. We shouldn't be in this position. But we are. We've got to fight our way out and pull this out.'' Randolph's fate is said to be "up to Omar.'' And while there's no indication the manager's job is on the line, even if the freefall continues, say the unthinkable happens and the Mets miss the playoffs after leading their division since May 16. Randolph's status would take a clear hit. Minaya, who, let's not forget, has "full autonomy," is finally starting to hear some cries of bullpen mismanagement, and a couple holes are beginning to show in the relationship between the two great New York stories, the Brooklyn-bred manager and the Queens-raised GM. However, only one of them is facing the heat of this fire. Minaya was publicly deified for a string of superb transactions a year ago, and while last winter didn't measure up to the one before, the perception that this team's talent is too good to lose places the bull's-eye squarely on the manager. Everything was supposed to be going Randolph's way this year, too, with a rich two-year extension that'll pay him $2 million in 2008 and $2.5 million in '09 (heavy deterrents to a firing), and especially with Manny Acta -- who is personally closer to Minaya and other front-office members and who was perceived to be the heir apparent -- gone to Washington. But instead Acta's Gnats did a number on the Mets two straight nights, tightening New York's noose. The Mets' malaise started well before the All-Star break, and Randolph got hot when Minaya wrongly blamed hitting coach Rick Down (whom Minaya fired anyway). Things have not improved on the field since that misguided move; if anything, they've gotten worse. Meanwhile, Mets people adhere closely to their "all together'' mantra, refusing to open old wounds. Folks familiar with the team's internal discussions say the gripes about Randolph's strategies, particularly as they relate to the relief corps, have been going on behind closed doors since the early days of his three-year tenure. But until lately Minaya was having little of it. While it was the front office's call to give multi-year contracts to Scott Schoeneweis and the tainted Guillermo Mota, Randolph's over-reliance on Mota generally and Schoeneweis lately (the struggling lefty pitched in his fourth straight game Tuesday) has been questionable. While fans have accused Randolph of lacking passion, that's a bit unfair, as his department-store mannequin demeanor isn't appreciably different from the Yankees' iconic Joe Torre, who has also faced criticisms of bullpen mismanagement. Randolph has also been chided for going too easy on his players, though he correctly points out that he has engaged in many unreported one-on-one confabs. Club sources peg Randolph as generally a "non-confrontational'' type but insist that he can be tough on occasion, especially on prodigy Jose Reyes, who's talented, young and impressionable. One Mets person said Randolph recently berated Reyes for failing to hustle, an unreported confrontation that Reyes said he appreciated. "When he has something to say, he's going to say something to me,'' Reyes confirmed. "You appreciate it.'' The source also said Reyes shot back that Randolph shouldn't criticize only him. But Reyes insisted, "I don't worry about somebody else.'' They should all be worried now. What's hard not to notice is the surprising malaise that has infected this team for months. They are barely a .500 club since the end of May (one game over), a fact that isn't lost on a vigilant ownership that invested hard and wisely to turn the franchise around. If they blow it down the stretch, Randolph will still make it to 2008. But he'll make it with a noticeably shorter leash.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think a team can be both lifeless and tight. Pick one, Jon.

I'm looking at last night's comeback, followed by Wagner missing the bell and Wright's error, and I'm gueesing tight.

[soupcan]

]"I'm disappointed with the way the team is performing overall, and that's everyone, top to bottom,'' Mets COO Jeff Wilpon told SI.com before Wednesday's much-needed win expanded New York's NL East lead over Philadelphia to 2� games. "I'm disappointed in Omar, Willie, the players ... that's everyone. We shouldn't be in this position. But we are. We've got to fight our way out and pull this out.''

I agree with him, I'm disappointed too. What's the big deal about Jeffy saying it? I take it as just stating the obvious.




(OE: Ahhhh, Joel Youngblood. MUCH better than Jeff Kent)

[metirish]

If it's a big deal it might be because he is not heard from that much,I like that he said it and it should be an interesting winter if God forbid we don't make it to the play-offs and win.

[Benjamin Grimm]

My vote goes to tight as well.

They're definitely not lifeless. Look at all the runs they've been scoring.

But when they're in the field they look like they're playing as if they're afraid to lose. They need to shake that feeling. (I can understand how hard that must be. I can't shake that feeling either.)

[HahnSolo]

Nice timing by Jeff for his first comments about the team in I don't know how long.
Jeffy, go back to worrying about where the concessions will be at Citi Field, or dreaming up another way we can honor the Brooklyn Dodgers there.

[soupcan]

HahnSolo wrote: Nice timing by Jeff for his first comments about the team in I don't know how long. Jeffy, go back to worrying about where the concessions will be at Citi Field, or dreaming up another way we can honor the Brooklyn Dodgers there.

I'm not president of the Jeff Wilpon fan club or anything but who cares? What did he say that nobody already knew or felt? What does the timing have to do with it? They are suckier than sucking suck right now and everybody knows it.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I don't care what Jeff says or doesn't say. He's certainly entitled to his opinion.

I just don't like hearing Steinbrenner-esque bluster coming from the Mets front office.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You know, it strikes me that cleonjones21's time out expired about 10 days ago, and he should have posting priveleges now.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He left with a big f-you.

He may not care to come back.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, we've learned that in addition to knowing how to win, Willie Randolph also knows how to lose.

Now, the Mets may yet make the playoffs and win the 2007 World Series. But in the more likely event that they all go home after tomorrow's game, my vote is this: Fire Willie.

It's not really even about punishment or blame. I just think that, with this collapse on his permanent record, he's not the guy to run the team in 2008. His "quiet confidence" isn't going to carry any weight next spring in Port St. Lucie or when the season opens.

The Mets will need to wash the stink off them, and getting rid of Willie Randolph would be a key first step. It's not like they'd be losing anyone special. At best he was a halfway decent manager. Getting a replacement of his caliber (or, ideally, better) shouldn't be that hard.

I'd love to see the Mets with a smart manager. A legitimately bright guy. I think they've only had two such managers: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. I'd be glad to see either of those guys come back.

[nymr83]

we want Bobby V!

[metirish]

Agree with what Yancy said and I echo Nymr, I've read that Tony Bernazard is no fan of Willie, here is that article.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spken0929,0,1931195.column

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I'm not yet calling for Willie to get dumped. Bu I've always thought firing Valentine was a big mistake. He knew how to get guys fired up, and knew how to deflect the attention when it was going poorly.

Seems like he got dumped because he couldn't get along with Phillips, which, granted, is part of his job.

Wonder how he and Omar get along.

[nymr83]

Willie "arguing" with the umpires



Bobby V arguing with the umpires

[metsmarathon]

i'm not ready to say that willie should be fired.

i am, however, ready to say that willie needs to spend his entire offseason thinking about how and when to use relievers, and how and when to pull long relievers out of games in favor of pinch hitters after 0.1 innings of work.

its not inconceivable that his (mis)management of the bullpen led to its ultimate collapse, but its more likely that the bullpen collapsed of its own accord, gathering a precipitous momentum that dragged along with it all other phases of the game.

for that, i can blame minaya (lack of bp depth) and peterson (its his job, natch) more than willie. and both of them have had too much other successes for this failure to wipe away. their work brought the club to the point where the collapse of the bullpen is as calamitous as it is.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'd love to see the Mets with a smart manager. A legitimately bright guy. I think they've only had two such managers: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. I'd be glad to see either of those guys come back.

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/02/hire-manny-acta.html

We had one.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Okay, now that the collapse is official, so is my position:

I want Willie Randoph fired before the week is out.

[nymr83]

fire willie NOW, fire Rickey too. in fact, flush out the entire coaching staff immediately.

[bmfc1]

The stench of '07 will linger with Willie into '08. It will have a negative effect on the team and weigh it down. I hate to say it but I concur. He should be fired... but it won't happen. The Wilpon's don't want to appear Steinbrenneresq.

[TransMonk]

I would be pretty shocked if Willie were fired. But I certainly wouldn't disagree with the decision. It all depends on who would replace him.

[bmfc1]

Girardi. Oberkfell. When ST opens, if Willie is there, we will think of '07 and so will the team. Time for a change.

[Zvon]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Okay, now that the collapse is official, so is my position: I want Willie Randoph fired before the week is out.

If Bobby V could walk right into that office before its even in print, I will agree.

Someones head is gonna roll.
I keep thinking it's gonna be Peterson, though that might not be the correct or proper move. I just think our pitching was such a failure, and you can hang that on Omar to an extent, but I don't see him going anywhere.
Nor would I want to see him go anywhere.

I did see,....or I should say I didn't see alot of things that I wish I did see, when it came to looking at what Willie did in certain situations this season.

(okay, I think I've hedged all bets sufficiently there ^)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just want them to start with what they want and believe in, not what they don't want.

I know I want more than "I've been a winner all my life."

[Benjamin Grimm]

Especially now that that's no longer true. (Assuming it ever was.)

[soupcan]

I don't think Willie's to blame here and shouldn't be canned.

It was the pitching, plain and simple.

He could only pitch who he had. Omar supplied 'em and Petersen coached 'em.

Since Petersen was not a choice of Willie's why should Willie be fired?

Omar and Peterson are the architects of this collapse and since Omar isn't going anywhere Peterson is the one that should be shit-canned.

Nevertheless, if Bobby V. is available I'd love to have him back.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't blame Willie either. As I said in my post on Page 1 of the thread, it's not about blame it's about going forward. If he's still in the dugout next spring the stink of this season will be all over him. The players need someone who'll bring a new attitude, who can prevent this thing from carrying over. I don't think Willie can do that. And that's why I want him to go. It's about 2008, not about 2007.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Manager Keith Hernandez and pitching coach Ron Darling.

(Not really)

[Zvon]

Darling should be in baseball to more of a degree than just broadcasting. He's knowledgable.
Hernandez? Not so much.

How about we do what seems to be the way things are handled these days by parents.
Okay, make believe Reyes is our kid.
Find out who it is that Reyes has a problem with and kick him out the door.

Reyes obviously has a problem with someone on that team.

I say he should grow the fuck up, but if I said that to my kid these days I might actually find myself defending that statement in a court of law.

[metirish]

Edgy DC wrote: I just want them to start with what they want and believe in, not what they don't want. I know I want more than "I've been a winner all my life."

Yeah I don't want to hear that tripe anymore.

I would have no problem with the Wilpons cleaning house, if they keep Minaya(which they will I assume) does he still have full autonomy , should be a very interesting winter.