David Wright- MVP?

[metsmarathon]

i plan on eventually running the top MVP contenders in the NL through my schaeffer spreadsheet (the absolute points generator, not the relativistic vote generator that requires input from the entire team) to see how they compare.

obviously, i'll be more interested in this project if the mets make it, but will likely have more time to do it if they don't...

i figure i'll run matt holliday through forst, then maybe give peavy a try, and then go back to some more of hte top hitters. depending on how peavy compares, i might then have to do more pitchers.

the one drawback is that i don't do too much in terms of defense. i mean, i do have a checkbox for "webgems" (also have one for brain farts, or other mind numbingly dumb moves like endy's stolen third base the otehr night) but for this task, i won't be able to account for them.

i'd consider trying, based on mlb.com's available video highlights with top plays from each game, but those damned things never run on my computers, even the free ones. also, that'd just be a bit too much time to invest... maybe next year...

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Vic Sage - "the silver slugger doesn't address the issue because it gives 18 awards, arbitarily given by position, that might be ignoring many of the best hitters in each league, simply because there may be a hitter at their particular position that was better. To award a catcher over superior hitters at other positions, for example, doesn't really address the current underlying inequity."

Good point and I agree with it, but couldn't the same be said regarding the gold glove awards. The second best defensive shortstop, is likely better defensively and more valuable defensively than say the best fielding first baseman. The Gold Glove Awards are pretty well promoted and accepted by the general public. Unfortunately, the Gold Glove award is frequently awarded as much on reputation as it is actual defensive performance.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Vic Sage wrote: i've long clamored for something like this.There is a pitcher of the year award, there is an award for defense at each position, but how can their not be a hitter of the year in each league? well, of course, there was such an award.... that was what the mvp was created for.

Vic Sage wrote: i don't include pitchers in my personal consideration for the MVP because 1) when the MVP was created in 1911, there was no cy young award, so it was appropriate to consider both players and pitchers; 2) but pitchers have had a prestigious award that recognizes their accomplishment since 1956, and hitters don't, and 3) therefore, i exclude them from consideration as a protest against the fact of #2. Once hitting is separately acknowledged in the same way as pitching (and as you acknowlege, the Aaron award hardly accomplishes that), then I'd be happy to see the MVP go to anybody the writers felt deserving.

There's more important things, like my team crashing and burning, but these moving targets are difficult.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't think we'll be on the edges of our seats when it's time to announce the MVP winners next month.

I'm sure the collapse (or should it be known as "The Collapse" instead?) has killed David's candidacy.

[nymr83]

without a doubt it has.

i'd vote for Holliday, but Rollins, Peavy, Fielder, Ramirez, and probably a few other guys are up there too. theres no clear candidate.

[Valadius]

David won't get it.

The one thing that would have kept him as an option at the top was that the Mets were gonna be a playoff team. Now he ends up in 4th, most likely, behind Holliday, Rollins, and Fielder.

[soupcan]

My vote goes to Rollins.

[Frayed Knot]

I predict: Rollins, Fielder, Holiday, Wright

[metirish]

Were the votes cast, if not then when?

[Benjamin Grimm]

They get cast some time between the end of the regular season and before the playoffs start.

[Zvon]

Rollins.
Oh my, how it pains me to say that.


So what do I do with this?
Do I save it?
Burn it?
Give it to charity?
Whats the proper procedure.

[Benjamin Grimm]

How many hours per day do you spend Photoshopping Mets images?

[G-Fafif]

The Wright for MVP boomlet was symptomatic of what was wrong with the presumptuousness that surrounded this team all year. Wright is becoming a very good player. He is very valuable. To have lumped him in with Rollins or Holliday or Fielder for 2007 as most valuable was laughable when it was going on and it is sad today.

I don't want to give Glavine any outs (outs as in excuses, not outs as in Glavine should have gotten more than one), but as part of his standard not-my-fault sappy recap after the game, he was in "a couple of grounders got through, a couple of bloops fell in" mode -- and he was right about the Jacobs hit that eluded David. David did not move on that ball until it was definitively going by him. He has subpar reflexes for a third baseman.

In doling out blame, Wright would come in about 60th on this club, but it wasn't as if he put this team on his back and it was everybody else's fault either.

[Frayed Knot]

]To have lumped him in with Rollins or Holliday or Fielder for 2007 as most valuable was laughable when it was going on and it is sad today

I don't agree.
I think he was, and still is, a legit choice, just one that's going to fall a bit short due to various factors; among them his team not winning (blah, blah), his lack of any one great stat, the tendancy of writers to rely on "signature moments" such as Rollins on Sunday for their votes, etc.
But he had a better OBA than all and a better BA than all but Holliday, terrific 'across-the-board' stats, a great September (better than Rollins) even if his team didn't, all in a tougher hitters' park to contend with than the rest. Plus it's not like Holliday & Fielder are winning gold gloves at corner positions either.

[metsmarathon]

i'd have dwright as a better candidate, in my mind, than rollins fer sure.

[Zvon]

="Yancy Street Gang"]How many hours per day do you spend Photoshopping Mets images?

Is that a problem?
Jack: "Chloe, I need all the info we've got on a "Yancy" street gang.
Start with the New York data base. Work backwards from 'Z'."

[Guest Grote15]

I don't think Wright was an MVP candidate in the best of times..too many airmailed throws and then that force at third where he waited to tag the guy..ouch

I'd Rollins..but Fielder will probably get it

[Guest Edgy DC]

I thik Wright's reflexes are fine. I trust his reflexes better than I trust his nerves. He's seemingly sharper with less time to think.

[metsmarathon]

honestly, i don't think that tag at third was anything more than landing off balance from trying to snag the errant throw from loduca...

[Guest Edgy DC]

Holliday gets my vote as soon as he touches home plate.

[Guest holychicken]

Edgy DC wrote: Holliday gets my vote as soon as he touches home plate.

So does he get your vote or not? I am not sure. . .

What a game.

[Frayed Knot]

Helluva hitter but neither his fielding nor baserunning skills were on display tonight.

And that's part of the problem with the earlier anti-MVP argument for Wright; you're more likely to see the warts on your own guys simply because you see so much more of them.

[G-Fafif]

Frayed Knot wrote: Helluva hitter but neither his fielding nor baserunning skills were on display tonight. And that's part of the problem with the earlier anti-MVP argument for Wright; you're more likely to see the warts on your own guys simply because you see so much more of them.

Totally agree with that and totally agree that colors my impression of Wright. All I know from the other contenders are the heroics I hear about and then I get impatient waiting for the same performance from David.

I still never felt it from Wright, though.

[metsmarathon]

i think it'll go to holliday. he leads the league in average, rbi, and is up there in homers. and i don't think there's too much of an impression that he's a product of coors, regardless of the home/road splits.

[Frayed Knot]

Not really sure what kind of "performance" you feel is missing. Everything since
around May 1 has been awesome, and he spent August & September getting on base
nearly half the time.
I guess maybe if the staff didn't give away so many of our early 3, 4 and 5 runs leads
some of his early-inning RBIs & runs scored would have stood out more.


btw, NL leaders in 'Runs Created' (roughly the sum of all offensive stats translated into
a runs/game estimate for those not followers of that kind of stuff):
1 - Miguel Cabrera
2 - DAVID WRIGHT
3 - Hanley Ramirez
4 - MATT HOLLIDAY
5 - PRINCE FIELDER
6 - JIMMY ROLLINS
7 - Albert Pujols
8 - Ryan Howard
9 - Adrian Gonzalez
10 - Ryan Zimmerman

Now the difference between each spot is pretty much hair splitting when they're that
close - but it does show that the four presumed leaders are in the same ballpark with David
at worst holding his own.
Also, the same site I got those from also lists all four as being somewhat below average
at "being clutch" - iow, none of that group had any demonstrated ability (or even coincidental
ability) at timing their offensive output for maximum damage.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't like the notion that he's going to be hurt by not having a super stat.

He'd have more RBI if the guys in front of him had better years, he'd have more runs if the guys behind him had better years.

[metsmarathon]

there are so many damned runs created sites out there... and none of them agree.

hardball times disagrees with bbref which disagrees with espn.com

the underlying thread is that if wright isn't the best hitter in the NL, he's in the top three.

player	RC THT	RC ESPN	RC BBREF	AVG
wright	136	138.4	146	140.13
holliday	129	142.2	149	140.07
ramirez	130	136.5	141	135.83
fielder	127	135.5	143	135.17
cabrera	138	126.2	132	132.067
rollins	122	133.4	135	130.13
pujols	122	126.9	132	126.97
c jones	116	121.4	130	122.47
utley	109	121.3	130	120.1
reyes	107	112.2	110	109.73
beltran	104	107.1	109	106.7
byrnes	99	108	108	105
bonds	91	97.1	99	95.7

...

rank	RC THT	RC ESPN	RC BBREF	AVG
wright	2	2	2	2
holliday	4	1	1	2
ramirez	3	3	4	3.33
fielder	5	4	3	4
cabrera	1	7	6	4.67
rollins	6	5	5	5.33
pujols	6	6	6	6
c jones	8	8	8	8
utley	9	9	8	8.67
reyes	10	10	10	10
beltran	11	12	11	11.33
byrnes	12	11	12	11.67
bonds	13	13	13	13

but i don't think the voters look at this stuff...

[Vic Sage]

what about win shares and VORP rankings?

[metsmarathon]

last i checked, win shares on the hardball times hadn't been updated since 18 sept, when wright had a sizeable lead over pujols and the rest of the field.

vorp-wise, wright comes in second behind hanley ramirez. warp-wise, wright takes the cake.

i had put in that chart way back on page 2 i think, and nothing much has really changed wrt the relative rankings, tho the numbers have all gone up somewhat.

bottom line is that wright was still arguably the best player in the nl this year

[Guest Grote15]

All the stats here are valid and accurate but the voters vote on the buzz dujour....Unfortunately for David there ain't no buzz..this year....

I still think it will be Rollins...if not...The Prince of Tides Fielder