Willie got ripped off

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

If Joe Girardi was such a good manager, then...

1) Why did he finish six games below .500

2) How come he couldn't get along with his GM or owner?

3) Couldn't get a job managing this season, heading instead to the Yankees' booth?

That award should have been Willie's.

[nymr83]

="metsguyinmichigan"]If Joe Girardi was such a good manager, then... 1) Why did he finish six games below .500 because he had a payroll the size of arod's contract and a very inexperienced team 2) How come he couldn't get along with his GM or owner? beacuse the owner down there is a shmuck who doesnt care about winning 3) Couldn't get a job managing this season, heading instead to the Yankees' booth? That award should have been Willie's. want some cheese with that?

[metirish]

I've no problem with him winning,Leyland wins in American League.

[metsmarathon]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: 3) Couldn't get a job managing this season, heading instead to the Yankees' booth?

did he even try? it looks like he's just waiting out joe torre for the yankees job.

[Frayed Knot]

	1st Place	2nd Place	3rd Place	Total	No Vote
Girardi(Fla)	18	6	3	111	5
Randolph(NYM)	8	11	8	81	5
Bochy(SD)	5	6	7	50	14
Little(LA)	1	5	10	30	16
Manual(Phil)	0	3	0	9	29
Narron(Cinn)	0	1	3	6	28
Garner(Hou)	0	0	1	1	31

[Frayed Knot]

	1st Place	2nd Place	3rd Place	Total
Leyland(Det)	19	7	2	118
Gardenhire(Minn)	9	15	3	93
Macha(Oak)	0	5	11	26
Torre(NYY)	0	1	12	15

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I think as things turned out Willie certainly deserved the honor. But what can you do.

[Guest sharpie]

Hard to figure that third place vote for Garner.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Probably cast by a crony.

[Frayed Knot]

Always interesting when you see that 1st & 3rd place in the NL plus 3rd in the AL are all already out of their jobs.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Girardi was in the running for the Nats job and pulled out, probably figuring (with more than some risk) that sitting tight in the Yankee booth and getting in line for Torre's job was a stronger career move.

[metirish]

I thought Mattingly was the manager in waiting,or is that just media boosting?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I'd say they're both among the many ladies in waiting.

[Guest patona314]

girardi as the 06 met manager and randolph as the 06 marlin manager... what do think the results would have been?

[metirish]

patona314 wrote: girardi as the 06 met manager and randolph as the 06 marlin manager... what do think the results would have been?

Well now come on,that's impossible to even speculate on.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Here's my guess: The Mets win the NL East, the Marlins don't.

[Guest Edgy DC]

metirish wrote: I thought Mattingly was the manager in waiting,or is that just media boosting?

I'm not saying that it's a one-person line.

But being in house, having coached under Torre, and coming off a Manager of the Year season is a pretty good position to be in.

[metirish]

Yeah,it should be interesting year for them, of course if they win it all then Torre stays...will be interesting to see if Girardi is critical of the team when it warrents it....

[Vic Sage]

its about expectations.

everybody picked the Mets to challenge for the division this year, and they were amongst the favorites to win the NL pennant. They actually fell one game short of most expectations, despite their huge payroll.

Whereas the Marlins were expected to lose 100 games, relying heavily on many unheralded rookies, with the lowest payroll in baseball. That they played around .500 ball and were actually in the race for the WC fairly deep into the season set Girardi up to win the award. His getting fired after just 1 season actually added to his aura as a tough maverick.

That being said, and my initial dislike for Willie's hiring (i was stumping for Leyland) and his game management style aside, Willie's team had a +6 above the W-L projection based on pythagorean projections, while Girardi was -2. Meaning Willie got a good team to win 6 more games than an analysis of their runs scored and runs allowed indicate, and Girardi lost 2 more games than his team should have, given their runs and runs allowed.

Not that that's the only basis for picking a MOY, or even a good basis, but i don't think payroll or pre-season expectations by the media (which can simply be wrong) is any kind of basis at all.

[seawolf17]

I agree with Vic (I think).

I had much higher expectations for Florida than most; I thought they had very good young pitching, and some guys who were ready to pop at the plate. Combine that with the fact that they were playing with house money -- everyone expected them to lose 100, so they stayed loose all year (well, everyone except Scott Olsen), and played well. Credit them -- and I guess credit Girardi as well -- for keeping them up and ready to win every night.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The baseball-loving world is so far from consensus on what makes a manager good or bad, it's best not to get too worked up if the voters disagree with us.

[metirish]

Lou Piniella and Jim Fergosi thought Willie woz robbed...

] "You gotta be kiddin'!" said Piniella. "I thought Willie did an outstanding job this year. The Mets played hard all year and his starting rotation was in flux. Taking nothing away from Joe, who also did a real nice job down there in Miami, but if I had a vote, I'd have Willie first and Joe second."

] "How do you have a guy be manager of the year with a losing record?" said the equally flabbergasted Fregosi.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Fregosi is being kooky.

[metirish]

Yeah, he probably told Miami writers that Girardi desearved it.

[Elster88]

I kind of agree with Fregosi. Girardi took a team that was thought to be putrid and made them mediocre.

Ok, great, big deal. Didn't like 25 different teams win 80 games in the NL this year?

[Guest Edgy DC]

What he's implying is that any manager whose team loses more than it wins should be disqualified.

And I don't think that stands the test of logic.

[MFS62]

]"How do you have a guy be manager of the year with a losing record?" said the equally flabbergasted Fregosi.

He should know all about managers with a losing record.
He was one.
Combined w-l pct for teams he managed was .484.

Later

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Elster88 wrote: I kind of agree with Fregosi. Girardi took a team that was thought to be putrid and made them mediocre. Ok, great, big deal. Didn't like 25 different teams win 80 games in the NL this year?

Maybe the projections were wrong. Just because the pre-season prognositicators picked them to lose 100 games doesn't mean they were going to.

So does Girardi get credit for people misjudging his team's talent?

And I'm not slamming him. I just think Willie did a better job.

[Guest iramets]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Maybe the projections were wrong. Just because the pre-season prognositicators picked them to lose 100 games doesn't mean they were going to.

YEAH!! And just because those same prognosticators said Willlie's team looked strong didn't mean squat, either. Willie should get full credit for managing a weak, pathetic squad of losers deep into the playoffs.

A miracle! The skies part! How he ever did it, no one will ever know! Working with nothing, Willie got 97 victories! Who could have foreseeen that the Mets were a good team?

Or maybe you don't like that reasoning? Maybe you even felt that the Marlins were a weak squad with a low payroll and the Mets were quite the opposite? Maybe you're even one of those lameass prognosticators?

[metirish]

People were calling Steve Somers on the FAN last night suggesting racisim as the reason why Willie didn't win.