metsmarathon Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 wow. every line in there should be followed by a "ba-dum bum"or more correctly, "wokka wokka"i liked wally much better during his brief tenure as a radio host than as a print journalist.
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Yeah,it seems not long ago he was writing articles about how Shea was a dump.....
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 ]And the city expects not a thing in return. According to the IBO, "There is little reason to expect a large gain in local economic activity [from the new ballpark] ... since most of the spending will replace spending that would have occurred at the existing stadium." While I share the cynicism of ballpark economic benefits, IBO is ignoring that there has been little in the way of opporunities to spend money in the vicinity of Shea, while I glean now that that is to change --- pushing out chop shops in favor of Fuddruckers.Not that I don't find the use of eminent domain for commercial development offensive as Hell. I do. I do now. Yes, I do.
soupcan Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Two articles from today's NYTimes not in the Sports section...From the Metro section...November 14, 2006NYCField of Honor Becomes Field of Dollars By CLYDE HABERMANWilliam A. Shea at the 1964 ceremony naming the Mets’ stadium for him. The Mets’ new stadium is to be called Citi Field.William Alfred Shea was off by a decade and a half.He once predicted that 15 minutes after he died, his name would be taken off the Queens stadium where the New York Mets play baseball. It took 15 years instead.But Mr. Shea got the big picture right. Nothing lasts forever, certainly not a name on the facade of a ballpark, certainly not when huge bucks are at stake and corporate egos need nourishing.For 42 years, the Mets’ home field has been called Shea Stadium. It is called that for a reason: to honor Mr. Shea, never mind that ever-shrinking numbers of the team’s fans have a clue who he was.Mr. Shea, who died in 1991 at 84, was a lawyer and a power broker. He, as much as anyone, brought National League baseball back to a bereft city after the Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Giants took a powder in 1957. The New York Metropolitan Baseball Club Inc. came into being in 1961. When it moved into a new home of its own in 1964, it made sense to many to name the home Shea Stadium. It was an honor in the dictionary definition of the word: high regard or great respect. It is an honor that has now become a casualty of modern business. Yesterday, the Mets made it official that their new playground, rising next to the old one in Flushing Meadows, will not be called Shea Stadium. The new name is Citi Field, in obeisance to Citigroup, the banking titan.Citigroup has entered into a 20-year partnership with the ball club and, news reports have it, will give the team $20 million a year. That is a fair-size chunk of change (even if it would not fully cover the annual salary of New York’s highest-paid ballplayer, Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees, who proves every October that he could not hit water if he fell off a pier).In exchange for its millions, Citigroup receives naming rights. Naming rights are not to be confused with honor. Honor is something bestowed upon you. It is not something that you can insist is your due. A company name spread above the front door on demand is a billboard.To appreciate the concept of honor, you need look no farther than across the elevated tracks of the No. 7 train running alongside Shea Stadium. On the other side of the tracks lie a tennis center named for Billie Jean King and stadiums bearing the names of Arthur Ashe and Louis Armstrong. In that way, those giants of sports and music are honored. They did not pay for the privilege.Putting up money without receiving a billboard in return is an alien concept in corporate America today. You don’t like it? Well, get real, said Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who used to run an information services company that he named for himself.“The real world is that you have to have a naming opportunity and sell it for a lot of money if you can afford a stadium in this day and age,” the mayor said yesterday after a ceremonial groundbreaking for Citi Field. Fred Wilpon, the Mets’ principal owner, made a similar point. “It is imperative that we receive revenues,” he said.None of the 10 people who spoke yesterday, mostly politicians and business executives, mentioned William Shea in their prepared remarks. Only after reporters asked later about the name change did Mr. Wilpon allow that “we will honor Bill Shea somewhere in this stadium.”Where, exactly? Who knows? But Shea family members take Mr. Wilpon at his word. They also accept the loss of their name with equanimity.If Citigroup money helps the team, then “it’s absolutely fantastic,” said Kathy Shea Anfuso, a daughter of William Shea. Much the same was said by a grandson, F. Scott Shea. As for the fading of the family name, so be it. “How can you be grumpy about something that’s been so fabulous for 40 years, 45 years?” Ms. Anfuso, who lives in Portland, Ore., said by phone. Scott Shea, a real estate lawyer in Los Angeles, was less than thrilled with the name Citi Field. Sounds “like an abandoned dump site out by the airport,” he said in a telephone interview. But he added, “having said that, I truly don’t believe the name on the door or the facade really matters that much; it’s what’s inside the walls of the new ballpark that counts.”The Mets are betting that fans will feel the same way in time, despite some inevitable grumbling now. That seems a safe bet. All that most fans want is a winning team. But it does not mean they can’t tell the difference between an honor and a billboard.E-mail: haberman@nytimes.comFrom the Business section...November 14, 2006AdvertisingThe Mets’ New Marquee Name By STUART ELLIOTTOne rendering of the Mets’ new stadium, Citi Field, has no trace of Citigroup’s present umbrella logo.Experts in the realms of sports marketing, corporate identity and brand building are offering sharply divergent views of the value of the huge deal that will name the new ballpark of the New York Mets for Citigroup.The agreement, announced formally yesterday, will label the Mets’ new stadium, scheduled to open in spring 2009, Citi Field. The current ballpark, Shea Stadium, is named after William A. Shea, a lawyer who helped bring National League baseball back to New York after the Dodgers and Giants left for the West Coast.To designate the new stadium Citi Field, Citigroup is agreeing to pay more than $20 million a year for at least 20 years, published reports estimate, making the deal the most lucrative one in the United States for what is known as naming rights. The experts, however, raised questions about whether New York baseball fans, famous — or notorious, depending upon your point of view — for their feisty opinions, will welcome a sponsored name or spurn it, complaining, “Shea it ain’t so!”Although corporate names have been familiar features of the sports landscape around the country, the Mets are becoming the first major team in New York in the big four sports (baseball, basketball, football, hockey) to name its home after a marketer.“There are definite dangers,” said Andy Sernovitz, chief executive of an organization called the Word of Mouth Marketing Association, which seeks to help advertisers understand how consumer chat about a brand or product can affect sales and reputation.“The risk of word-of-mouth backlash, especially among die-hard loyals, is significant,” Mr. Sernovitz said, noting the novelty of the corporate naming for the New York sports market and the fact that “there are such historic, personal feelings about Shea Stadium and the name.”“If it’s ‘The Man has bought your stadium,’ it’s hard to get warm feelings out of that,” Mr. Sernovitz said. He added that he would recommend that Citigroup offset that by trying to “show some respect” and that it acknowledge the potential pitfalls of the naming.Among the steps that Mr. Sernovitz suggested Citigroup should consider were “a ceremony inviting people to say goodbye to Shea” and “taking the old sign on tour, bringing it to Times Square” and other public gathering places.Robert K. Passikoff, president at Brand Keys, a brand and customer loyalty research company in New York, also pointed out that “hard-core fans, whether it’s New York or San Diego, resent stadiums changing their names,” because “they feel it adulterates what they see as pure and clean and all-American” about baseball.“You’ll have a portion of the consumer base that is going to be resentful,” Mr. Passikoff warned.The Mets have played in Shea Stadium since 1964. Before that, they played for two seasons in the Polo Grounds, the former home of the New York Giants, while waiting for Shea to be completed.The owners of the Mets, the Wilpon family, are replacing Shea with the new ballpark, being built next to Shea in Flushing, Queens, partly because of complaints that Shea is outdated.“Mets fans, as much as they complain about Shea, have grown attached to the name,” said Jim Andrews, editorial director of IEG Sponsorship Report, a newsletter published in Chicago. So “there certainly will be some backlash” against Citi Field, he added.A discussion about the name change on a sports blog, DeadSpin (deadspin.com), reflected divided opinions among fans.While several attacked the new name, not all the DeadSpin readers were upset, judging by some of their comments.“I could care less about the name as long as the stadium has good sightlines,” wrote a reader who posted under the name Critic. “And beer.”Another reader, posting under the name Brad Lee, joked that “the new musical theme for the Mets is ‘We Built This Citi.’ ” Similarly, some experts said they saw positive aspects to the arrival of Citi Field onto the New York sports scene.“Because it’s New York, and because Citigroup is such an enormous business in the New York area, it’s a perfect marriage for the New York Mets,” said David Bialek, president at the ANC Sports Marketing division of ANC Sports Enterprises in Purchase, N.Y.As for the novelty of an advertiser’s name getting top billing in New York, “I think fans are accustomed to this type of commercialization,” Mr. Bialek said. “There no longer exists the anger or animosity that existed when these deals first began.”In fact, “I would suggest Mets fans would look at the size of the deal with pride: ‘The Mets are deserving of $20 million a year,’ ” Mr. Bialek said.John Fraser, executive vice president at Element 79 Sports in Chicago, part of the Element 79 agency owned by the Omnicom Group, said the fact that the marketer’s name was being affixed to a new field may ameliorate any hard feelings about the disappearance of the Shea Stadium name.“It’s easier to get fans and media to use a name if it’s a new entity,” Mr. Fraser said, adding, “If you’re lucky, you can get a cool nickname like the Cell or the Bob.”His references were to the diminutives that developed over time for the ballparks of two other baseball teams: U.S. Cellular Field in Chicago, home of the White Sox, and Bank One Ballpark, home of the Arizona Diamondbacks (now Chase Field because J. P. Morgan Chase acquired Bank One). Bob Dorfman, executive vice president and creative director at Pickett Advertising in San Francisco, who tracks the value of professional athletes as endorsers, said: “Ten years ago, it was, ‘You’re destroying the purity of the game.’ Now, they say, ‘We can afford more money to buy a better team.’ ”“Certainly there will be die-hard Mets fans who will be up in arms” about the corporate name, he said, “but it would be more of a big deal if it were the Yankees.”(For the record, the New York Yankees, also building a stadium to open in 2009, say they plan to reuse the Yankee Stadium name.)At a news conference yesterday at Shea Stadium, Lewis B. Kaden, chief administrative officer at Citigroup, said the relationship with the Mets would extend beyond naming rights to other initiatives. He suggested that Citigroup might take advantage of the Mets’ popularity in Latin America and Japan, where Citigroup has bank branches and issues credit cards.Steven J. Freiberg, co-chairman of the Citigroup global consumer group, said the company could also use Citi Field as a showcase for new technologies like contactless payments, which enable shoppers to buy merchandise using specialized bank cards or payment tags.(Anything to reduce the length of the beer lines.)The naming deal comes as Citigroup is doing a lengthy review of its companywide brand strategy, looking at ways to unify its image; the review includes the well-known umbrella logo. Some posters depicting Citi Field at the news conference were missing the umbrella; others showed a red curve over the “Citi” part of “Citi Field.”No decision about the future of the umbrella has been made, Mr. Freiberg said.Eric Dash contributed reporting.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 The more you think about it, the more unique the name Shea is, as Bill was neither a public icon nor a majority owner.
Benjamin Grimm Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 And I'm glad that Shea Stadium will end its days with its original name, unlike Riverfront, and Candlestick, and SkyDome, etc.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 And it'd've been nice if the 'Pons had a better answer prepared for this inevitable question than that Shea would be honored in "some way."
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 We even have A-Rod bashing in the first article....
Benjamin Grimm Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 This would make a nice statue:Just don't place it on the Sandy Koufax Mound. Then it would get in the way of the game.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 "... the Mets are becoming the first major team in New York in the big four sports (baseball, basketball, football, hockey) to name its home after a marketer."At least they are if we choose to ignore the Devils/Nets home of 'Continental Airlines Arena' for purposes of having the facts fit the pre-determined theory.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 metirish wrote:We even have A-Rod bashing in the first article....And, per usual, it's a gratuitous and unneccesary reference.I guess this guy's a non-sports writer who figures that using the ARod analogy makes him sound like what he thinks a regular jock writer is supposed to sound like.The NYTimes should be above that.
Guest Johnny Dickshot Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Clyde with a ridiculous and unfair potshot at Arod.I wondered about the logo too. Citibank used to have that severe, italicized ALL CAPS logo, which to me always communicated deathly seriousness of purpose and motion, then fattened it up to indicate it was a corporation and not just a bank. Then they got married to Travelers insurance and adopted a goofy/friendly thing with the umbrella. They also seemed to have first backed off 'bank' and then, 'corp' and prefer to be known just as 'citi' today, which I think sort of smells like 'We're not a bank, or a group, or an insurance company... we're just a thing. We're a global brand.'On a stadium, particularly one that's allegedly retro in design, it might be best to have used some version of the previous logo. You wonder if there's gonna be a registered trademark/servicemark kinda dealies all over the place too.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 "And that's the 14th CitiBlastTM of the year by Carlos Delgado!"
Willets Point Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 I find it sad that no one was in attendance for the 1964 ceremony.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 We put bunting on the façades and everything.
Guest iramets Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 But we took bunting off for Cliff Floyd.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Edgy DC wrote:"And that's the 14th CitiBlastTM of the year by Carlos Delgado!"Although lets not pretend that stuff like that is anything new.Commercialism is often considered crass in its day yet somehow becomes 'charming' over time. 'White Owl Wallops', 'Ballantine Blasts', and 'Hit Sign Win Suit' ads are frequently recalled fondly by NYC baseball fans of a particular age.
metsmarathon Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 help me out here...]Citigroup has entered into a 20-year partnership with the ball club and, news reports have it, will give the team $20 million a year. That is a fair-size chunk of change (even if it would not fully cover the annual salary of New York’s highest-paid ballplayer, Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees, who proves every October that he could not hit water if he fell off a pier).$20M x 20 = 400 > $25M * 10 = $250Mand while alex rodriguez might be the highest paid player in new york, he is not the player who gets paid the most by a new york baseball team. that honor belongs to derek jeter. But he too plays for the wrong team. why should we even care if our naming rights can pay for players on the yankees? on the mets, its pedro martinez, but his 2006 salary of just under $15M doesn't make for nearly as much fun.
nymr83 Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 edgy, are they in fact using eminent domain to kick the chop shops out? if so i'm with you a 100% i don't like it. after the foolish Kelo decision 17 states had amendments on the balloth is year to limit eminent domain to its traditional role of takings for public use (roads, hospitals, schools, fire houses, etc) i'm not sure how many of them passed. the Kelo case was a 5-4 decision and is one more conservative appointee away from being overturned (as it should be.) i pray for that day.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 I don't know how they're proceeding to take over Chop Shop City, but the city has stated an intention to, and the vendors clearly feel threatened that eminent domain will be invoked.Frayed Knot wrote:="Edgy DC"]"And that's the 14th CitiBlastTM of the year by Carlos Delgado!"Although lets not pretend that stuff like that is anything new.Commercialism is often considered crass in its day yet somehow becomes 'charming' over time. 'White Owl Wallops', 'Ballantine Blasts', and 'Hit Sign Win Suit' ads are frequently recalled fondly by NYC baseball fans of a particular age.Or the Schaefer Player of the Game.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 One of the logos Dickshot left out:
Guest Johnny Dickshot Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 So that's where the puckered butthole logo came from.I associate Citibank with having the area's first ATMs, though I don't know whether that is accurate or not.
Benjamin Grimm Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Are there ATM's at Shea? I've only been there a few times over the past several years, but I don't recall noticing any.They do have them at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia. And I'm sure Citi Field will have plenty of them too.
Frayed Knot Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 There are ATMs at Shea - and shirley there will be plenty at 'Citi'I recall CitiBank maybe not having the first ATMs but that they were the ones whose ATMs didn't initially work in conjunction with anyone else's. A card that worked w/their machines didn't work anywhere else and vers vica. I know some bank was tweaked that way early on in the ATM-era and I think it was them.
soupcan Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 -I think Johnny's right about Citibank being the pioneer in ATM-ing NYC. I recall that as well. And FK's recollection as those Citi ATMs not jibing with all the others is correct also.-Whenever I think of Frst National Bank, I think of Bugs Bunny.-Yes there are ATM's at Shea. Banco Poplular ATMs. Guess they'll be on their way out soon. I wonder if Citibank will start taking over as a presence starting as soon as next season. I suppose that depends on the length of the agreement with Popular.
Guest Edgy DC Guests Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 1812: Founded as City Bank of New York while there was a war going on. The first president was Samuel Osgood, who had been the U.S.'s first Postmaster General.1865: They joined the U.S.'s new national banking system and became The National City Bank of New York.1913: They became the first contributor to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.1914: Became the first U.S. national bank to open an overseas banking office when its branch in Buenos Aires was opened. my guess is that they opened there instead of London or Munich or something because the US auto industry was trying to secure rubber holdings down there. I'm probably wrong.1918: The International Banking Corporation (IBC), founded to establish overseas US banks. It became a wholly owned subsidiary and was subsequently merged into the bank.1919: They became the first U.S. bank to have $1 billion in assets.1955: Merges with First National Bank and becomes The First National City Bank of New York.1962: The Mets are born and the bank celebrates by shortening their name to First National City Bank.1965: Gets into the credit card business by buying Carte Blanche from Hilton Hotels.1968: Under US government pressure, they sell Carte Blanche. They create their own credit card --- "The Everything Card" -- promoted as the East Coast BankAmericard1969: The Mets win the World Series, and First National City Bank decided that the Everything Card was too costly to promote as an independent brand and joined Master Charge (now MasterCard), like everybody else.1976: Celebrates the bicentennial by shortening the namefurther to the Orwellian Citibank. Establishes Citicorp as a "one-bank holding company."Late 1970s: Citibank becomess one of the first U.S. banks to introduce automatic teller machines in the 1970s, in order to give 24-hour access to accounts.2001: Bought out Cal-Fed to finally get some juice going in California. Settled a $45 million class action lawsuit for improperly assessing late fees. Following this Citibank lobbied in Congress to pass legislation that would limit class action lawsuits to 5 million dollars unless they were initiated on a federal level. Some consumer advocate websites report that Citibank is still improperly assessing late fees.2004: Buy out First American Bank of Bryan, Texas, and get some juice in Texas.2006: The fuckers struck a deal with 7-Eleven to put its ATMs in over 5,500 convenience stores in the U.S.October 1, 2006: This is interesting, but I'm not sure why. A massive re-orginazation designed to streamline the various Citibank banking charters occured. Under the new structure, the following divisions were consolidated into Citibank, N.A.:Citibank, FSB Citibank (West), FSB Citibank, Texas, N.A. Citibank Delaware Citibank Banamex USA Citicorp Trust, N.A. (California) Citibank, Nevada, N.A. Citibank USA, N.A. Universal Financial Corp. Citibank South Dakota, FSB There are now only two Citibank banking divisions: Citibank, N.A. and Citibank South Dakota, N.A. (where there's some sort of tax shelter for banks that KC or someone can explain).
Benjamin Grimm Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 I thought Aaron Burr was involved with the founding of CitiBank, but maybe that was Chase Manhattan.
metirish Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 From it's site....]The bank has been operating in Ireland for over 40 years and is the largest foreign bank in Ireland by employee number.
nymr83 Old-Timey Member Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 ]1914: Became the first U.S. national bank to open an overseas banking office when its branch in Buenos Aires was opened. my guess is that they opened there instead of London or Munich or something because the US auto industry was trying to secure rubber holdings down there. I'm probably wrong. or they saw the clouds of war building in europe?
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