Reggie Jackson - a beloved Yankee?

[Guest Edgy DC]

You shouldn't take too much from the sim scores. For one, they're exclusively offense. You score higher if you play the same position as a player, but that has nothing to do with how well you played it. For two, they don't adjust for league and era context. For three, a guy being on your list doesn't clarify at all whether he was "similar, but better," or "similar but lesser."

And McCarver had a Hell of a career. I'm not going to push him for the Hall of Fame, but they could do and and have done a lot worse.

Sim scores are a toy.

I'm not going to make an argument for him for the Hall of Fame. Almost all Hall arguments are a waste of time, but I think similarity scores --- at least the ones at bb-r.com --- are a bad starting point.

[stevejrogers]

Word! I am awaiting the day MFY fans make the argument that Jorge Posada belongs in the Hall based on being better overall than Thurman Munson! Actually check that, I've been starting to hear such arguments made!

[metirish]

The only Hall Posada will get to is the lunch hall.

[Guest KC]

Well, I don't really need a lecture on SIM's ... but thanks, Edge.

I think I even said I only use it when it works for me but whatever.

[Frayed Knot]

To sum up:

- While there will always be those on both sides of the fence, Reggie was very UNpopular with large segments of Yanqui fans during his first season in NYC for all the predictable reasons: clashes w/Billy & Thurman, big contract, big mouth, didn't hit immediately

- The inevitable pickup in his hitting and then particularly the 3 HR WS game went a long way towards changing that. There will always be some who never warm to a controversial figure like him (Francesa claims to have never been a fan) but his 2nd-4th year in pinstripes were very good as was his rep for hitting "in the clutch". In short, he became what fans thought he'd be ... it just took a while. (see Piazza, M.)

- He slumped in the final (5th) year of his contract and the Yanx decided not to bring him back. George later blamed bad advice from his always mysterious "baseball people" in order to deflect bad pub from himself as that decision backfired and Reggie had a bounce-back year w/Anaheim. That, and the fact that his "replacement" Winfield never really became a NYY fave (this time Mattingly was the entrenched fair-haired boy) made Reggie even more popular in retrospect.

- Fans in NY think of Reggie as a Yankee even though he spent about 1/4 of his career here because ... well because they're in New York. Most fans are provincial that way and Yanqui fans particularly so since they tend to view other MLB teams as merely conduits to deliver them players.

- The press LOVED Reggie because he filled up their notebooks. He was all feast or famine the way Strawberry often was but Reggie enjoyed talking more and had a better vocabulary.

- Munson was extremely popular with MFY fans of that era for the reasons mentioned here; old-skool, tough-guy, home-grown, everyman looking straight talker (he could also be a bit of a cantankerous bigot but that rarely got out at the time).

- Why Billy Martin was a loved as he was always escaped me. I know he was an old-time Yankee and all, and fans seem to naturally gravitate towards small-ball strategy skippers even when it makes no sense. But, while I don't want to speak bad of the dead, if there's someone you had to pick in advance to wind up dead in a ditch on the side of the road due to a drunk driving accident while his young bride (5th wife btw) sat at home alone on Christmas Day ... it would have been Billy.

[Guest KC]

Oh, and Munce and Timmy will never (and shouldn't) even sniff the Hall.

[Frayed Knot]

Some NYY fans have a tendancy to credit Munson for the years he would have had had his career (and life) not ended so tragically - and then judge his H-o-F credentials with the tacked-on career numbers those years would have provided.

But, of course, you can't do that for so many reasons, not the least of which is that Thurman was already sliding downhill offensively and had wrecked knees to the point where his catching days were likely over anyway.

[Guest Edgy DC]

KC wrote: Well, I don't really need a lecture on SIM's ... but thanks, Edge. I think I even said I only use it when it works for me but whatever.

Yeah, I was more replying to the Bruce Botche argument. But now I don't see him appearing on Munson's profile anyhow.

[stevejrogers]

="Frayed Knot"]Some NYY fans have a tendancy to credit Munson for the years he would have had had his career (and life) not ended so tragically - and then judge his H-o-F credentials with the tacked-on career numbers those years would have provided. But, of course, you can't do that for so many reasons, not the least of which is that Thurman was already sliding downhill offensively and had wrecked knees to the point where his catching days were likely over anyway.

Don't forget the usual Yankee HOF credential of "Well look how many rings he has" as well as his MVP and ASG apperances

I have a feeling there are still lingering resentments of those who put Johnny Bench over Thurman Munson as well!

I think I can sum up the Martin fandom with the fact that they had "Man On The Street" interviews with fans on the Martin tribute video and one featured a man with an eye bandage saying he loved how Billy was a fighter and said that made Billy the same as one of them, cause as you could see he (the fan) was also a fighter

Same reason MFY fans always loved David Wells and never truely took to Roger Clemens (his un-retiring should kill any chance of him having anything warmer than a tempid "Yeah you were an all time great player" response at Yanqui Stadium ever again)

[Guest Edgy DC]

A guy retires and makes the Hall of Fame, I can't see the Yankees or their supporters failing to underscore his tenure with them as the defining part of his career.

The guy at one point threatened to boycott his own Hall of Fame ceremony if his image didn't have a Yankee cap.

[Theoldmole]

During the Reggie era (and this was the only time in my life) I actually kinda liked the Yankees. I was at the World Series game in 1977 when Reggie hit the three home runs, and the place was wild with love.

Don't forget Mike was booed a few times when he first came to the Mets, too.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: A guy retires and makes the Hall of Fame, I can't see the Yankees or their supporters failing to underscore his tenure with them as the defining part of his career. The guy at one point threatened to boycott his own Hall of Fame ceremony if his image didn't have a Yankee cap.

I'm not so sure about that though. I'll give you that with Dave Winfield, but time will tell.

I think the way he left still has something to do with it, Yankee cap or not.

I don't think MFY fans or supporters will be clamoring for the Yankee logo on Rickey Henderson's cap!

[Guest cooby]

]I don't think MFY fans or supporters will be clamoring for the Yankee logo on Rickey Henderson's cap!

I don't see why not. The stolen base record is quite a little nugget

[MFS62]

How can the Yankee fans not love him?
After all, he has those rings....

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Reggie Jackson was accused of jaking it, and eventually became a True Yankee.

Mickey Rivers was accused of jaking it, and eventually (despite being nothing like a Hall-of-Famer) became a True Yankee.

I can't see why that logic wouldn't apply to Rickey Henderson, whose career was arguably superior to both of those put together.

�Ugly buildings, politicians, and whores all get to be respectable if they stick around long enough,� said Noah Cross, John Huston's character in Chinatown. I don't see any reason that shouldn't apply to Yankees as well.

(Dirty secret: It isn't just the Yankees who whitewash the sins of tarnished old stars.)

[Willets Point]

Evidence points to Ted Williams getting much more love in retirement that in his playing days in Boston.

[stevejrogers]

Very true, especially from the Knights In The Pressbox

[Valadius]

Rickey Henderson is going in as an A.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

He should.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Valadius wrote: Rickey Henderson is going in as an A.

That's not really my point. And I don't think a particular insignia on one's hat means he's "going in as" that player. That snapshot does not re-define the entirety of the career.

My point is that the Yankees would take the association with his legacy, if they could. And if the time comes to salute the 1985 Yankees, Rickey and Winfield will be numbers two and three in the program. And any other associations they can do with the "best leadoff hitter ever," they'll likely do. He scored 146 freaking runs with them in 1985.

[Willets Point]

I think Rickey should go in as Rickey. With a big "Rickey 24" on his hat.

Seriously.

[Gwreck]

Paul LoDuca introducing Omar Minaya to his father.

http://pickmeup.mlblogs.com/pick_me_up_some_mets/2006/09/did_you_catch_t.html

[Guest Edgy DC]

For years, Izzy Duncan has dreamed of becoming New York's hottest art dealer. Now finally, her goal lies just within reach. As the director of the Emerson Bond Gallery, Izzy's expecting a whopping promotion--one she wants so badly, she's almost afraid to hope for it.

Then Emerson Bond drops dead.

Suddenly, Izzy's fabulously huggable boss Freddie, the adorable punk receptionist Kimmy, and devoted, well-meaning Izzy herself might all be out of a job.

The timing couldn't be worse. Izzy's childhood nemesis has a wedding coming up--and there's no getting out of it. And Jamie, Izzy's best guy friend, finds his greatest success as a newspaper columnist by advising all of New York to revive the age-old ritual of the pick-up line-which seems to work for everyone in the city except Izzy.

Izzy's happiness and professional future now lie in the hands of two men: one, the new insufferable star artist, who can't wait for any chance he gets to taunt Izzy mercilessly, but whose show will be her most crucial yet. And the other? The other is the new blood at the Bond Gallery, Avery Devon--the man so gorgeous, she can't even speak to him. The man who,

if she's really, really lucky, will teach her all about the art of love...and not just in her dreams.