Rico Brogna, Good Fit (Cont.)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I tried twice to split the "Where Have You Gone" thread into ex-Mets in retirement and ex-Mets continuing their careers, but it takes so long and the board returns an error when I choose all the posts to split off and submit the split command, so I'm going to let that thread slip into the sunset and start two new threads. This 'un is for retirees and the other will be for active exies.

Watching the kids

By Chuck Carree

Staff Writer

chuck.carree@starnewsonline.com

Howard Johnson and Bill Gullickson's Major League Baseball careers mirrored each other. During their 14 seasons, they faced each other numerous times with mixed results.

The former rivals are in Wilmington this week to see their sons in the annual East Coast Professional Baseball Showcase at Brooks Field.

Craig Gullickson, like his father, is a pitcher, but isn't scheduled to pitch for the Reds until Thursday. Unlike his right-handed dad, Craig's a left-hander. Glen, Johnson's son, is a switch-hitting infielder, just like his father.

Neither of the elders Gullickson or Johnson remember how many times they faced other, but Johnson remembers Gullickson, a fastball-curve ball pitcher, as tough to hit.

"I might have gotten him once or twice,'' Johnson said. "I just remember him being out there sweating so much. I knew he was out there working hard. So I told myself, 'I'd better be sharp during this at-bat.' He was a great competitor.''

Gullickson remembers Johnson as a superb low ball hitter.

"If you made a mistake to him, he didn't miss it,'' Gullickson said.

Gullickson has passed his expertise, especially proper mechanics, along to Craig.

"The result I don't care about,'' Gullickson said. "It is his mechanics and attitude on the mound I look at.''

Craig, who has verbally committed to Clemson, was born in Tokyo, while Gullickson played two seasons in Japan after being locked out of a job in the majors because of collusion - an attempt by the owners to lower free-agent salaries.

"I was with the Yankees and nobody came after me,'' he said. "I was 27 years old with more than 100 wins in the big leagues.''

A few years after Gullickson returned to the big leagues in 1990, he said Craig was more interested in chasing foul balls than watching games.

"Whenever I could, I'd take him into the clubhouse to familiarize him with the game,'' Gullickson said.

Johnson has a similar relationship with Glen, who started at third base Tuesday for the Reds against the Indians

"He and I are very close,'' Johnson said. "He's been with me pretty much since he was six or seven years old. My last year playing with the Cubs, he was on the field quite a bit then.

"He's matured now and getting to be his own guy on the field. He does his own thing. I feel very comfortable when I have to leave him.''

Glen's a natural right-handed hitter who has worked diligently from the left side for several years.

"He's a nice player,'' Johnson said. "He plays shortstop and can play third. He could probably play a little second here and there. He has a strong arm and loves to play the game. He's a field leader. I'm happy he's picked that up. Just being around the game his whole life, so many things come to him so naturally.''

Glen Johnson vague remembers following his father around the major leagues. Johnson occasionally pulls out the videos as a refresher.

Howard Johnson is batting coach for the Mets' Triple A Tidewater club. Before that, he was a scout and during summer Glen tagged along.

Glen's a student of the game, often querying professional players for self improvement.

"It's helped him gain the confidence and instincts that are necessary to play at a higher level,'' Johnson said.

The Tides allowed him three days to watch Glen play. Gullickson goes to his children's games all over the country. Two of his daughters are tennis players - one a professional.

Johnson, meanwhile, played in two all-star games and won two World Series - one with the Detroit Tigers in 1984 and the other with the Mets in 1986, a team that will be honored in two weeks with a series of events.

"The '86 ballclub was unbelievable,'' Johnson said. "Glen wasn't even born yet, but he's well aware of the '86 Mets' legacy.''

Chuck Carree: 343-2262

chuck.carree@starnewsonline.com

[stevejrogers]

BTW, where did the Rico as a good fit come out of? Was he rumored to be hired by the Mets org at some point?

[Willets Point]

History of a good fit:

Part 1 (EZBoard, watch for popups)
Part 2
Part 3 (Rico gets no love in the title)
Part 4 (Still no love for Rico)

[Guest Edgy DC]

The first post in the thread was a story of Rico taking a job as a football coach. The athletic director who hired him described him as a "good fit."

[Willets Point]

SteveJRogers wrote: BTW, where did the Rico as a good fit come out of? Was he rumored to be hired by the Mets org at some point?

Steve, here's the story that started the whole thing.

[metirish]

Nothing new here from Klapisch on Gooden.

Gooden not doing good

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Randy Jones: Spokesman, TV fisherman, BBQ sauce purveyor.

http://randyjonesbb.com/index.html

[Guest cooby]

metirish wrote: Nothing new here from Klapisch on Gooden. Gooden not doing good

My god, that's sad

[metirish]

Yeah it realy is sad, I never had the pleasure of seeing Gooden pitch for the Mets ,I wish I could have seen his Cy Young season.

[Elster88]

Fuck him. After what he did to me I don't feel sorry for him. The hopes and dreams I had for that guy. He betrayed me.

[Guest cooby]

You know Doc Gooden???

[seawolf17]

Elster is Doc Gooden. (At least right now.)

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Elster88 wrote: Fuck him. After what he did to me I don't feel sorry for him. The hopes and dreams I had for that guy. He betrayed me.

Elster & SK similarity score = really high.

[Guest cooby]

I would like you people to explain to me why a man who would choose seven months of incarceration rather than be a free man, because he can't trust himself not to use drugs, is a "personal thing" to some of you.

Because he ruined YOUR Mets teams 20 years ago? News alert. They are MY Mets team too, and I've moved on. I suggest you do too.



1) He does not know you exist. He did not do it to hurt little old you.

2) Do you think he wants this life?

3) Do you have such hatred for all people who can't control their actions?

4) Would you rather he had just kept playing all those years ago and not sought help? Maybe then the Mets wouldn't have fallen out of glory.


This 20 year old grudge people seem to have against Doc and Darryl for ruining THEIR lives (oh, come on) is a personal pet peeve of mine.

[metirish]

Very well said Cooby, Gooden has a problem and I can't hate him for that.

[Guest cooby]

Well "Boo-hoo-hoo, he ruined EVERYTHING" is just horseshit and I'm getting sick of hearing it from people who have no idea of what it is like to suffer.

[Guest cooby]

Well "Boo-hoo-hoo, he ruined EVERYTHING" is just horseshit and I'm getting sick of hearing it from people who have no idea of what it is like to suffer.

[stevejrogers]

cooby wrote: I would like you people to explain to me why a man who would choose seven months of incarceration rather than be a free man, because he can't trust himself not to use drugs, is a "personal thing" to some of you. Because he ruined YOUR Mets teams 20 years ago? News alert. They are MY Mets team too, and I've moved on. I suggest you do too. 1) He does not know you exist. He did not do it to hurt little old you.

True, but to many fans they've come to consider the players who play for the teams they root for as part of a family to them. Sure its purely one way and all, but that connection is there. Which is why so many fans of a certain team will travel accross the country to a small lake side hamlet in Upstate, NY in the middle of the summer just to see their guy inducted into the Hall of Fame.

All those San Diegoians next year for example, are going to travel from San Diego to Cooperstown to see Tony Gwynn. He probably doesn't know 99.99% of them that will be there the last weekend of July 2007, but they will be there because they feel an unbreakable bond with this player, I'm sure the great majority will have a "proud parent" like feeling if they can say they saw it all from Tony's debut in in 1982 till his final game in 2001.

And that goes the same when a player you watched "grow up" as a member of your ballclub completely crash and burn as a human being off the field with whatever vice. It will break your heart, especially considering there is nothing you can actually ever do about it. And I can see Elster's and SK's points about not having an ounce of pity for Gooden because of how Doc had always seemed to have "turned a corner" only to hit a whole new level of rock bottom-ness

And yes I know substance abuse is an ongoing battle, but if family members and friends of an addict (leaving Gooden aside) can have a breaking point where they can just give up and say "fuck you, ruin your own life I don't give a damn anymore" then why can't a fan of said player feel the same way (leaving the fact that he played as a MFY aside of course) and toss the person to the curb because he dissapointed him or her one too many times.

]2) Do you think he wants this life? 3) Do you have such hatred for all people who can't control their actions?

I'm sure its tied into the detachment of the situation, but again there are plenty of times where addicts find yet another rock bottom to sink to and even friends and family turn away at that point.

]4) Would you rather he had just kept playing all those years ago and not sought help? Maybe then the Mets wouldn't have fallen out of glory.

I'm not sure where you are going here. Gooden sought help, in 1987 and probably other times as well. It twas arm problems that eventually ended his career as both an star and finally a major leaguer, not substance abuse. You aren't suggesting that the Mets should have kept Gooden's problems underwraps are you?

]This 20 year old grudge people seem to have against Doc and Darryl for ruining THEIR lives (oh, come on) is a personal pet peeve of mine.

I don't think thats what Elster and SK are going in their virtiol against Doc and Darryl. Yes what they did was ruin the chance for the Mets to have someone akin to a Sandy Koufax and a Ted Williams on their all-time roster, but I don't think anyone is blaming the failings of two Met players for anything but further enjoyment gotten out of their favorite baseball team.

[Guest cooby]

And 20 years later, they still remember one guy's failing? Uh-huh. They make it sound way more personal than enjoying their team.

[stevejrogers]

="cooby"]And 20 years later, they still remember one guy's failing? Uh-huh. They make it sound way more personal than enjoying their team.

But it wasn't just the one thing with Doc. Yeah if the test he failed and got suspended for was because of a first time "Hey what harm could it do" party thing (though that clearly wasn't the case) and it never happened again with Doc being clean and sober ever since then yeah, you have a point.

But it was a constant thing with Doc, for the rest of his life he's been bottoming out, and bottoming out to the point where yeah, it does go way beyond enjoying their team when thinking about him.

The Howes, Strawberrys, Goodens of the world become more and more a punchline with each bottoming out, I think that is also a part of the personal hatred as well.

Granted should we really care if another team's fan innocently says "We got Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Frank Robinson, who do you have, Ed Kranepool? Mookie Wilson?" No, we are secure as fans in who has been on the Mets, and can take it when a fan suggests "How can you root for So-and-So that (insert anything from rapist, to self-pleasuring imature jerk, to racist to druggie to drunk, to just a plain old creep, and so on)"

But there is a breaking point, I don't know where it was for Elster or SK but there was one and they got sick of hearing that particular punchline about Dwight Gooden and got tired of defending him. Got tired of reading and hearing all the "Now he has his life back together" stories, got tired of the ensuing bottoming out again stories, ect.

Again I know you never do conquer your demons. Vice will always be creeping back, sometimes when you least expect it, but I can completely understand someone detached from the situation saying "Fuck off, ruin your own life, I'm done with you"

[Guest Edgy DC]

I do have family members who have ruined their life. And I have come to the point where it's best I have nothing to do with them anymore.

But I don't think of them as dead, nor do I think their struggles and failures have anything to do with me. It certainly can feel hateful when I'm in the room with them, and they may even sometimes blame me, but it's not like they suddenly get it together when I'm out of the situation. I don't hate them, and I don't take it personally. I did as a child, but now I'm not one, so I make it a point to tell the children in the family it's not personal.

It's hard. But I've also been fortunate to see miracles happen with addicts I had given up on.

[Guest cooby]

And I will never stop pulling for miracles for Doc and Darryl.

And that's how I feel about them.

[Guest cooby]

Steve, you're a real sweet guy, and I appreciate what you are trying to say, but again, this is a personal gripe with me, this Doc and Darryl vilifying crap.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

I resent the choices that they made that ultimately led to their problems.

I resent the fact that their problems likely cost the Mets a dynasty full of championships.

I resent the fact that they deprived us of what should have been the beauty of two spectacular baseball playing careers in Mets uniforms.

cooby - I can understand and respect that you see this differently than how I do. But I feel that Gooden and Strawberry's choices cost the Mets dearly, and that defines how I feel about them.

[Elster88]

For the record, my post was written with 100% sarcasm content.

I thought people would have realized that from my previous posts on the subject of Doc, but then I'm always assuming people pay more attention to me than they really do, lol.

[Guest Iubitul]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I resent the choices that they made that ultimately led to their problems.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Before it became a disease, it was a choice. As Robin Williams said, "Cocaine is God's way of saying, 'You make too much money' "

One thing I have to add - I have no anger towards Darryl, but plenty towards Doc, and I'm still trying to figure out why.

[Guest cooby]

Well none of that exactly answers my question about how it caused you personal grief or loss, but I didn't really expect it to, because it didn't.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mookie's summer off:

’86 grounder forever rolls

Mookie Wilson always will be linked to Mets’ World Series victory, but his life moves on

By STEVE WISEMAN

swiseman@thestate.com

It’s the error that haunts New England.

Count Mookie Wilson among those responsible.

RICH GLICKSTEIN@RGLICKSTEIN@THESTATE.COM Mookie Wilson is one of several individuals who will take part in a symposium at Benedict College tonight. Baseball symposium Youth tournament

The former Spartanburg Methodist and University of South Carolina outfielder was the one, after all, who turned a two-ball, two-strike pitch from Boston Red Sox pitcher Bob Stanley into the ground ball that famously squirted through first baseman Bill Buckner’s legs.

Two decades later, even though he has been retired for 15 years and now lives in the Lower Richland County community of Eastover, Wilson says a day rarely passes that he does not relive the moment that helped the New York Mets become World Series champions in 1986.

“When I meet a casual person, that’s what they remember,” he says. “Then before we know it we’re talking about the Braves.”

Wilson is 50 years old. By his own choice, he does have a permanent baseball gig. He is plotting his next move while using this summer to partake in more laid-back endeavors, like spending time with his 81-year-old mother in Ehrhardt.

“I’m not at the ballpark from midday to midnight,” Wilson says.

That, however, is subject to change.

After playing 11 seasons in the big leagues, mostly with the Mets before finishing up with Toronto in 1991, Wilson jumped on the coaching track. He served as the Mets’ first-base coach from 1996-2002 before setting off to be a manager in the minor leagues.

In 2003 and 2004 he managed the Mets’ rookie-league team in Kingsport, Tenn. Last summer he returned to New York City to manage the Brooklyn Cyclones, the Mets short-season Class A team, to a 40-36 record.

Wilson harbors dreams of being a big-league manager, but he decided to put them on hold this summer.

“I had opportunities to manage again this year,” he says. “I thought it was better to take this time off. It seemed like a good time to do it.”

David Horton coached Wilson at Bamberg-Ehrhardt High School, when the two were part of a state championship team. Horton, who still lives in the Bamberg area, says he stays in touch with Wilson and hopes he gets his shot at managing again.

“He’s never changed,” Horton says. “He’s the same person he was when he was here in high school. He had a great personality back then and still has a great personality. He has the ability to get along with people. He doesn’t meet people that don’t get along with him.”

Until he returns to the dugout, Wilson has plenty of family to attend to.

He and his wife, Rosa, have four children. Two of his daughters, Ernestine and Adesnia Wilson, are students at Coastal Carolina. Another daughter, Latoshea Davis, is in the Navy stationed in California.

His stepson, Preston Wilson, plays outfield for the Houston Astros.

Unable to stay completely away from the game that made him famous, Mookie has traveled to see Preston play on several occasions this season. He also has made promotional appearances for the Mets as they celebrate the 20th anniversary of their last world championship. Wilson worked as a studio analyst for SportsNet New York, the Mets’ cable-television outlet, during a Mets-Red Sox interleague series in Boston in late June.

Renowned for his contributions to charitable organizations during and after his playing career, Wilson is lending a hand with a cause he cares dearly about in Columbia. Benedict College will be the site for tonight’s Bobby Bonds Memorial Symposium, which addresses the decline of black players in pro baseball.

According to a study published by the University of Central Florida’s Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport last July, the number of black players in the major leagues has plummeted from 25 percent in 1975 to 8.5 percent in 2005.

Wilson will join a panel that includes Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Commissioner William Lide, former Grambling baseball star and Houston Astros scout J.D. Elliby and Major League Baseball senior vice president Jimmie Lee Solomon.

Chris Murray, a sports columnist from the Philadelphia Tribune, also will attend, and Hall of Famer Joe Morgan will speak via a videotaped address.

“A lot of African-American ball players are not in baseball,” Wilson says. “No one really has an answer. But it is an issue. Baseball is part of the African-American heritage. African-Americans are a part of baseball, whether they want to admit it or not.

“I think it’s an issue that has to be addressed. I don’t think it’s going to be a quick fix. You have to start somewhere.”

The symposium coincides with the Inner City Classic youth baseball tournament, which features 22 teams competing in there divisions. Games begin today at four locations around Columbia, with the championship games set for Capital City Stadium on Sunday.

There’s always a chance one of kids playing this weekend might grow up to hit a ground ball that leads to a World Series title. Wilson would love to see it. But, he says, it won’t be possible unless baseball catches up with football and basketball in marketing to black athletes.

“Those sports are just being promoted better than baseball,” Wilson says. “That’s just the way it is. There are really no African-American baseball players that are being promoted. If you want to attract the African-American athletes, they have to see someone they can relate to.”

Even though most of today’s high school and college players were not born when Wilson played in the 1986 World Series, Wilson’s career makes him a role model. And someday he just might coach one of those players from a big-league dugout.

“I’d love to see him be a manager,” says Lon Joyce, a Spartanburg resident and former Spartanburg Methodist coach who is a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

“But he’s got to get back in the game and work. Mookie’s got good people skills. He’s got a personality that he can manage people and get along with people and get the best out of people.”

Reach Wiseman at (803) 771-8472.

[metirish]

Go meet some Mets greats here.

http://www.lastlicks.net/

[Guest cooby]

Who's the Wang guy?