Benson for El Duque

[Guest HappyRecap]

This is basically what we got...are you happy?

El Duque is shot and he is...36? Yeah, right.

Maybe the Mets dumped a problem on another team in the form of Julio but really it all boils down to getting rid of Kris Benson and his wife and now we have a washed-up pitcher taking the place of a 31-year old starter.

Nice job Omar.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Essentially, the same thread I was thinking of, in simplified form.

Would you rather have Benson than Hernandez now? I'd rather have Benson. He's the better starter, he's younger, he'd have been here all season (so no need for Lima, etc.)

Would you rather have Hernandez or Julio? Clearly Hernandez.

Would you rather have Wiggy than any of them? Perhaps the best course of all.


Basically, this is "Churn, churn, churn," with the Mets being in better shape before the churning process started, with perhaps the cheapest and best player in this trade tree being the one the started out with.

[Guest HappyRecap]

I guess we could drill it back to Wigginton (and Keppinger) but Benson at age 31 just seemed like he might settle in and be a solid starter.

we'll see....

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Benson is 6-3 in 10 starts this year for BAL. I think the Mets would swap Hernandez for him in a heartbeat, as if. Well, maybe not the Mets, but any sensible MLB team would...

Wiggy, in case you care, went 3-for-4 yesterday, with a HR and 4 RBIs. Even having cooled since Duan first bet me he wouldn;t have an OPS above .750 (he's in the .820 range today), Wiggy's now on track to hit 40 HRs and drive in 134 for 2006. He's also playing mostly 2b for TB these days, just where we need someone with a little pop in the bat, too.

[Gwreck]

Can't make the analysis without at least a prefunctory mention of the $$ saved. Or John Maiine, who apparently will still be a fairly good prospect when he comes off the DL.

I say the jury's still out on Wigginton, nevermind that when he was traded it was an excellent sell-high moment. Too early to say his early success this year disproves that.

[duan]

well we'll see where he ends up Sal
despite his current tear (5-11) his OPS for may is still below .700.

I think the most positive sign for wiggy is that he has had the big slump, started to hit again and his ops has started to go back up.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

He's had a very bad May, duan, no doubt about it.

But everyone goes through slumps. Not everyone has an April like Wiggy's. Right now he's one HR behind his career high. In May. With six days 'til June starts.

I'm not too worried. Career norms through the end of the season and I'll take this bet coasting. If he gets hot again, it could be over by July.

[Guest sharpie]

Well, Benson did give up 7 runs (6 earned) in 2 innings last night against the Mariners. He is a servicable major league pitcher, nothing more. Hernandez was pretty good last year til a mid-season injury and was very bad after that until he picked it up again in the postseason. He has a history of being a better warm weather pitcher. For the remainder of this season I might actually rather have Hernandez than Benson.

[metirish]

Because of his MFY predigree I am over the moon about this trade, he just knows how to win, like Willie amd like Cairo last season and Stanton and Weathers and every other MFY that has come to the Mets....I can't wait to read Klapisch, should be a real tear jerker on how Hernandez will bring the winning ways to Queens.

[soupcan]

metirish wrote: Because of his MFY predigree I am over the moon about this trade, he just knows how to win, like Willie amd like Cairo last season and Stanton and Weathers and every other MFY that has come to the Mets....I can't wait to read Klapisch, should be a real tear jerker on how Hernandez will bring the winning ways to Queens.

I used to like irish.

[metirish]

SC = 1000 from me....

[Centerfield]

Although I would rather have Benson than Hernandez, I am happy about this trade because I would rather have Hernandez than Julio. I have criticized the Mets about not realizing their mistake and cutting losses. Something it looks like they were willing to do here.

Benson for Julio was a mistake. Everyone can see that. But rather than keep throwing Julio out there hoping he'll get better and justify the trade, they sold high (or at least, they believe they sold high) and got a serviceable starter.

I like the deal.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Hate it.

Bret's right, in that, in a vaccum, I'd rather have Hernandez than Julio. Why? Because starting pitchers with a chance to be average are more valuable than relievers with a chance to be dominant.

And that's the cue for my standard "Heilman should be in the starting rotation, assholes" paragraph, which I'll spare y'all.

Anyway, this deal means we've effectively committed Heilman to the bullpen, which sucks.

I like Julio. In his last 16 appearances (all but his first 2), he's had a 3.65 ERA, 1.17 WHIP and a K/9 of 13.25.

That's pretty fucking dominant, and I think he'll be able to sustain close to that over the season.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Centerfield wrote: Although I would rather have Benson than Hernandez, I am happy about this trade because I would rather have Hernandez than Julio. I have criticized the Mets about not realizing their mistake and cutting losses. Something it looks like they were willing to do here. Benson for Julio was a mistake. Everyone can see that. But rather than keep throwing Julio out there hoping he'll get better and justify the trade, they sold high (or at least, they believe they sold high) and got a serviceable starter. I like the deal.

I would certainly enter this trade in evidence against the Mets' implacably stupid stubbornness.

It does, however, by that token make them look pretty foolish in their claim that dealing Benson would help by making them younger and cheaper and stronger in the bullpen, none of which Hernandez gives them over Benson. So all that bragging was pretty much meaningless bullshit.

Well, maybe a little cheaper.

[Centerfield]

I think the foolishness of that claim was demonstrated long before yesterday. By cutting their losses, they became slightly less foolish in my eyes.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]So all that bragging was pretty much meaningless bullshit.

Unless of course they were high on John Maine all the while.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Absolutely.

And by shaving a little more frequently, Randy Johnson could make himself look slightly handsomer.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ]So all that bragging was pretty much meaningless bullshit. Unless of course they were high on John Maine all the while.

Ah, yes, the old "The books aren't closed until the last scrubinnee throw-in has retired" gambit.

[MFS62]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ]So all that bragging was pretty much meaningless bullshit. Unless of course they were high on John Maine all the while.

Right. And the Angels were high on Don Rose.

Later

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Sometimes I think (in my own conspiracist/paranoid nutjob manner of thinking, of course) that the real purpose of throw-ins is not to balance out uneven trades but to provide years, if not decades, of plausible deniability. Trading a throw-in for a much younger throw-in would of course extend the process ad infinitum, and no one would ever have to admit that any trade ever went sour--they'd all be "in progress."

[Centerfield]

That's an interesting theory. To take it one step further, you could make the argument that a trade can't fully be evaluated until you've taken into account the careers of any and all compensatory draft picks granted as a result of losing someone involved in the trade.

By that token, Roger Cedeno and Octavio Dotel for one year of Mike Hampton may or may not seem like a good trade, but Roger Cedeno and Octavio Dotel for one year of Mike Hampton and David Wright is clearly a winner for the Mets.

[Frayed Knot]

Maine had been one of Baltimore's better prospects.
If you're of the opinion that we should be trading higher-priced/prolly already maxed-out mediocrities for someone else's younger cheapies w/upside then Maine is precisely that type.

Ditto Nady

[Guest Hillbilly]

"When you look at it today, if you told me you'd get John Maine and El Duque for Kris Benson, I like that position I'm in right now," Minaya said.

[Elster88]

Hillbilly wrote: "When you look at it today, if you told me you'd get John Maine and El Duque for Kris Benson, I like that position I'm in right now," Minaya said.

That is incorrect unless Maine turns into something good.

[Centerfield]

Leadoff double. Let's bring him in this time.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Hillbilly wrote: "When you look at it today, if you told me you'd get John Maine and El Duque for Kris Benson, I like that position I'm in right now," Minaya said.

Not an accurate quote.

"I feel like such a useless tool," Mets GM Omar Minaya confessed at a press conference today, weeping uncontrollably into his hands. "I urinated away a quality rotation just to feed my ego and to cram the roster with mediocre Hispanic hacks. I don't know why I do these things. I'd like to blame it on the booze, but there was crack and whores and gay porn too, so I don't know where to start fixing my life, but I hope this is a way to me to begin living like a decent human being..."

[Elster88]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ="Hillbilly"]"When you look at it today, if you told me you'd get John Maine and El Duque for Kris Benson, I like that position I'm in right now," Minaya said. Not an accurate quote. "I feel like such a useless tool," Mets GM Omar Minaya confessed at a press conference today, weeping uncontrollably into his hands. "I urinated away a quality rotation just to feed my ego and to cram the roster with mediocre Hispanic hacks...

...and to get that annoying loudmouth with the huge titties out of town."

[nymr83]

I'd rather have Benson than Duque but thats not really the point. The Benson trade is over and done with, holding onto the guy you got for him just to avoid the comparisons to the guy you're getting now is foolish.

Just because you made a stupid move (A for doesn't mean you need to hold on to the guy you got back to cover your ass, if B for C makes sense NOW then do it, and don't worry about comparisons between C and A.

[Guest Hillbilly]

I C