Omar's failure

[Guest KC]

It's very difficult to respond to posts when you constantly change them.
Please, if you have something to add that significantly adds to or changes
the point you're trying to make can you please just add another post?

Thanks.

Re: actions speak louder than words, all I was going to say is, "yeah, they
do ... make up stuff and refuse to substantiate it" or whatever.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Okay, what does "We have traded Seo and Benson for relief pitchers and have not added any front-line starting pitchers to replace them" mean? Can I get a translation, please?

[Guest KC]

BS: >>>and now they're claiming that they dealt off starting pitchers because no one could possibly anticipate this problem<<<

The Mets are claiming what? We're gonna need some quotes.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ]Okay, what does "We have traded Seo and Benson for relief pitchers and have not added any front-line starting pitchers to replace them" mean? Can I get a translation, please?

[Guest old original jb]

OK, for the sake of progress can somebody just say "Uncle"?

Then we can get out the torches and pitchforks, get on the 7 Train and gather outside of Omar's office.

[Guest martin]

bret, the mets still have options. they tried some crappy ones, and they didnt work, so they move on. they are still in first place, so i dont feel like it is time to panic, especially with pelfrey and soler on the way.

i thought the seo trade was terrible, but now i think i was wrong because sanchez is great. the benson trade didnt bother me much though, because benson is a .500 pitcher. for a short term here there has been a shortage of starting options. but that is changing with soler on the way, pelfrey working on his stuff, bannister and maine rehabbing and heilman waiting his turn.

so there are two open spots at the back of the rotation. pretty soon there will be 5 relatively good options to fill them. i am not worried, definitely no more worried than i would expect any team to be who had two starters down with injury. we put lima out of the picture, and gonzales' days are probably numbered. everything seems fine to me.

[Guest KC]

2:12 pm comes before 3:14 pm, substantiate it or revoke it.

[Guest KC]

jb: >>>OK, for the sake of progress can somebody just say "Uncle"? <<<

No. Make stuff up, it will get pointed out from time to time. We've been civil,
I see no reason for anyone to complain.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

KC needs quotes. I never claimed to have quotes. I claimed that the Mets' actions speak for their comfort in dealing away Seo and Benson and getting no starting pitchers in return. He can ask me for quotes until he's purple in the face --he seems to like that--and I will keep insisting that this is a tacit admission of a failed policy decision. (Look up "tacit"--it's a good word. It means "saying, but not in so many words.")

martin's point is more interesting to me than continuing to go around around this bush with KC. "everything seems fine to me."

Me, I see disaster, and blood running like the sluices in an abbatoir. The Mets are a tendon's thickness away from a 90-loss season (that tendon being the one in Pedro's arm, of course)--the Mets have been extremely fortunate so far, it's true, but when your pitching staff consists of a lot of rookies (which I like but not for a competitive team this season) you're going to go through some serious growing pains. To go through growing pains with a 100-million dollar roster seems goofy, but I'm used to that by now.

Look at your choices, martin: you've got one spot being filled by a project (Soler) with good stuff who hasn't shown zip in MLB competition yet, or in AAA for that matter, another (Bannister) a project who's looked good briefly but who has made jams for himself that it remains to be seen if he has great skill or great luck in working his way out of, another project (Pelfrey) who projects to be good in a year or two but this year would be pushing it, and on and on. Don't get me wrong, I wish they'd give all these guys a chance and build a great rotation, but to count on all of them coming through NOW just because you've fucked up your rotation so you need them NOW? It's just not very realisitic, or very well planned.

[Guest KC]

I was just answering you, didn't mean much by it towards you for sure.

OE: This post was in response to another post that has bitten the cyber-dust.
Sorry for the confusion.

[Guest old original jb]

It's a sad day when people stop getting the old torches 'n pitchforks allusions.

[Guest KC]

Especially when I accidently delete them. See the RLF post entitled, "I
fucked up".

[Guest old original jb]

[Vic Sage]

1) trading mediocre SP for good setup guy = bad idea (though it has actually turned out OK, cuz Seo has sucked and Sanchez has been lights out)

2) subsequently trading another mediocre SPer for failed closer = really bad idea that was roundly criticized here, there and everywhere (though starting to be less disastrous, as Julio has pitched better and Benson continues to be mediocre)

3) trading SPers when the front of your rotation is old and fragile = bad idea made worse (still a bad idea!)

4) keeping a quality arm in the bullpen (to pitch 70+ IP) instead of 4th slot in rotation (to pitch 180+ IP) = bad idea (though Heilman has been invaluable in the pen)

5) Keeping Heilman in pen while promoting Lima and Gonzalez = bad idea made worse (still a bad idea)

6) promoting Soler, once he'd shown he could get hitters out = good idea (we'll see what he can do)

7) upon seeing how bad the market is for even a mediocre SPer is (duh! Omar doesn't have Omar as a trading partner!), he may turn toward getting another RPer and moving Heilman to rotation = very good idea (depending on what he gives up for RPer)

8) Pedro / Glavine / trax / Heilman / Soler-Bannister = good enough

[Guest Rotblatt]

I like the idea of bringing in a relief pitcher to fill Heilman's spot, but I don't get why we'd make a trade when we have Heath Bell in the minors. I know he hasn't been great in the majors for the last two years (5.05 ERA, 1.42 WHIP over 3 years and 73 innings), but he's pretty much mastered AAA:

18.7 IP, 0.96 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 31 K, 3 BB, 0 HR, and 7 saves

Why not give him a legitimate chance to succeed in the majors? Especially since Julio seems to be straightened out:

8.7 IP, 2.08 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 10.38 K/9 in May

If Bell fails during, say, 5 to 10 low-pressure appearances, THEN we can try and trade for someone.

[Centerfield]

I don't see how Julio is "straightened out". On Saturday, he pitched two innings, and gave up two leadoff walks...one of them which came around to be the winning run.

Am I the only one that still finds this unacceptable? Or has he set the bar so low that we are just content he's not giving up multiple runs per inning?

[duan]

Julio's been pitching MUCH better and he's starting to become a valuable 4th/5th man in a pen.

He's only given up 2 er's in this month and while his WHIP has still been in the 1.5 department he hasn't given up a dinger either, so you have to give him a run in two innings again the yankees.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Centerfield wrote: I don't see how Julio is "straightened out". On Saturday, he pitched two innings, and gave up two leadoff walks...one of them which came around to be the winning run. Am I the only one that still finds this unacceptable? Or has he set the bar so low that we are just content he's not giving up multiple runs per inning?

Well, allowing 3 baserunners and a run over 2 innings certainly isn't great, but it's not awful, either. Especially when you consider that the run only scored because Castro inexplicably didn't try and throw out Cairo at all.

I know it's somehow supposed to be Julio's fault, but I don't get that. First off, pickoffs get called from the bench and I don't remember any pick-off attempts. Secondly, if Julio's so slow to the plate, why not try a pitch-out or something?

But I digress. My point is that allowing 3 baserunners and 1 run over 2 innings is hardly evidence that Julio (still) sucks, especially in the context of his performance through the rest of May, which was pretty darn good.

[nymr83]

Julio has progressed to the point where getting rid of him is no longer "addition by subtraction" but he's still got BB and HR issues and those are both huge problems for trusting someone in close games.
I'm fine with him in his present role but he shouldn't be moving up the depth chart yet.