Skipping Zambrano in the rotation.

[Gwreck]

vs. the Giants:
Mon - Glavine
Tue - Trachsel
Wed - Bannister

Thursday is an off day, before we go to Turner Field. The off day lets us skip Zambrano, with the rotation setting up vs. the Braves as:

Fri - Pedro
Sat - Glavine
Sun - Trachsel

I sure hope they decide to do this.

[nymr83]

I would be using a 4+1 to begin with, but particularly with our rotation setting up the way it is for the bBraves you almost MUST skip him.

[Guest vtmet]

skipping Zambrano in the rotation?

Or

Eliminate Zambrano from the rotation, and from the roster? He ain't getting any better...at this point of time, I would trust Julio with an important game on the line than marshmallow brain...

[HahnSolo]

He's had three starts. Before start one, Willie made it clear to M & MD that Trachsel was his fifth starter (!), implying that Victor was his #3 guy. I doubt after three outings he's going to start skipping over Zambrano.

[nymr83]

So we're gonna let him open against the Braves instead of Pedro? yeah, way to set the tone for the series guys...

[HahnSolo]

Hey, I'm just reporting what I heard. If it were up to me he'd be starting for Norfolk on Friday.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

WWSB has since backpedaled pretty furiously on that M&MD statement, which was made too much of then and now. Zamby had to be inserted somewhere. Schedule now allows for him to be skipped but if he isn't I'm sure it's not because he's 4 or 5 or whatever but because they've got an interest in getting him straightened out.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: WWSB has since backpedaled pretty furiously on that M&MD statement, which was made too much of then and now. .

More CYA and PR BS. It ain't like MD didn't give him a zillion chances to back off it then:

"B-b-ut Willie, geez, ya gotta think Traschel's had some pretty solid years for you, ya know--"

"Shove it, Chris. He's my number 5 guy. Cinco. The next thing to being sent into the pen. Five-o."

"But what's Zambrano ever done to deserve--"

"He's got priority over Traschel in my rotation, dumbo. If I'm skipping anyone, I'm skipping Trachsel--"

"That seems unfair, WIllie--"

"Live with it, Chris--That's what I think"bbbyyy

IOW, some PR flak got to him afterwards and talked him into retracting his strongly worded, clearly expressed beliefs. And you're going with the cleaned up version? That's what he believes.

[nymr83]

what are you bitching about? i don't give a rat's ass what willie says to M&MD, i care about what he DOES and he hasn't yet treated Traschel like a "5th starter" this year.

[Guest heep]

How much time are they going to give Zambrano, and how much of their interest in straightening him out is based on the trade?

Why does he have so much slack? If my opinion means anything, I do not think Zambrano will ever be anything more than a 12-12 pitcher, at best.

Simply put, I cannot stand watching this fucking guy pitch. Trade him, I want to watch Pelfrey this summer.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

="Nymr83"]what are you bitching about? i don't give a rat's ass what willie says to M&MD, i care about what he DOES and he hasn't yet treated Traschel like a "5th starter" this year.

Except for skipping his turn in the rotation, you're 100% correct.

If you pay attention to the games, baseball makes more sense. Try it and see.

[Guest heep]

After reading Marty Noble's article about Sunday's game, I sense an underlying skeptisism of Zambrano's ability, future, and lack of respect his teammates have of him. Actually its pretty clear.

I wonder who this anonymous Met is who is speaking out against Zambrano. Its not the first time I have read an anonymous, negative quote of Zambrano.

Who is it?

[nymr83]

="Bret Sabermetric"] ="Nymr83"]what are you bitching about? i don't give a rat's ass what willie says to M&MD, i care about what he DOES and he hasn't yet treated Traschel like a "5th starter" this year. Except for skipping his turn in the rotation, you're 100% correct. If you pay attention to the games, baseball makes more sense. Try it and see.

i thought that was rain-related, i apologize if it wasnt

[Frayed Knot]

Trachsel didn't have a start "skipped"; rather his 2nd start was delayed 2 days in order to get Zambrano his 1st which had been postponed due to his ST hammy injury plus a bout with the flu.
And, unless the Mets start skipping the 5th started position - something they haven't done in many years - what "number" starter is assigned to each pitcher is vurtually meaningless.

[nymr83]

well yeah, nut you've gotta ignore all that because it doesnt jivew with Bret's fantasy world where the Mets are always wrong.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

It's very simple--Trachsel had his start delayed so Zambrano could get his start in on schedule. That's what M & MD were asking about, and that's what WWSB agreed he was doing to Ttrachsel, treating him like a 5th starter by jerking him in and out of the rotation.

All the rain delays, and all the "no fifth starters", and all the "Bret's Met-hating agenda" crap, and all the PR spin in the world won't change that for a second.

[Centerfield]

Those are some damning quotes in Marty Noble's article. I have no patience whatsoever with Zambrano but quotes like that aren't going to help.

The thing I'm starting to wonder is whether his problems really are mental, or a product of pitch selection, or whether his problem is that he's just not that good.

Seems to me we criticize him for not throwing strikes, but when he does throw strikes, they get hit a long way.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I think that we, the Mets front office, the manager, the coaches, and the fans, have to put Scott Kazmir aside and evaluate Victor Zambrano for who he is, and not through the spectrum of how he got here.

If he can't get the job done, he should be easily disposable; there's no large or long-term financial commitment to him. It's possible, though that he really is one of the five best starters currently available to them, at least if you accept the notion that Heilman is needed in the bullpen. If that's the case, then they ought to be thinking about finding someone better.

I wouldn't give up on him just yet, but I wouldn't give him a long rope either. The Mets have been winning a good proportion of the games that Zambrano hasn't been starting, so they can afford a little slack for the time being. Maybe Zambrano will right himself, and at least become the moderately and occasionally effective pitcher he was last year. If (more likely, when) the division tightens up, which will probably be soon, Zambrano will have to pitch better. If not, you have to find alternatives.

Maybe Heilman moves into the rotation. Maybe Lima comes up and holds down the fort until Pelfrey is ready. Maybe someone else at AAA can get a try. But keeping Zambrano in the rotation because of the 2004 Kazmir deal shouldn't be an option. And it doesn't even serve a CYA purpose for the Mets. Every time Victor takes the mound and fails, we're reminded of Kazmir. If he was gone, that reminder would be gone, too. Yes, the fans will still bitch and moan over the deal; they still haven't gotten over Jim Fregosi or Juan Samuel, but at least there won't be fresh salt in the wound every five days.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

The troubling thing is all the HRs he's coughed up already.

For all his control & baserunner issues, he was stingy with the longball last year -- which was fortunate because there probably isn't a pitcher out there against whom HRs will be so expensive.

[soupcan]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I think that we, the Mets front office, the manager, the coaches, and the fans, have to put Scott Kazmir aside and evaluate Victor Zambrano for who he is, and not through the spectrum of how he got here.

This was never an issue with me. Good trade, bad trade doesn't matter. What's done is done and you can't change it. Besides the fact that the jury is still way out on this trade. Kazmir looks like a nice young pitcher but I don't think the HOF should start commissioning his plaque just yet.

If the Mets are pitching Zambrano simply to justify a bad trade by a GM that isn't here anymore that's pretty silly and I'd like to believe that the decision-makers here are a bit more intelligent than that. It's not like Kazmir was Tom Seaver and the fans are up in arms about it either.

Zambrano pitched well for Tampa Bay no? He was a solid starter for them and he's even had his moments here. It's still April, I'm not tossing this guy on the woodplie just yet. Give him a few more starts.

Whenever I see a pitcher starting slow I think of John Tudor in 1985. He opened the season 1-7. He went 20-1 the rest of the way and finished second in the Cy Young to some bad seed flash-in-the-pan whose name escapes me.

[smg58]

Right, I don't see the need to hit the panic button on Zambrano just yet. He had enough good starts for us last year to earn a little bit of slack. It's easy to get mad at Zambrano because of the awful deal that brought him here, but three starts don't make a season.

[Guest heep]

Its not only that he loses, but he makes mistakes that would be seriously reprimanded on a college level. His pitch selection and control is unacceptable.

[Guest vtmet]

Centerfield wrote: Seems to me we criticize him for not throwing strikes, but when he does throw strikes, they get hit a long way.

I think it's more about when he throws the strikes and when he throws the balls...he's afraid to throw a guy like Dave Roberts a strike, putting a pitcher and a weak hitter on the bases for the meat of the order...in the first, with an 0-2 count to a rookie, he grooves a nothing pitch right down the middle instead of setting up the rookie...and he even was ahead of Giles, shakes off LoDuca several times, loads the count and serves up a fat meatball to the most dangerous guy in their lineup...

Just like in the Atlanta game, the most dangerous guy in the lineup (Andruw Jones), the guy that should almost be pitched around, he gives up 2 HRs to...and the guys in front of Jones, that are less dangerous, but you don't want on the bases for Jones, he walked all 3 of them...

[metsmarathon]

its a minor point... but is he afraid, or just unable, to throw strikes to dave roberts, et al.?

[Vic Sage]

whats the matter with you, mm?

haven't you learned by now that any athlete's failure is an indication of his flawed character?

don't you listen to sports talk, sports reporters and sports announcers?

[Guest Rotblatt]

If Julio's turnaround is legit, I think sending Zambrano to AAA and moving Heilman back into the rotation is the way to go.

Zambrano's just baffling.

Zambrano from April 2005 - July 2005
3.78 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 0.86 H/IP, 0.46 HR/9, 4.40 BB/9, 5.70 K/9, 1.30 K/BB

Excellent H/IP. And not at all unusual for him--he posted H/IP of .84 in 2004 & .88 in 2003. Excellent HR/9. Likely an abberation, however (0.91 in 2004, 1.00 in 2003). Bad control, but a career best for him up to that point. Career low in K/9. Nonetheless, a highly effective four months. You'd expect his HR/9 to rise, and with it, his ERA--maybe up to the low 4's or so. Here's what followed.

Zambrano from August 2005 - present:

63.7 IP, 6.08 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, 1.24 H/IP, 1.55 HR/9, 4.10 BB/9, 6.5 K/9, 1.59 K/BB

H/9 skyrocketed. HR/9 skyrocketed. His control & K's got better, but it's like overnight he became hittable and HR prone.

Bizarre. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it's like he sacrificed stuff for control and just got burned, then made zero adjustments to it.

And Spring Training 2006 completely dovetails with that assessment as well:

13.7 IP, 4.61 ERA, 1.54 WHIP, 1.32 H/IP, 1.98 HR/9, 1.98 BB/9, 5.27 K/9, 2.67 K/BB

That boy just ain't right. Is he injured? Fucked up in the head? At this point, I'd just be happy if he were able to get back to being an average pitcher.

[Guest abogdan]

From today's Post:

]Even though the Mets don't play Thursday, Randolph said Victor Zambrano will not be skipped in the rotation. But Minaya indicated that Zambrano (9.64 ERA) has to get going.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

That sounds like a pretty reasonable take to me.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: That sounds like a pretty reasonable take to me.

Eminently so. I'd say he's got to get that ERA below 8.00 before July, or we'll be thinking VERY hard about skipping his turn once in a while, when circumstances demand it.

[Guest abogdan]

Except the part about Victor Zambrano pitching this weekend against Atlanta instead of Brian Bannister. That part doesn't make sense.