All Purpose Schaefer Discussion Thread

[Elster88]

LOL

[Elster88]

If three home runs isn't worthy of 6 points, I'm not sure what is.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="Nymr83"]i dont care enough to do it again, its still in my private totals. That's the community spirit!

There's no "i" in Schaefer.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Elster88 wrote: If three home runs isn't worthy of 6 points, I'm not sure what is.

Especially since nobody else did anything noteworthy last night.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for the August 14 game will close on Thursday morning.

Namor, on August 15 you voted for Hernandez. Both Orlando and Roberto pitched in that game. Please edit your vote. Thanks.

[nymr83]

edited. you'd have to be clinically insane to give el duque points for that game.

[nymr83]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: ="Elster88"]If three home runs isn't worthy of 6 points, I'm not sure what is. Especially since nobody else did anything noteworthy last night.

if thats the standard then why did we eliminate the rule that you must give 10 points every game?

reyes' 2nd and 8th inning homers, while they may pad his statistics nicely and are a nice individual accomplishment, did next to nothign to help the club win.

[Elster88]

I gave him 6 because it's player of the game polling, not player of the win polling. He had about as good a game you can have hitting-wise, and did it when the rest of the offense got completely shut down. His individual accomplishment isn't lessened because it was a loss. In fact, it's more impressive because no one else could do anything with the bat yesterday.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Nicely put Elster.

And, again, it's not like anyone else had such a stellar game that would merit a lot of points, so there wasn't the issue of splitting points between a couple of guys who did very well.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for Tuesday's night's loss to the Phillies will close on Friday morning.

And voting for Wednesday's night's loss will close on Saturday.

[MFS62]

="Elster88"]I gave him 6 because it's player of the game polling, not player of the win polling. He had about as good a game you can have hitting-wise, and did it when the rest of the offense got completely shut down. His individual accomplishment isn't lessened because it was a loss.

And that is the point I've made in several MVP discussion threads. I like the distinction made by the Sporting News in naming their "Player of the Year" award annually. It is the player who had the best (statistical) year, regardless of how his teammates performed or his team's record.

The official MVP award is sometimes awarded to the player with the best stats, but it doesn't have to be. It should be awarded to the player who, when they are in the lineup and/or they are doing well, their team does better than when they're not. The most recent examples I can think of were in the AL.

Two (or was it three/) years ago, when the Yankees jumped out to a double digit lead, Hidecki Matsui was their driving force. Jeter and A-Rod were off to slow starts and Sheffield was injured. But night after night, Matsui was the player who led them to that big lead. Later, Sheffield returned and compiled great numbers, but the Yankee lead actually decreased. Sheffield got the MVP, but I felt the W-L numbers showed that Matsui was "more valuable" to the record/performance of his team.

The second example was Vlad Guerrero last year. While he was injured, his team floundered around the .500 mark. Once he returned to the lineup, his team surged to a playoff berth. They stunk without him, they won big with him in the lineup. And to me that was a demonstration of what an MVP is all about. (Unless you're Captain Intangibles. Then, all bets are off.)

I agree with elster and Scarlett. The points awarded in our POTG should be like the Sporting News award, and based on what the player did. A Reyes- like performance should earn votes regardless of whether or not the team won.

Later

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

I gave Maine a little less beer than I otherwise would have for today's effort because he left the game with two runners on base and nobody out. He was very lucky that the pen stranded those inherited runners and kept the Phillies from getting back into the game, so I made sure that those guys got some sips of beer.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Jose Reyes making a strong bid for a Player of the Month award.

Beltran hanging on to his season lead, but Reyes is coming on strong.

Xavier Nady, who seems like he's been gone forever, is still in the top ten.


CPF Schaefer Voting Results


Month-to-date totals for August 2006
Through game of August 15, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Jos� Reyes	19.22
2	Carlos Beltran	10.20
3	David Wright	8.74
4	Pedro Martinez	8.23
5	Paul Lo Duca	7.60
6	Steve Trachsel	6.91
7	Tom Glavine	6.32
8	Jos� Valentin	5.74
8	Orlando Hernandez	5.74
10	Endy Chavez	5.63
11	Aaron Heilman	5.24
12	John Maine	4.72
13	Carlos Delgado	4.25
14	Billy Wagner	4.24
15	Michael Tucker	3.05
16	Roberto Hernandez	2.94
17	Lastings Milledge	2.76
18	Darren Oliver	2.53
19	Pedro Feliciano	2.11
20	Chad Bradford	1.92
21	Royce Ring	1.81
22	Julio Franco	1.05
23	Mike Pelfrey	1.04
24	Cliff Floyd	0.19

Season-to-date totals for 2006
Through game of August 15, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Carlos Beltran	96.17
2	David Wright	93.01
3	Jos� Reyes	87.24
4	Carlos Delgado	73.76
5	Tom Glavine	63.35
6	Pedro Martinez	56.43
7	Paul Lo Duca	46.03
8	Jos� Valentin	45.42
9	Steve Trachsel	41.96
10	Xavier Nady	40.15
11	Orlando Hernandez	34.74
12	Cliff Floyd	32.55
13	Billy Wagner	31.29
14	Endy Chavez	29.52
15	Duaner Sanchez	27.65
16	Darren Oliver	26.91
17	Aaron Heilman	26.01
18	John Maine	19.63
19	Chad Bradford	17.57
20	Alay Soler	17.56
21	Pedro Feliciano	16.97
22	Lastings Milledge	13.28
23	Brian Bannister	12.69
24	Chris Woodward	10.55
25	Ramon Castro	10.24
26	Julio Franco	9.76
27	Kaz Matsui	7.97
28	Heath Bell	7.51
29	Jorge Julio	5.37
30	Mike Pelfrey	5.19
31	Victor Zambrano	4.66
32	Jeremi Gonzalez	3.25
33	Michael Tucker	3.05
34	Roberto Hernandez	2.94
35	Eli Marrero	2.41
36	Royce Ring	1.81
37	Henry Owens	0.89
38	Anderson Hernandez	0.57
39	Victor Diaz	0.32
40	Bartolome Fortunato	0.28
41	Jos� Lima	0.12

[Guest Edgy DC]

Let there be no overlooking Carlos Beltran this evening: 2-3, 2 walks, 2 runs scored, a steal of third, and an outfield assist (even if that last was something of a gimme).

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for the final game in Philadelphia will close on Monday afternoon.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Low vote counts on all three games against the Rockies. Voting will close tomorrow.

Be sure to vote on these three wins!

• Friday night
• Saturday night
• Sunday afternoon

[metsmarathon]

well... that susks...

my uber-schaeffer spreadsheet just bit the dust! all the formatting is gone, and its too hard to tell anymore if the formulae are all intact.

i may cry.

folks, if you spend half a year creating, maintaining, and updating a massively overcomplicated spreadsheet, be sure to regularly back it up.

OE: and hour and a half later, and its back in workable shape. however, its no longer as pretty. i can use it to score future games. games that happened in teh past would require too much effort to ressurect, visually. the data is all there, but its just a bunch of ugly numbers and spaces. oh well. at least my tally sheet survived the mayhem!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Month-to-date totals for August 2006
Through game of August 20, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Jos� Reyes	19.74
2	Carlos Beltran	15.42
3	Carlos Delgado	10.97
4	David Wright	10.48
5	Steve Trachsel	10.05
6	Orlando Hernandez	10.04
7	Tom Glavine	9.57
8	Pedro Martinez	8.23
9	Paul Lo Duca	7.60
10	Aaron Heilman	7.55
11	Endy Chavez	7.48
12	John Maine	7.45
13	Billy Wagner	6.25
14	Lastings Milledge	5.95
15	Jos� Valentin	5.86
16	Chad Bradford	4.19
17	Michael Tucker	4.11
18	Roberto Hernandez	2.94
19	Dave Williams	2.66
20	Darren Oliver	2.53
21	Pedro Feliciano	2.40
22	Royce Ring	1.81
23	Julio Franco	1.05
24	Mike Pelfrey	1.04
25	Chris Woodward	0.53
26	Cliff Floyd	0.19
27	Mike DiFelice	0.14

Season-to-date totals for 2006
Through game of August 20, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Carlos Beltran	101.39
2	David Wright	94.75
3	Jos� Reyes	87.76
4	Carlos Delgado	80.48
5	Tom Glavine	66.60
6	Pedro Martinez	56.43
7	Paul Lo Duca	46.03
8	Jos� Valentin	45.54
9	Steve Trachsel	45.10
10	Xavier Nady	40.15
11	Orlando Hernandez	39.04
12	Billy Wagner	33.30
13	Cliff Floyd	32.55
14	Endy Chavez	31.37
15	Aaron Heilman	28.32
16	Duaner Sanchez	27.65
17	Darren Oliver	26.91
18	John Maine	22.36
19	Chad Bradford	19.84
20	Alay Soler	17.56
21	Pedro Feliciano	17.26
22	Lastings Milledge	16.47
23	Brian Bannister	12.69
24	Chris Woodward	11.08
25	Ramon Castro	10.24
26	Julio Franco	9.76
27	Kaz Matsui	7.97
28	Heath Bell	7.51
29	Jorge Julio	5.37
30	Mike Pelfrey	5.19
31	Victor Zambrano	4.66
32	Michael Tucker	4.11
33	Jeremi Gonzalez	3.25
34	Roberto Hernandez	2.94
35	Dave Williams	2.66
36	Eli Marrero	2.41
37	Royce Ring	1.81
38	Henry Owens	0.89
39	Anderson Hernandez	0.57
40	Victor Diaz	0.32
41	Bartolome Fortunato	0.28
42	Mike DiFelice	0.14
43	Jos� Lima	0.12

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for the Tuesday night slugfest against St. Louis will close on Friday morning.

[MFS62]

Feliciano has a very good ERA. But it seems he usually needs other pitchers to keep the runners he puts on from scoring.
Later

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for Wednesday's game against the Cardinals will close on Saturday morning.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]Two (?) points (see above) for Bannister when he didn't even turn in a quality start?

Yup ©. It's gotta be looked at in the context of the game: Bannister had an awful first inning, gave up a HR to Howard, which certainly isnt a crime, but importantly pitched cleanly for 3 innings after that and left his mates with every chance to win it. Plus he was coming back from a long layoff and despite the 4 runs, prolly pitched just as well as he had -- if not better -- than those ugly April Houdini jobs where he was allowing a billion baserunners per inning but was sprung by good luck and good run support and richly rewarded by voters anywhoo.

I suppoose you can argue 2 is too many, but I still came under the limit and I think there's an even weaker case for none -- especially when no one leaving him off the ballot even approached the 10 limit themselves. This during a home game where we brought the tying or go-ahead run to the plate for 12 outs, or almost half the game.

I think most voters are too lazy with point distribution anyhow, particularly in losses-- just watch as guys like Woodward go beerless tonight despite having reached base twice and made a nice defensive play: In a one-run game where the team managed only 11 baserunners, shouldn't that deserve something?

[Gwreck]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Yup (c). It's gotta be looked at in the context of the game: Bannister had an awful first inning, gave up a HR to Howard, which certainly isnt a crime, but importantly pitched cleanly for 3 innings after that and left his mates with every chance to win it.

I'm tempted to agree, except that perhaps lets him off the hook a little too much. A hiccup here or there isn't going to render him beerless -- ie. the bad first inning followed by a solid 4-5 wouldn't be a problem. Nor would a big homer to otherwise mar a good outing. It felt like a little too much to be beer-worthy.

]I think most voters are too lazy with point distribution anyhow, particularly in losses-- just watch as guys like Woodward go beerless tonight despite having reached base twice and made a nice defensive play: In a one-run game where the team managed only 11 baserunners, shouldn't that deserve something?

It's an interesting philosophical question. I don't know if everybody's lazy because it's a loss, although I know there are times when I don't feel like awarding points. That being said, if there's a 10 point maximum on wins, it often lowers the scores of worthy contributors. Last Tuesday's game versus the Cardinals, Beltran deserved more than he got for that walk-off HR, but Delgado had a big night, plus LoDuca had 3 hits -- plus there were four worthy relievers.

So how do we combat this? By not awarding as many points in the losses. Sure, Woodward's 1-3 was OK, but we can't overlook the fact that he couldn't get a ball out of the infield when it mattered, either. The catch was great, but it saved a single when there was nobody on. Nice game, but in a loss it's tough to award beer.

I worry sometimes that point totals can be inflated based on doing well in losses. Call it the Darren Oliver effect.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Giving Woodward no beer is "rewarding" two times on base and a nice play as highly as Shawn Green's DP-laden, clutchless, failing-to-pick-the-ball-in-the-corner gets rewarded, for example.

A few ounces -- a shot glass -- is all it called for.

Bannister was on the road to a thirsty night but earned his beer on the back end. Keith would call it a "hang-with-em." You know after the game, Keith shares his Budweisers with the hangwithems.

The suggestion that a weighted discount be applied to losses has been roundly defeated here.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for the final game against the Cardinals will close on Tuesday morning.

And on Wednesday morning, voting for the Friday and Saturday games against Philadelphia will close.

Player of the Month for August is currently scheduled to be announced on the morning of Tuesday, September 5.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for the Monday afternoon makeup game against the Phillies will close on Thursday morning.

[MFS62]

Angel Hernandez gets to blow the foam off David Wright's suds.

Later

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Ewww - that sounds very creepy.

[Willets Point]

It occurs to me that in a little over a month we will be submiting our votes for the first ever Schaefer POSTSEASON PotG.

I tingle with excitement.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for Tuesday night's game in Colorado will close on Friday morning.