All Purpose Schaefer Discussion Thread

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Rockin' Doc... you only gave 8.25 points for the May 1 win. Was that intentional?

[Centerfield]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I couldn't give Reyes any Schaeffer last night. I felt that his baserunning blunder (getting picked off trying to stretch a double into a triple) outweighed his 9th inning single.

I didn't like how the announcers were implying that Reyes was "off the hook" after Delgado hit the HR. No, if Reyes had run that out, the Mets would have had the lead.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Yancy - "Rockin' Doc... you only gave 8.25 points for the May 1 win. Was that intentional?"

In my initial vote, yes. After seeing your post, I did go back and edit my initial vote. I had inadvertently overlooked Xavier Nady who was 2-3 with a walk, He did his job, so I added him and I also bumped Reyes up by 0.25 points. His one out single in the bottom of the ninth was huge. The total still doesn't quite add up to 10 points, but I'm comfortable with it.

[Gwreck]

Yancy -- curious as to why Wright gets Schaefer points from you for the 5/2 game. What am I missing?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Not to speak for YSG, but he had a walk, a SB and two nice fielding plays.

Me, I'm denying Wright any beer till he stops whiffing and popping up so often.

[Gwreck]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Not to speak for YSG, but he had a walk, a SB and two nice fielding plays. Me, I'm denying Wright any beer till he stops whiffing and popping up so often.

Ok, forgot about the fielding plays.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

What Johnny said.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Definitely don't see 10 points happening tonight. We'll see waht we can come up with though.

[Gwreck]

For the 5/3 game -- no love for Mr. Heilman (2 perfect relief innings).

I see him left off a ballot, and given pts 1/3 and 1/2 of what Bradford (also 2 scorless relief innings) got.

Does the timing of the relief innings change their value? My inclination is to say no, but curious as to what people think.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I'd say Bradford deserves more Shaefer than Heilman tonight -- and Heilman was SICK. It's just different pitchinbg the 7th & 8th with a 2-run lead at home and pitching the 11th & 12th of a game where the bad guys already got to the 14 million closer.

I don;t like seeing real contributors get left off the ballot completely. I edited twice to include a sip for Floyd (nice catch, heroic trip around the bases) and Castro.

[Gwreck]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I don;t like seeing real contributors get left off the ballot completely. I edited twice to include a sip for Floyd (nice catch, heroic trip around the bases) and Castro.

I know, but by the same token, I have a real tough time giving anything less than 3 to Pedro tonight. The strong-start-after-a-loss is HUGE, and he was lights-out with the exception of the 1st inning solo homer. Wasn't his fault it went to extras (giving people like Bradford the chance to earn pts). Without the extras, would've been a 4.5 - 5 point performance for Pedro.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

If April had 31 days, Delgado would have been Schaefer Player of the Month.

Season-to-date totals for 2006
Through game of May 1, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Carlos Delgado	21.59
2	Tom Glavine	21.48
3	David Wright	18.85
4	Pedro Martinez	17.49
5	Xavier Nady	15.11
6	Jos� Reyes	13.85
7	Brian Bannister	12.69
8	Carlos Beltran	11.85
9	Duaner Sanchez	11.04
10	Steve Trachsel	10.14
11	Paul Lo Duca	9.55
12	Billy Wagner	8.64
13	Cliff Floyd	7.63
14	Aaron Heilman	5.94
15	Endy Chavez	4.62
16	Ramon Castro	4.52
17	Victor Zambrano	4.48
18	Pedro Feliciano	4.07
19	Chris Woodward	4.03
20	Kaz Matsui	3.83
21	Julio Franco	3.78
22	Darren Oliver	3.41
23	Jorge Julio	2.27
24	Chad Bradford	1.67
25	Anderson Hernandez	0.57
26	Victor Diaz	0.32
27	Jos� Valentin	0.11

[MFS62]

Last night's game was the toughest for me to score. (It was tough for the Official Scorer on a ball hit by Endy too, but that's a different issue).


I wanted to award Endy 5 points(maybe 6). He contributed with the glove as well as the bat.
But what do you do for the others who contributed so well?
Pedro certainly deserved maybe 4 points for a stellar performance.
But how much was Ralu's game winning homer worth? Three?
And how about the relievers who kept them in / won the game? Don't they deserve some points, too?

This was a game in which I felt constrained by the 10 point maximum.

Later

[Centerfield]

Absolutely. I didn't reward Heilman at all for two dominant innings. Nothing to Sanchez for another strong inning. And the guys I did award points to deserved more. I guess that makes it a good game.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I agree. Before Wagner blew the save, I was planning on distributing 7 points among the pitchers (Pedro, Heilman, and Wagner) with the points weighted according to the number of innings. (4.7, 1.5, 0.8) That would have left 3 for the offense, most (or all) of which would have gone to Chavez.

Didn't work that way, though. Wagner gave up his beer, but Bradford and Sanchez stepped up, and so, obviously, did Delgado. Made it a tough one to score.

Did you refer to Delgado as "Ralu"? I've never heard that one. What does it mean?

[MFS62]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Did you refer to Delgado as "Ralu"? I've never heard that one. What does it mean?

I think I mentioned it when the Mets got him.
I have a friend who lives in Toronto, is a big Jays fan, and is married to an Inuit woman. He always called Delgado "Ralu".

It is Inuit for "Deity".

The way he's been playing, the monicker fits him.

Later

[Centerfield]

If I could give everyone a Shaefer point tonight, I would.

[nymr83]

this is gonna be a tough one, i think i'll wait for tommorow to vote

[nymr83]

Its buried in the article, but Bill Mueller's favorite beer is Schaffer!

Mueller loves Schaffer

[Guest GYC]

No disrespect to Victor with the last game, but I feel that 1.1 innings with 3 K's is more valuable later in the game. I have a bit more respect for him (and even a bit of pity) after that game, but there were just too many guys who played key roles in that game.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting on the entire Atlanta series at Shea will close on Tuesday. The Friday and Saturday games will probably close in the morning, but I'll leave the Sunday game until Tuesday afternoon. At that point we'll be all caught up and I'll post the season-to-date totals in this thread.

If you haven't voted for these games, please be sure to get your votes in.

Friday (Trachsel's start; Mets win 8-4)

Saturday (Zambrano's start; Mets win 6-5)

Sunday (Lima's start; Mets lose 13-3)

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

And now, for the first time this season, we're all caught up. As promised, here are the current standings for the 2006 season, as well as for the month of May.



Month-to-date totals for May 2006
Through game of May 7, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Carlos Beltran	6.08
2	Carlos Delgado	5.41
3	Tom Glavine	4.68
4	Victor Zambrano	4.24
5	Jos� Reyes	4.07
6	David Wright	3.58
7	Xavier Nady	3.47
8	Pedro Martinez	2.92
9	Duaner Sanchez	2.56
10	Kaz Matsui	2.44
11	Jorge Julio	2.43
12	Paul Lo Duca	2.38
13	Darren Oliver	2.11
14	Endy Chavez	2.07
15	Aaron Heilman	1.75
15	Cliff Floyd	1.75
17	Chad Bradford	1.65
18	Pedro Feliciano	1.56
19	Billy Wagner	1.09
20	John Maine	0.76
21	Julio Franco	0.30
22	Bartolome Fortunato	0.28
23	Jos� Lima	0.12
24	Jos� Valentin	0.11
25	Steve Trachsel	0.06
26	Ramon Castro	0.03
27	Chris Woodward	0.01

Season-to-date totals for 2006
Through game of May 7, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Tom Glavine	26.16
2	Carlos Delgado	25.11
3	David Wright	22.43
4	Pedro Martinez	20.41
5	Xavier Nady	18.24
6	Carlos Beltran	17.93
7	Jos� Reyes	17.56
8	Brian Bannister	12.69
9	Duaner Sanchez	12.58
10	Paul Lo Duca	11.90
11	Steve Trachsel	10.20
12	Cliff Floyd	9.38
13	Billy Wagner	8.64
14	Aaron Heilman	7.69
15	Endy Chavez	6.59
16	Kaz Matsui	6.27
17	Darren Oliver	5.52
18	Pedro Feliciano	4.86
19	Jorge Julio	4.70
20	Victor Zambrano	4.66
21	Ramon Castro	4.55
22	Chris Woodward	4.04
23	Julio Franco	3.78
24	Chad Bradford	3.32
25	John Maine	0.76
26	Anderson Hernandez	0.57
27	Victor Diaz	0.32
28	Bartolome Fortunato	0.28
29	Jos� Valentin	0.22
30	Jos� Lima	0.12

[Gwreck]

Re: the Philly game, 5/9/06 --

Pretty sure that this is the first time I've seen people consistently giving out 10 points despite the fact that we've lost.

[Theoldmole]

I have a kind of policy about giving out ten points for a loss. It's a policy I could break easily enough, but I stuck to it for this game -- 9 points.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

http://potg.leaptoad.com/mets/rawdata.php?year=2006

Glancing at the numbers, it looks like the most points awarded to a loss was the 9.47 in the second game of the season.

Several wins have also failed to get 10 points, which is a little suprising. The lowest for a win was 9.78 on May 6.

[Gwreck]

Wow, there's a whole lot of beer being thrown around after the rain-shortened loss to the Phillies. Way, way too many points being awarded, considering that we lost, Trachsel pitched OK but not well (2 runs in 4 innings) and we had 2 hits in 5 innings! I don't see how that could be worth anything more than 2 points for the whole team (at the VERY most generous).

[Elster88]

I thought I was the only one who cared about silly voting.

Trachsel and Nady got waaay too much love.

___________________
Maybe I'm the only one who cares. But at least it's something to discuss. When does the game start?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

A five-inning game does lead to some oddities.

[metsmarathon]

see, if i choose to award ten points for each and every game, i think that's my right as a schaeffer voter. the total of my points that i give out should not be subject to scrutiny, however i agree that the distribution of those points should be subject to debate and question.

a walk and a double has no absolute value, no theoretical maximum value and no theoretical minimum, either. it is a relative scale. relative to the other players in the game, i chose to award two points (out of 6 or so total) for this performance. if others had performed better than they had, they would have made a case for them deserving higher point totals, and therefore would take away some points for loduca.

if we had a game where everybody in the lineup went 0-5, the pitchers all pitched to a 9.00 ERA, but one guy squeaked out a meager hit, then i could conceiveably award him 6 points as the top performer in a game. in any other game, that performance would merit fewer points. but its a relative measure

much the same as in a game where the pitcher throws a 1-hitter, and three guys go 4-5 with a homer and double apiece, and a few RBI, and another guy goes 4-4, with a walk, 4 runs scored and three stolen bases in cluding two of home. each of those guys would get maybe two points apiece, or maybe the pitcher would get 6 and the rest would get one each? how does that make sense, absent a relativistic environment? either way, somebody's gonna get screwed for having their good performance in the same game as somebody else.

so you live with it, or throw out the whole ten point max thing.

if only one guy doesnt completely suck in a game, why isnt that worth some exra schaeffer love?

[Elster88]

metsmarathon wrote: see, if i choose to award ten points for each and every game, i think that's my right as a schaeffer voter. the total of my points that i give out should not be subject to scrutiny, however i agree that the distribution of those points should be subject to debate and question.

The should not be subject to scrutiny, but they should be open to debate and question?