WBC: Round 2--- IGT Japan v. United States of Jeter (3/12)

[Guest Rotblatt]

holychicken wrote: I don't get why Japan got screwed. A batter earlier (or two, not sure), one of those who was walked to load the bases, was given a ball when he clearly had swung. I know it is certainly not as egregious as taking a run off the board but certainly could have had just as much of an impact on the outcome of the game. On top of that, say Japan had only scored that one run, Arod's shot up the middle would have probably scored 2 as it was 2 outs and the runners would have been going and the outfielders were playing deep (why, I have no idea). Sure, the call was wrong and totally sucked . . . however, it wasn't the first wrong call of the game (and certainly won't be the last of the tourney) and it is reasonable to believe that US could have tied or won it in the 9th.

For me, it was because Team America is the HEAVY favorite to win it all, and when you've got one of the weaker (only 1 MLB player on it--fewer than anyone else in round 2) they need every run they can get. When you get one pulled from you from a bad call by the umpire, it's just brutal.

I mean, it's like stealing chips from the dealer after you've already stacked the deck.

The WBC rules mean that if you lose your first game, you have to both win every other game AND pitch close to perfectly. Given that Mexico & Korea gave up only 2 and 1 runs in their first game, respectively, it means that even if Japan manages to tie Korea or Mexico, they're already underdogs in the tie breaker.

I completely agree that Team America COULD have tied it up anyway in the ninth, but you kind of have to attribute some of the mental miscues in the ninth to the fact that they were robbed of the go-ahead run.

Not to mention, they should not only have had the lead, but one more out to play with.

Japan's really got their work cut out for them now. And it's unfortunate, because they played well enough to win.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Red, white and typical

]Red, white and typical By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports March 12, 2006 ANAHEIM, Calif. � Japanese text Loosely translated, those characters mean "That is not fair" in Japanese. Based on what transpired in Team USA's 4-3 victory against Japan in the second round of the World Baseball Classic on Sunday afternoon, that's among the most benign things that could be said. The reversal of a call that would've given Japan the go-ahead run in the eighth inning only lent credence to the thought that tournament organizers are looking for every way possible to ease the United States into the next round. If anything is going to ruin what has been an otherwise splendid tournament, it's the perception of American favoritism. In all likelihood, home-plate umpire Bob Davidson, a native of Duluth, Minn., was not thinking about the United States, Japan or any other country when he called Tsuyoshi Nishioka out for tagging up too early. He focused on Nishioka's feet, which he saw leave the base before Randy Winn caught the ball and fired home. Davidson was wrong. Not by much. Only frame-by-frame replay showed it definitively. In fact, second-base umpire Brian Knight initially called Nishioka safe on the appeal, and Japan led 4-3 momentarily. Team USA manager Buck Martinez stomped out of the dugout and gave a personal plea to Davidson, who reversed the appeal, which sounds like something that should happen in court, not on a baseball field. No matter the intention, it looked bad. "It's a pity that it was overruled," Japanese manager Sadaharu Oh said. What Oh didn't mention was the true pity: the nationalities of the umpires. Trusting any umpire to make the right call is like trusting the cable guy to be on time, and for WBC organizers to skim over the fact that three of the four umpires in this game are American was ludicrous. Of the 37 umpires available for the tournament, 15 of them are from foreign countries. For the sake of impartiality, there easily could have been an American umpire at one of the corners, a Japanese umpire at the other and two from different countries behind home plate and second base. Instead, it looked bad. Again. And this wasn't the first instance in which Team USA resembled the spoiled child. The Americans received top treatment from the Major League Scouting Bureau, according to a Baseball America story, getting detailed reports on all their opponents. Teams like Mexico, Venezuela and the Dominican Republic were not aware they could use the bureau's scouts. All of this dates back to when the tournament was announced. Commissioner Bud Selig, so proud of the WBC, unveiled the brackets. The doozy: As a member of Pool B, the United States could make the finals without playing a single Latin American team. Not the Dominican Republic and Venezuela, the tournament's favorites. And not Puerto Rico and Cuba, the teams that beat those favorites Sunday. Bad. Very bad. It's understandable that Major League Baseball wants to protect its investment, which rests heavily on Team USA's success. The further the Americans go in the tournament, the more interest it draws stateside. The more interest it draws, the greater the chance of the tournament happening again. A WBC in 2009 means more money for baseball, which, really, was the impetus behind the tournament in the first place. Some of the built-in advantages for Team USA make sense. In order for the first incarnation of the tournament to run smoothly, baseball needed to run the finals in the United States. Hence the home-field advantage, which was certainly apparent on Sunday, even when the fans were booing Alex Rodriguez. By the end of the afternoon, boos turned to cheers and A-Rod from goat to hero. Yet in the ninth inning, before Rodriguez's game-winning, bases-loaded, two-out-in-the-ninth single, you got a distinct feeling that the bang-bang play at third base involving Vernon Wells would have been overturned had Martinez leaned over the dugout railing and wagged his finger Rafael Palmeiro-style. He didn't try that, maybe because he didn't have to. As the WBC progresses, it seems more and more that way. Looking at the quality of the games, the WBC should be classic. It should be Japanese text, which means "the best baseball." Only on Sunday it wasn't that, and it certainly wasn't classic. It was, sadly, typical. Yahoo! Sports' national baseball writer Jeff Passan previously was the national baseball writer for the Kansas City Star.

[Guest holychicken]

]All of this dates back to when the tournament was announced. Commissioner Bud Selig, so proud of the WBC, unveiled the brackets. The doozy: As a member of Pool B, the United States could make the finals without playing a single Latin American team.

This is something I noticed when I first looked at the brackets. US with Canada, Mexico and South Africa to start? Give me a break.

But I disagree that one bad call is going to ruin the tournament. The uproar over it only goes to show how much passion people have for this. And if you watched any of the DR/PR game last night it is clear they have a lot of passion for it as well.

I really think that the WBC is here to stay.

[metirish]

May he forever be known as this....

[Frayed Knot]

]it was because Team America is the HEAVY favorite to win it all, and when you've got one of the weaker (only 1 MLB player on it--fewer than anyone else in round 2) they need every run they can get.

I don't think the USA was a heavy favorite at all.
If you were to build an entire league along strictly nationalistic lines they would be but, with only one squad per country, there's enough depth on the DR, PR, Venz and Japanese teams to make them at least close to as good a bet in the long run as the American team.
I don't get the part about Japan being one of the weaker teams? They have one major-leaguer on this side of the Pacific, but other than that their team is entirely filled with top level pros. This is hardly a David/Goliath thing we got going here.


It was a bad - though very close - call, one which may or may not have altered the course of one game. It happens, let's not take it to the world court.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Nah, you're right, Frayed--I overreacted last night.

I think most consider the USA the heavy favorites--I certainly did. Of course, with Buck Martinez at the helm, that may not be true--no Veritek? No Damon? Silliness.

Pretty much the entire US baseball world--except Bobby V.--thinks that Japan is the equivalent to AAA ball--when they think of Japanese baseball at all.

I tend to agree with you, that Japan is more competitive than that, but we're in a minority.

I was curious, and here were the odds for the WBC from Bettors World at the end of February:
USA: -135
DR: even
Venezuela: +500
Puerto Rico: +750
Japan: +900
Cuba: +1,000

[Willets Point]

What were the odds on the currently undefeated Korea?

[Centerfield]

Here was my problem with the call...when the call was initially given, the runner was called safe. The home plate umpire made no indication he was going to give any call. If he planned on calling him out, he should have overturned it immediately. He didn't. He only did so after Buck Martinez came out and argued. What could Buck have said to change his mind? Did he remind him how many Yankees he had on the team? It was awful. If you are going to make the call, you have to make it right away...and like FK said, you better be damn sure...especially considering it wasn't a bang-bang play at home.

The home plate ump later said he planned on calling him out the whole time. I don't buy that. What would there be to discuss if he planned on calling him out? Wouldn't that discussion not even be necessary? If he's telling the truth, the ump would just wave away Martinez, make the call, and then turn to deal with a fuming Oh coming out of the Japanese dugout.

And to say that the US would have won anyway is clearly wrong. Had the run scored, the inning would have continued...and who knows how many runs Japan would have scored. Of course, we have no idea how the US would have responded in their half of the inning either...point is, to turn a run into an out in a one-run game is huge.

And with respect to the bracket, I didn't realize until this weekend how the WBC had basically assured the US of a spot in the finals. It's ludicrous that the US doesn't play any latin american team until the finals. The US gets Mexico and Korea while the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba and Venezuela are beating up on each other. Unbelievable.

But then again, none of the latin teams had to face the menacing South Africans.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I like to think that if the International Baseball Federation or the International Freakin' Olympic Committee were running this show, the umpires wouldn't be so disporportionately American, particluarly in a game involving the United States.

[Guest sharpie]

These umpiring crews really should be mixed.

[Guest Rotblatt]

You know, the other umpiring issue that hasn't gotten any play at all (justifably, given the magnitude of the reversed call) was Davidson's rather unusual calls on RP Shimizu, who gave up the 2-run shot to Derek Lee.

Shimizu had licked his fingers before 2 pitches to Chipper--both strikes, I believe. Since Shimizu was still on the mound when he licked his fingers, the ump called them balls. Shimizu was clearly confused, and a translator had to come out to explain to him what was up after the second call. He then walked Chipper & gave up a homer to Lee, which tied the game.

Davidson was clearly in the right, but what's unusual is that he bothered to call it. Usually, umps only do shit like that when prompted to by the opposing manager, and in this case, Buck was silent.

It's kind of a bullshit call, although textbook correct, since the pitcher can legally walk off the mound to lick his fingers, meaning all the ump is doing is slowing the game down.

I don't present this as evidence of bias, but as evidence of the rather bizarre umpiring in this game. If all the MLB umps who got fired during the contract negotiations are as arbitrary as Davidson, then I'm glad it happened.

Meanwhile, the Japanese are testy:

]"The crew chief changed the ruling of the closest umpire to the play," Oh said. "I've been involved in baseball for many, many years and I've never ever seen that happen in Japan. "All the umpires should be equal. The opinion of all four should carry the same weight. It is unimaginable that this could happen in the United States, where baseball is so popular and so well-loved." The play was close, and Knight's call was reasonable, but Davidson's sudden change of heart proved Japan's undoing. "That doesn't belong at this level," Oh said.

]One former manager famous for his temper was even more blunt. Senichi Hoshino, now a senior director of the Hanshin Tigers, said: "Any umpire who makes a mistake like that should just quit. It is bush league."

[seawolf17]

I kinda liked how Sadaharu Oh had to wait for his translator to follow him out there to argue with the umpires. I chuckled.

[Frayed Knot]

That 'going-to-your-mouth-while-on-the-mound' call doesn't require an appeal. It's virtually automatic and I've seen umps call that often (well, relatively speaking). Now maybe it's called differently in the far East hence the confusion but I don't know.

I also don't think the brackets were as lopsided as what's being implied here.
Partly things were done with a regional theme in mind: an Asian bracket, a N. Amer, plus two from the Carribean. But also the talent was spread out like a NCAA Hoops bracket where each "good" team coming in had at least one team capable of knocking them off in the 1st round plus a couple of patsies.
Japan & Korea got to beat up on China & Taiwan; and the two "Latin" brackets had Italy, Austrailia, Netherlands, and Panama (not nearly as deep as the other Carib squads) to kick around. You could even argue that the U.S. round was the only one sure to have at least one decent team knocked out early (US, Mex, Can). Yeah, S-Africa was probably the worst of the whole bunch but they get plugged in to the tough slot for the same reason that Albany State is playing Conneticut later this week.

Of the remaining teams are Korea and Mexico somewhat weaker than the anyone from the other side? ... yeah probably, but I doubt it's a huge chasm. And again, dividing things up along regional lines: Asians teams visiting the Pacific coast and all the Latin teams against each other in front of the fans in San Juan, makes too much sense from an interest/attendance standpoint to do it any other way IMO.