Benson -- Julio Redux?

[nymr83]

SI Metman wrote: ="Nymr83"]what stupid fuckin trade, half the fuckin rotation got traded for shit relievers, good job omar. i cant wait for this bastard to get fired I wonder if you'll change your opinion if Omar uses the 14 million in savings on Barry Zito...

so far omar has shown he's an idiot, his only good moves havent been trades they've been spending wilpon's money, something anyone could do. he's going to get Zito? i'll believe it when its done and then put these moves into context, but for now he's just plain stupid

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Frayed Knot wrote: Next thing you'll tell me is that you're more nervous watching your closer in the 9th than you are watching one trot in from someone else's pen. You do realize that you're sliding closer and closer to the lack-of-perspective type of internet fan that you used to make fun of don't you?

I'm trying to be objective here. Mets fans have treated their closers with more ignorant bashing than I've ever seen anywhere. Are Phillies fans as bad? Maybe, though I don't see how. Foulke was screwing up (and screwed up) last season, but the Sox fans' dissatisfaction with him never approached "String-Benitez-up" proportions.

I don't know how to prove a negative. Would you care to demonstrate that every teams' fans are precisely equal in their attitudes towards their team? I need your study calibrated down to sixteen decimal places, please.

I believe there are significant differences in how fans react historically to different problems and options, but I don't know how to support my beliefs. I'm not nearly as sure as you are, though, that this automatically makes me an unwashed boob.

[patchyfogg]

Here's my Carnac bit for a day:

"Remember the Maine"

What did Jim Duquette do when Omar told him he needed a white guy in the trade so that Anna's words wouldn't ring true?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

KC wrote: Sliding closer? He fell off the cliff into the rapids and washed down into the lake below.

I prefer to think of it as the deep end of the 'Pool, KC.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I have to think this is prelude to another deal but...

You could argue Maine is Benson, only younger.

[Guest KC]

Works for me, bret.

[Guest KC]

Not sure where to stick this, but is anyone really all that jazzed up about
the notion of bringing in Zito?

[Guest OlerudOwned]

This wouldn't be so bad to me if not for the Seo trade. God fucking dammit.

[Frayed Knot]

As usual Bret, I seem to be losing track of (and perhaps interest in) your viewpoint(s).

On page 1 you seem to be railing against club mgmt by saying that their moves are so untrustworthy to the point where a constant nervousness and impending sense of disaster roam rampant among the fan base whenever something's about to go down.

Now, on Page 2, the dagger is pointed toward the fans themselves as if the fault lies with them for being too cranky and/or stupid to know the difference anyway.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

KC wrote: Not sure where to stick this, but is anyone really all that jazzed up about the notion of bringing in Zito?

I'm not the biggest Zito fan out there by as long shot but yes, I think it'd be a pretty good idea, and for a couple reasons:

* Right now you could argue the Mets look pretty good as a contender. Add Zito and they'd look pretty good to win a postseason series with Pedro-Glavine-Zito going 1-2-3.

* They seem to be aiming to win those postseason series NOW!!! -- i.e., before Pedro gets too old. They have most of the rest of what they need, as I said.

* A similar strategy (Mikey Dolphinface) tipped the 2000 team -- even though that club was worse offensively & defensively than its predecessor, it went further.

* In addition to being a pretty good lefthanded pitcher, Zito has a brand image that will mean boffo boxoffice for the Mets. Mike & the Dog think he's the grestest pitcher ever. Chix dig him, guys think he's cool, and he could out-endorse Gary Carter circa 1985.

* Getting him in the organization NOW!!!! makes sense considering he'd experience what is prolly gonna be a good team and good crowds, and the chance to reunite with the pitching coach for whom he had the most success. Looking ahead he could see years with Wright & Beltran and a new TV station and a stadium before the end of his next contract, etc etc.... I don't have to tell you Steinbrenners been whacking off for three years awaiting his free agency.

* In the end I sorta feel about Zito the way Bret Sabermetric argued about Delgado -- the guy they could use.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Frayed Knot wrote: As usual Bret, I seem to be losing track of (and perhaps interest in) your viewpoint(s). On page 1 you seem to be railing against club mgmt by saying that their moves are so untrustworthy to the point where a constant nervousness and impending sense of disaster roam rampant among the fan base whenever something's about to go down. Now, on Page 2, the dagger is pointed toward the fans themselves as if the fault lies with them for being too cranky and/or stupid to know the difference anyway.

Yes, it's very complicated. The team and its fans have a symbiotic relationship wherein there occurs a cycle of unusually clueless deals followed by grave concern that turns into confusion and bitterness on the fans' part which is in turn followed by even stupider deals followed by hysteria and gnashing of teeth. At some point in here, there is a sacrificial firing of the GM, and the fans revert briefly to the ritualistic Adoration of the New GM, who then makes a deal so colossally moronic the fans all think "Why us? Why can't we ever catch a break?", followed by a deal that makes the first one one look like the steal of the century, which tends to make even the best fans question their loyalty, until the Mets draft a fireballing kid from Nowhere Flats who has never not struck out a batter in middle school, high school and college, and the fans think "At last! We're genuises," but then the New GM (same as the Old GM) trades him for a pair of Sox, and the wailing begins anew...

The fans are nervous because the management is clueless so to placate them the management makes deals which turn out badly, making the fans more apprehensive than they ought to be...No one is blameless here, although the fans aren't doing this for a living.

[Zvon]

I agree with all youz.
This is lame as it stands now.

This BETTER be part of the ........




wait for it.......



Zito Shuffle.

_____________________________________
Zito whoa-ooo
O mar, one more arm oughta get it
One last trade before we quit it
One more for the road
__________________ Bozvon Skaggs

[nymr83]

] Right now you could argue the Mets look pretty good as a contender

i'd argue that they looked alot stronger 2 weeks ago.
Pedro, Glavine, Traschel, Heilman, Zambrano with Bannister as your 6th starter and Lugo/Sanzhez in the pen doesnt excite me as much as Pedro, SGlavine, Seo, benson, Traschel with Zambrano as the 6th starter and Heilman in the pen.

[Zvon]

I dunno Bret.
Nothing that a Met (management of otherwise) has ever done off the field has made me nervous.
Angry, disillusioned, ballistic (MM'77), and almost every other emotion I can think of ranging from good to bad, but never nervous.

I save my nervousness for the close important games.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

]i'd argue that they looked alot stronger 2 weeks ago. Pedro, Glavine, Traschel, Heilman, Zambrano with Bannister as your 6th starter and Lugo/Sanzhez in the pen doesnt excite me as much as Pedro, SGlavine, Seo, benson, Traschel with Zambrano as the 6th starter and Heilman in the pen.

Possible, which is one reason why I think there's another shoe to drop. Even if it's a guy like Weaver.

If not, looks like Heilman becomes Benson; Maine/Soler becomes Seo; Julio/Sanchez becomes Hernandez/Heilman; and Zambrano remains Zambrano. You've gotten younger and cheaper, if not as steady.

[nymr83]

Seo has produced in the majors in 2 of his 3 seasons while Maine has barely played and Soler hasnt thrown a pitch in the united states.... There had better be "another shoe" waiting to drop.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I'm not jumping off any ledges over this one (Julio is young and throws hard may turn out great and I like the prospect, too), but it does seem unnecessary if there's nothing else to come. It adds another guaranteed contract to an already full bullpen (still full if Heilman moves to the rotation), and as good as Heilman may be, he's still a bit of an uncertainty as a starter.

[Centerfield]

This settles it. I officially hate Omar.

Hard throwers. You know, Kane Davis threw pretty hard too.

[Zvon]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: ..... and as good as Heilman may be, he's still a bit of an uncertainty as a starter.

Well, Heilman did make that statement that he wanted in the rotation. And I liked hearing it, cuz it displayed a confidence I like to see in a pitcher. A readyness.

The time is right and ripe that Heilman has an uncontested slot in the rotation. So I like that factor.

But I saw good things in Benson, and wanted to see what he could do as a Met in '06.
So it goes.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Zvon wrote: The time is right and ripe that Heilman has an uncontested slot in the rotation.

Sounds like the cue for Heilman's exit.


Meanwhile, Ed Coleman is all but calling himself a spineless, craven asskissing nincompoop. He's describing this trade on WFAN as being carefully designed to protect the Mets' shamefully weak starting rotation who are to a man incapable of going more than six strong innings, and are old besides--as if that's a good reason to swap out two-thirds of the youngest half of your starting pitchers. Staunchly refusing to criticize the team for any specific deals, the Eunuch does admit that "some of these trades puzzle" him, although he's explained and rationalized the Mets' brillliant thinking behind them all. He did admit that he doesn't think much of Jeff Weaver as a possible replacement for Benson, but admitted further --he SAID this, I'm not making it up--that if the Mets did acquire Weaver he would learn to like him. How the fuck does your acquisition of a shitty ballplayer make him into a good ballplayer? Weaver is what he is. Talk about rooting for the laundry.

I've been called a fair-weather fan today, but there must be a term of approbation for what the Eunuch is (other than flaming asshole). He'll learn to like Weaver, if he becomes a Met. If that don't say it all about the quality of objective and useful analysis you get out of Ed Coleman...

OE: cleaned up grammar, added a few "fuck"s for emphasis and clarity.

[Zvon]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I've been called a fair-weather fan today, but there must be a term of approbation for what the Eunuch is (other than flaming asshole).

lmao.

[Elster88]

I was waiting for convincing evidence that Omar was an idiot. I think I've found it.

Look at it this way.

Would you have made a trade of Cameron, Seo and Benson for Julio, Sanchez, and Nady???


OF COURSE NOT. SO WHY IS DOING IT SEPERATELY OKAY?!?!?


Bret, when does the next bus leave for Boston?

[metirish]

Bret to be fair to Ed Coleman, he's a total bollox, Jeff fucking Weaver?, no way Jose or Omar, I heard Omar on the news tonight, I hate hearing him talk bullshit about power arms....

[Elster88]

Recommendation: Do not come home drunk and go to the CPF looking for news when it's possible a stupid trade was made that day. If anyone else wants a piece of Omar I'm beating him down in the Red Light Forum.

[Elster88]

The Mets traded Wigginton, Peterson and Huber for Jorge Julio.

[metirish]

Jesus Elster I hadn't thought about the trade like that, it makes it look even worse, although Duke must love Benson or maybe he has a thing for Anna....

[Guest sharpie]

Elster, you forgot Maine.

Why is anyone still pining for Wigginton at this late date?

Also, we did get a year and change outta Benson. Who I'm not all that sorry to be rid of.

This smacks so much of a Zito trade that it almost isn't worth talking about this til all is said and done.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I don't really like this trade, but at least the media reports of Hurricane Anna will be pretty amusing over the next few days.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Would you have made a trade of Cameron, Seo and Benson for Julio, Sanchez, and Nady???

There are other people involved.

]The Mets traded Wigginton, Peterson and Huber for Jorge Julio.

There are other people involved here also.

They also got some value out of Benson before flipping him.

[Elster88]

No one is pining for Wigginton. Except maybe Bret? He was recently.

I realize we got some value out of Benson. He helped us to a middle of the pack finish and a last place finish.