Mets get LoDuca

[MFS62]

Don't keep us in suspense. Who is the second player?

Later

[TransMonk]

Nymr83:

I still am in favor of the deal.

While batting average does not a player make, I was merely pointing out that LoDuca has been consistent over his career with his batting average. He will not hit as many HRs as Piazza or Hernandez or Molina, but he will hit for average and drive in 60 -70 runs hitting in the #6 or #7 slot in the lineup...which is something that Castro or Piazza could not do next year in the same spot. So, yes, he is an upgrade over what the Mets had last year and what they were going to get next year had they signed nobody.

I would have been excited with the younger Ramon Hernandez had the Mets signed him, but the offer was there and he didn't bite and I'd rather eat Castro's game soiled jock strap than watch him be the full time Mets catcher. As for re-signing Piazza, I never heard any deal being offered by either party so that is a mute point. LoDuca has averaged more RBI's than Piazza over the past 4 years anyway, even though Piazza has hit over 4 times the HRs. OPS is a neat stat, but driving in more runs than your opponent is how ballgames, and ultimately championships, are won...LoDuca has averaged more RBI over the past 4 years than Hernandez for that matter.

As for him being a 3 time All-Star, there is a little more to it than Joe Girardi's token trip. (Although, Joe Girardi has more rings than LoDuca, Piazza, Castro, Hernandez and Molina combined so correlations are up to interpretations). He is a solid player chosen by three different managers to represent his league as an elite player at his position. All star jerseys do not add up to rings, but if being selected had no baring on a player's merit than they would let the idiotic fans choose all of the players.

In all, were there slightly better catchers out there? Yes. Better by a huge margin? You're kidding yourself. And it's not as if deals weren't offered. We have holes to fill this winter and we did what we had to do to get one more filled. And I can think of dozens of worse catchers that Omar could have gotten to fill the hole. I'll stick with LoDuca.

[Valadius]

Omar is insane.

He has been quoted as saying he views Lo Duca as a #2 hitter.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Valadius wrote: Omar is insane. He has been quoted as saying he views Lo Duca as a #2 hitter.

Omar is a puzzling man,

[Guest heep]

But he is doing a good job.

[Guest Edgy DC]

RBIs are a team stat. Healthy guys in good lineups tend to get them, not clutch hitters.

That said, Piazza and Castro had 103 between them, so I'm puzzled as to why 60-70 would be beyond their reach. Even taking away Piazza's handful of ribbies as a pinch-hitter/designated hitter, the Mets had more RBI from their catching slot than all but one National League team.

1 Cincinnati 101
2 NY Mets 99
3 San Diego 89
4 Chicago Cubs 85
5 Pittsburgh 81
6 Philadelphia 70
7 St. Louis 70
8 Colorado 68
9 Atlanta 67
10 San Francisco 67
11 Florida 66
12 Milwaukee 65
13 Washington 65
14 LA Dodgers 62
15 Houston 61
16 Arizona 44

[Centerfield]

To expand on the above:

Minaya envisions the three-time All-Star as a No. 2 hitter. Lo Duca, who turns 34 in April, batted .283 last season with six homers and 57 RBI.

"He makes contact. We wanted to get more guys to make contract. We struck out too much last year," Minaya said. "This guy's a gamer. This guy's a guy that is going to give you that leadership quality, not only on the field but also in the clubhouse."

Obviously Omar thinks we didn't hit into enough double plays last year. Perhaps the only thing dumber than trading for an old, expensive catcher who doesn't hit for power and doesn't walk, would be to slot him in front of Beltran thereby taking away any chance he could steal.

[Elster88]

Luckily Omar doesn't make the starting lineup.

Unluckily, keeping your old catcher out of the #2 hole is a concept you want your GM to be able to grasp.

[Elster88]

]Florida gets two players to be named from the Mets, and the players won't be announced until after Thursday's winter meeting draft. Officials familiar with the trade have identified one as 19-year-old right-hander Gaby Hernandez.

Maybe Gaby isn't for sure yet?

espn.com article

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

There evidently isn't any scratch involved, so perhaps it is someone else. But I doubt it.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Washed-up homer Marty Noble's take:

Mets fan Lo Duca eager to help team
12/05/2005 7:43 PM ET
By Marty Noble / MLB.com

DALLAS -- A baseball glove was hurled skyward in Queens as midnight approached on Oct. 27, 1986, and a few New York seconds later -- as long as it took for the television signal to reach Phoenix -- a 14-year-old transplanted Brooklynite transformed his bed into a trampoline. Jesse Orosco celebrated the Mets' World Series championship on the East Coast, and Paul Lo Duca did likewise in the desert.

Another 20 years almost will have passed the next time another World Series is celebrated. And Lo Duca, a Mets fan of long standing, would like to be significantly more involved in the celebration. He'd prefer to experience the moment firsthand -- or first glove, as it were -- as a matter of fact. It's on his to-do list now that the veteran catcher is in position to catch the deepest rotation in the National League East and take swings in the most improved batting order in the league.

A day after the Mets completed their trade with the Marlins -- they acknowledged the deal Monday afternoon, some 22 hours after word of it had leaked -- Lo Duca wouldn't be so presumptuous as to predict the Mets would be play in the World Series. But he was so confident about the Mets' chances that he said, "I'll be disappointed if we don't win the NL East."

He noted the acquisitions of Carlos Delgado and Billy Wagner, of course, and spoke of catching potential Hall of Famers Tom Glavine and Pedro Martinez. As he spoke on a conference call with reporters, almost every word supported his first remark -- "I'm excited."

The Mets are as well. The Winter Meetings hadn't begun officially, and the club already had accomplished much of what it had hoped to do.

"When the offseason began, we had three main priorities -- to fortify our bullpen, add an impact, middle-of-the-lineup presence and solidify our catching," general manager Omar Minaya said. "We feel we have addressed those needs with Billy Wagner, Carlos Delgado and now, Paul Lo Duca."

And then Minaya added this footnote -- or was it a warning?

"We are not done trying to improve this club," he said.

Not done, but according to a member of the Mets contingent here for the annual convention, none of what remains on the Minaya's agenda is the magnitude of any of the three moves already made.

"It's more than fine-tuning, but nothing like getting a player who's going to contribute everyday," the source said.

Without saying the words, the source essentially reinforced what several members of the club's hierarchy have said since before Delgado was acquired -- the Mets have next to no interest in acquiring Manny Ramirez in the circumstances that currently exist.

"If they come to us in February," another executive said last week, emphasizing the Red Sox would have to take the initiative, "and they're not asking for [Lastings] Milledge or [Aaron] Heilman, and they're willing to pay some of what [Ramirez] is owed, then we'd listen."

Remarks made by Minaya on Monday certainly didn't contradict that sentiment.

"I'm very comfortable with the team we have right now," the general manager said more than once and in more than one way. He said the payroll "could" be increased, but at the same time he said it was "very doubtful" the club would import a second baseman -- via free agency or trade -- and he noted that finances were considered in dealing for Lo Duca. Moreover, a source outside the organization suggested the Mets were intent on moving Kris Benson, not only in exchange for a player they covet but also for payroll considerations.

Minaya acknowledged that the Mets' sense of the situation was that either one of the two high-profile catchers -- Ramon Martinez and Bengie Molina -- would have cost them more in dollars and in years of financial obligation than dealing for Lo Duca, who is to earn $6.25 million each of the next two years. He considered Lo Duca "a better option" for other reasons as well, not the least of which is his ability to make contact. Minaya said making out the lineup is manager Willie Randolph's job, but he twice referred to Lo Duca as a No. 2 hitter.

Dealing Benson could help the Mets address their two remaining objectives -- an eighth-inning setup reliever and an upgrade for the rotation. The club had targeted Tom Gordon to set up for Wagner, but the Phillies, in need of a strikeout closer for their small park once Wagner accepted the Mets' offer, removed him from the market.

The Mets' negotiations with free agent Roberto Hernandez, who filled their eighth-inning role last season, are not progressing. And one of their contingent indicated Monday that the role is more likely to be filed via trade.

Alan Hendricks, the agent representing Hernandez, said that "three or four" clubs have outbid the Mets at this point, but called New York "the preferred place to be" for his client, a native son. "I hope they're not depending on that," Hendricks said.

Benson could be moved to bring in another starter, Javier Vazquez, the former Expos and Yankees pitcher who had demanded a trade from the Diamondbacks.

Martinez's large right toe, a problem last season, became a topic of discussion Monday in terms of Martinez's desire to pitch in the World Baseball Classic. Minaya acknowledged pain and concern still exist. That concern could prompt the Mets to look harder at a deal for Vazquez. The Diamondbacks acknowledged Monday that the Mets are one of "eight or nine" clubs that have expressed interest in Vazquez.

The Mets might be saving money where they can to be in better position to assume the obligation of Vazquez's contract. The contract Vazquez signed when he was with the Yankees guarantees him $24 million over the next two years. Benson is to earn $7.5 million each of the next two years and has a $500,000 buyout for 2008.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Zvon]

CBSsportsline:

]Florida gets two players to be named from the Mets, and the players won't be announced until after Thursday's winter meeting draft. Officials familiar with the trade have identified one as 19-year-old right-hander Gaby Hernandez. Hernandez, a 19-year-old right-hander, was 6-1 with a 2.43 ERA for Class-A Hagerstown of the South Atlantic League, then went 2-5 with a 5.74 ERA for Class-A St. Lucie of the Florida State League. He had a combined 131 strikeouts in 135 innings. Lo Duca is owed $6.25 million in each of the next two seasons, which will be paid by the Mets, and Florida remains responsible for the final $1 million of his signing bonus, which is due to be paid Nov. 30, 2008.

The article also includes Minaya's 2nd slot quote, and I agree thats crazy.
If Randolf bats Lo Duca 2nd Ill eat my 1986 Met 25th anniversary hat.
........I love that hat.

Id rather see freakin Beltran batting there.
And if we do land Manny, I would think thats where Beltran will bat opening day. (think about it... )
And if we dont, Wright even.
Or whoever ends up playing second, if the guy has some speed and good contact.

But LoDuca dont bat second. Seventh at best.

[Frayed Knot]

"Don't keep us in suspense. Who is the second player?"

The Mets are finally acknowledging the deal but have only said it's for 2 players to be named. They've yet to admit that Gaby is one of them much less who the 2nd is.

LoDuca has batted 2nd in the past. It's not surprising to see him mentioned there. As mentioned before, he's not slow and if he gets on base at a decent clip he'd be OK there.
I also don't have a problem moving Beltran to 2nd, but it seems like a sizable contingent of Met fans have gotten it into their heads that the #2 slot is destined to be some sort of panacea for Beltran - as if the batting slot should dictate his hitting rather than the other way around - and the idea seems to have sprung from his time in Houston. Thing is, until post-season rolled around, he really didn't hit a ton in the Astros lineup and he was only slotted there because Bagwell & Berkman were already established as the 3 & 4 guys.

[Guest Rotblatt]

LoDuca batting second is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Didn't Minaya say the exact same shit about Cairo--contact hitter, intangibles, blah blah blah--and we all saw how that turned out.

ARGH!!!

I'm not saying that LoDuca's going to suck for us, but batting him second is retarded.

The worst part is that Willie's probably nodding his fucking head, saying, "Of course he should bat second!"

Well, for all those people who were worried about our #6-#8 next year, you can stop now, cause it sounds like there's a decent chance Wright will be #6. Again.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Wright in 2005 batted 5th more than anywhere else:

David Wright's batting order position in games in which he was in the starting lineup.
2004: 2nd, 1 game. 3rd, 18 games. 5th, 13 games. 6th, 22 games. 7th, 11 games. 8th, 3 games.
2005: 2nd, 3 games. 3rd, 4 games. 4th, 3 games. 5th, 76 games. 6th, 34 games. 7th, 40 games.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Take It Easy.

Miguel Cairo has nothing to do with Paul Lo Duca.

[Elster88]

]The worst part is that Willie's probably nodding his fucking head, saying, "Of course he should bat second!"

And we don't know this for sure either. Willie doesn't seem to dance to Omar's tune, in my eyes, though Willie's own tune could use some tuning.

[Centerfield]

Um, am I the only one freaking out over the fact that Pedro's big toe still hurts?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Does it?

I wasn't aware of that.

That's not good. It is another two months until spring training, but he's already had more than two months to rest it.

Yeesh.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we leave Dallas with another starting pitcher, whether Vazquez or Zito or whomever.

[RealityChuck]

Logically, the second player would seem to be someone affected by the Rule V draft, since they're waiting until after that to announce it. The two options are:

1. It's a player eligible for the draft.
2. It's a player not eligible for the draft, but who would be replacing any drafted pitcher.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Well, sure, Yance, but that was before we got Delgado, and he STILL spent over 46% of his time batting 6th or 7th.

Given how inept Willie proved at setting the lineup last year, I wouldn't be suprised to see him view Reyes, LoDuca, Beltran, Delgado & Floyd as guys who should bat before Wright.

After all, he thought that Reyes, Cairo/Cameron/Matsui, Beltran & Floyd should all bat in front of Wright--even at the end of the year--when Wright was clearly the best hitter on our team.

It's not really worth getting upset about at this point, but hearing Omar say that he viewed Lo Duca as a #2 guy called to mind all the stupid, shitty moves Willie made throughout the year.

[nymr83]

]but he will hit for average and drive in 60 -70 runs hitting in the #6 or #7 slot in the lineup...which is something that Castro or Piazza could not do next year in the same spot. So, yes, he is an upgrade over what the Mets had last year and what they were going to get next year had they signed nobody.

are you actually claiming LoDuca is a better hitter than Piazza, even now?

Piazza's OPS+ ('03-'05) 124, 108, 103
Loduca's OPS+ ('03-'05) 92, 99, 92
Castro's OPS+ is 80 career and was 97 last year, (it was insanely high in '03 and insanely low in '04 thanks to small sample sizes.)

Piazza is still clearly the better hitter and i'm not sold that LoDuca is some kind of upgrade as a fielder either.

as for batting LoDuca second, anyone who tries that should be fired. he has OBPs in the .330's each of the last 3 years, the idea is to get the hell on base for Delgado, Wright, and Floyd, not to bunt Reyes over to 2nd (especially when he can get there on his own.)

[Centerfield]

Good post 83.

[metirish]

]Um, am I the only one freaking out over the fact that Pedro's big toe still hurts?

I can't find it and I don't remember where I read it but the Mets have had a recent meeting with Pedro regarding his big toe and the WBC........

[Centerfield]

It's in Marty Noble's article from the previous page.

[metirish]

yes it is....doh...

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm gonna volunteer my leadership
to this platoon. An Army without leaders is like a foot...without a big toe. And Sergeant Hulka isn't always gonna be there... to be that big toe for us.

I think that we owe a big round of applause... to our newest, bestest buddy... and big toe... Sergeant Hulka.

[TransMonk]

Are you actually claiming LoDuca is a better hitter than Piazza, even now?

No. But I believe LoDuca will help this club win more in 2006 than Piazza would if we brought him back to catch full time. I think Piazza will make a good DH for a couple more years, but his days as a catcher are over. If that were not true than I'm sure Omar would have at least offered a deal.

I agree that LoDuca batting second is a lame idea.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

TransMonk wrote: Are you actually claiming LoDuca is a better hitter than Piazza, even now? No. But I believe LoDuca will help this club win more in 2006 than Piazza would if we brought him back to catch full time. I think Piazza will make a good DH for a couple more years, but his days as a catcher are over. If that were not true than I'm sure Omar would have at least offered a deal. I agree that LoDuca batting second is a lame idea.

I cant help but ignore the conversation and point out you have an awesome avatar.