Mets Deal Cameron to San Diego

[MFS62]

Rockin' Doc wrote: Well, at least now when Vic goes to a game at Shea and starts yelling, "Go, Nads!" everyone won't think he's crazy.

nice,

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

Xavier Nady's first appearence in a Mets box score was Jesse Orosco's last.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here's Marty Noble's (and Lyle Spencer's) take:

Mets, Padres near Cameron-Nady deal
11/16/2005 6:04 PM ET
By Marty Noble and Lyle Spencer / MLB.com

NEW YORK -- If tests show Mike Cameron has no lingering vision problems resulting from that sickening outfield collision he had with Carlos Beltran in August, he will playing center field in PETCO Park in San Diego next season, the site of the collision that caused him to miss the final six weeks of the Mets season.

The Mets and Padres have agreed to an exchange of players that will move Cameron from right field in Shea Stadium to center field, his preferred position, in San Diego and move versatile right-handed hitter Xavier Nady to the Mets to play right field and/or first base. A source familiar with the Mets' thinking confirmed the trade Tuesday and said it was conditional, pending the eye exam for Cameron.

Cameron had suffered blurry vision at times following the collision and the surgery he underwent to reconstruct his face. He had suffered broken cheeks and a broken nose when he and Beltran collided in right center field pursuing a line drive Aug. 11. The multiple fractures Cameron suffered have healed completely, but he still is suffering headaches that resulted from the collision.

Cameron, who will be 33 on Jan. 8, batted .273 with 12 homers and 39 RBIs in 308 at-bats in '05, after missing the opening month recovering from wrist surgery. He's a .249 career hitter with 173 homers and 625 RBIs, with a .340 on-base percentage and .442 slugging percentage.

His best season was 2001, when he batted .267 with 25 homers and 110 RBIs for the Mariners.

Critical to the Padres' plans, Cameron has few peers in center field, having won Gold Gloves in 2001 and 2003 with the Mariners. He is the whole package defensively, and the club feels an improved defensive outfield, anchored by Cameron, could save the pitching staff about a half-run a game.

Dave Roberts, who played center last season, is expected to be shifted to left field, with Ryan Klesko moving to first base.

In Nady, the Mets would add a versatile performer capable of handling first base and all three outfield positions. Nady, who turned 27 on Monday, batted .261 with 13 homers and 43 RBIs in 124 games in '05, with a .439 slugging average and .321 on-base percentage.

In 269 career games, Nady has batted .263 with 25 homers and 91 RBIs in 775 at-bats. He never found a regular job with the Padres, reduced to part-time duty by manager Bruce Bochy by his inability to consistently hit right-handed pitching.

Nady batted .223 against right-handers in '05, but 10 of his 13 homers came against righties. He batted .323 against lefties. His '05 highlights featured homers in four consecutive games from June 24-27, and a game-winning grand slam in Atlanta on Aug. 20.

[Valadius]

Yeah... we shouldn't be jumping the gun on this.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Prospectus on on Nady:

Breakout 18%; Improve 37%; Collapse 39%, but take into account these projections also consider projected PT as they wrote:

]Having played some third base at Cal, the Padres had Nady man the hot corner this offseason at instructional league, hoping to find ways to get more use out of him. In a park that favors right handed pull hitters, Nady could be a much cheaper replacement for Klesko in left, minus some OBP, plus ample defense and power. But no-trade clauses handed Klesko and Nevin keep tripping up the Padres, and will continue to do so through 06. With the Padres in desperate need of better outfield speed and defense and Nady and other hitters blocked the situation's a bit painful.

They pegged him for equivalent average of 256 and Cameron for 257. VORP 13.8 vs. Cammy's 27.

Actual results:
Nady 269 EQA, 13.6 VORP
Cammy 284 EQA; 22.5 VORP

[metirish]

I don't like this deal, I've been thinking about it and IMO Nady is nothing more than a few steps above being a bench player...

[nymr83]

metirish wrote: I don't like this deal, I've been thinking about it and IMO Nady is nothing more than a few steps above being a bench player...

i'd argue then when you take cammy's CF defense out of the equation he isn't really much better, if better at all. i'd love to play cameron in CF but the mets obviously arent going that way so they might as well trade him for a guy who is an equal hitter, can play 1b/rf (which they need), and is alot cheaper and will hopefully let them spend more on something else.

[smg58]

This deal was made first and foremost to free salary. It's value depends not so much on Nady, but on how the Mets spend the extra money. I hope this puts the Mets in the hunt for Brian Giles.

Since Nady and Diaz are basically equivalent players (righty OF/1B with some upside), I would be surprised if both report to Port St. Lucie in February. If a team is offering the Mets something Minaya wants for a package that includes Diaz, the Mets would need a righty reserve bat for first base and/or the outfield. With Nady (assuming the reports are accurate), that role is filled pretty well.

[Frayed Knot]

If you were Chris Carpenter
and I were Xavier Nady
would you pitch to me anyway
or would you walk me baby?

Sorry, I heard that song earlier tonight ... it was in my head.

]Is Nady even arb-eligible yet?

I don't think so but I'm not positive.
He had mostly full seasons in '03 & '05 (so call that 2 complete) but only 1 AB in '02 (Sept call-up) & just 77 ABs in '04. So as long as he spent the rest of '04 de-moted to the minors rather than "de-elled" from the majors than he gets little service credit and would just be a '2-year +' guy and not arb eligible until next year.




Nady's seen time at all 3 OF positions so far, plus 1st & 3rd (his college position) so it sounds like we can get him enough playing time. At 1st platooning w/Jacobs, in RF with Diaz, as a righty to give Cliff a day off, plus prolly the only legit backup CF.



Looking through some old 'Baseball Prospectus' handbooks, I see they loved him in '03 but were ready to re-evaluate in '04. Hadn't progressed enough to fill his promise once beyond the lower minors they thought ... not an uncommon thing with prospects.


The bit I've heard from WFAN land is just what I suspected.
Met fans are great at saying 'trade 'em all for prospects' or 'play the kids' ... until it actually happens when they say; 'not THAT prospect!'
Most callers seem to think Cammy was going to net us Manny or Soriano -- and the rest are already inventing trades packaging Nady for someone else.
Mad Dog was adamant that we should have gotten Osutka, mainly because he's under the impression that;
a) our bullpen is a mess (it isn't)
and
that Osutka would be a major upgrade (selective reasoning)

[metirish]

All good points guys ,I'm just not that hot for Nady, I'll be surprised if he's a Mets player for very long,Omar will surely look to send him with others to either Tampa for Baez/Huff or do that and send all to Boston...

smg58, I just read that Torre has been calling Giles to no avail,apparently they want him for CF....so says the times..

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think this is primarily about dumping salary. I suspect the Mets like Nady.

[nymr83]

i like Nady too...as compared to a Cameron not playing CF.
this isn't a blockbuster but not every trade has to be, it is a positive move for the team in several small ways though.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Nady may not be as fungible as some suspect, per the SD papers:

]Nady's contract also concerned the Padres. Per a deal struck by agent Scott Boras after the Padres drafted him out of Cal in 2000, Nady received $1.138 million this year, far more than most players who have yet to qualify for arbitration. Drawing extra income for every 30 days he spent on the 25-man roster, Nady added $650,000 to his $488,000 salary.

[MFS62]

Its still a net salary gain of almost $6 mil.

And two guys at the Daily News think the money saved will be reinvested by Omar.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/366431p-311949c.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/366430p-311948c.html

Later

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

I like this trade if it makes them more comfortable with giving Jacobs the 1B job. Nady is decent major league bat if Jacobs proves to be a total failure, and a good part time right handed bat if Jacobs does well.

My guess is that the extra salary space from this deal will help Omar come up with a trade of Diaz and pitching for a high salaried veteran OF not named Manny Ramirez.

Another guess is that it won't be long before Sammy Sosa's name pops up in Met rumors. I am not advocating, just guessing that it will come up now that RF is oficially up for grabs.

[Elster88]

86-Dreamer wrote: Another guess is that it won't be long before Sammy Sosa's name pops up in Met rumors. I am not advocating, just guessing that it will come up now that RF is oficially up for grabs.

I have been happy with Omar to date. I'm guessing he will not pursue Sosa.

Although.....would it be to terrible to have him on the bench if he's very, very cheap? He could play the role Mike doesn't seem to want to embrace, the menacing figure in the on-deck circle with a (corked) bat in hand. He could even hold a needle to pretend he's still on the juice.

[Elster88]

Nymr83 wrote: i'd argue then when you take cammy's CF defense out of the equation he isn't really much better, if better at all. i'd love to play cameron in CF but the mets obviously arent going that way so they might as well trade him for a guy who is an equal hitter, can play 1b/rf (which they need), and is alot cheaper and will hopefully let them spend more on something else.

Defense in right doesn't mean anything? Cammy played an incredible right field last year.

If they have equal bats, keep the guy who is great in right field and find someone else to play first.

I think this trade is pretty obviously designed as the beginning to operation go after Manny.

If it's not, then Irish is right. Unless they 100% know he will develop into something more, Nady is one step up from a bench player. A great defensive outfielder traded for a bench player. Not good.

[Frayed Knot]

]Nady is one step up from a bench player.

Or maybe he's a top-notch college & minor league player who's at the right age (27 as of the other day) to fufill his promise if given regular ABs.
Funny how many fans are in love with the idea of handing Jacobs and/or Hernandez/Keppinger starting jobs but leery about doing the same for the much more highly touted Nady. Yeah, Jacobs is 2 years younger, got a great first 100 ABs under his belt, and at least holds a promise of catching now and then -- but I'm not sure that all makes him any less likely to fall on his face than the X-man.

[Guest silverdsl]

So how bad are Cameron's headaches and blurred vision? Is it something that could cause him not to pass the physical? I haven't kept up on how his recovery has gone and for his sake I hope those are minor issues becuase regardless of whether he goes to the Padres or stays with the Mets I'd hate for his career to be derailed by that scary collision.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Weird. I expected Nady to have some serious Home/Away splits since PETCO is such a pitchers park, but he doesn't at all. In fact, he's been better at PETCO than away from it--.744 OPS to .722 OPS.

FWIW, he's had 21 plate appearances at Shea, with 8 hits, including a HR, a walk & 3 strike outs--.400 AVG/.429 OBP/.550 SLG/.979 OPS.

He doesn't work the count much at all--he's averaged 3.56 P/PA throughout his career--and he's a groundball hitter (1.58 for his career--the MLB average last year was 1.30). However, he doesn't ground into many double plays--only 5 in 326 AB last year. Despite his ground ball tendencies, he's got good power. Over the past two years, he's averaged 25 PA/HR, so if we trotted him up there 600 times, we'd get 24 dingers.

I'm guessing he only tries to hit home runs when he sees a mistake. I like that. He struck out in around 20.5% of his at bats last year, which was a little high for him. As I mentioned before, he doesn't walk a lot, but he's improved since 2003.

His EQA has risen from .257 in 2003 to .270 in 2005.

Defensively, ESPN targets him as a first baseman. He earned 1.2 fielding win shares last year. BP's rated him as an average 1B, a marginally below average LF (-1 RAA2 in 05 in 26 games), a bad CF (-6 RAA2 in 30 games) & a below-average RF (-2 RAA2 in 13 games--he had -5 in 2003 over 105 games).

[smg58]

When the thread about lefty/righty splits at ballparks came out (this was in July I think), I remember checking the site and seeing that Petco was bad in general but far more so for lefties. So Nady's home/road splits might not necessarily be that flukish. Bringing in a righty bat with 30 HR potential even in unfriendly parks makes sense for the Padres, as counting on Giles and Klesko for power in that park just wasn't working. Klesko is now free to play his best defensive position (first base), but the Padres still have glaring holes in the corners of their outfield.

[Guest Edgy DC]

If Cammy still has it, that centerfield at WhateverHappenedtoJackMurphy Stadium will be a great showcase for him.

This Padre team is really in a flux, and has a lot of work to do this offseason.

[duan]

i'm just disappointed that we didn't think about trying to tap texas us for Kevin Mench rather then San Diego for Nady.

I'm 'not sure' about it as a move, I loved having Mike Cameron, but it is true that he was sub-optimally used at RF. I think Nady's a good bet to have an EQA comparable to Cameron's in 2006 - you probably lose a little defense - though BP's report on Cameron's defense in RF was a little below average.

[smg58]

Could any of you with ESPN.com Insider please provide the gist of Buster Olney's article concerning the Cameron deal?

[Valadius]

Yeah, someone help us out!

[metirish]

Here you go guys....

] Cameron for Nady ... really?posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 | Feedback When the offseason dust settles and pitchers and catchers report to spring training in mid-February, a common refrain will be that the Mets had the best offseason of any team in the majors. They are in a commanding position to sign Billy Wagner to be their closer, they inevitably will land whoever they think is the best catcher on the market, and they will add a big-time bat this winter, whether it's Manny Ramirez or perhaps Carlos Delgado or somebody else. It's as if Omar Minaya has $10,000 to spend on a couple of new suits: No matter what he does, he's almost certain to look good with the new duds. All that said, I don't get the Mike Cameron for Xavier Nady trade. And some of Minaya's peers around baseball don't get it, either. It's a terrible deal. I wish I could tell you what Minaya was thinking, precisely, but he has begun to develop a Dan Duquette-like habit of failing to return phone calls. Without Minaya filling in the blanks for himself, I've been sitting here trying to understand how it is that in a market starved for good center fielders -- and Cameron is a great center fielder -- he settled for a player who has demonstrated all the signs of being a journeyman. Some possible rationales: • Maybe another team dangling a heavy hitter -- the Red Sox, perhaps -- told Minaya they wanted Nady, specifically. • Maybe the Mets ownership insisted that Minaya make sure he got Cameron's contract off the books before offers were made to Wagner, Ramon Hernandez, etc. • Maybe Minaya really sees something in Nady that others don't see, as a possible platoon partner with Mike Jacobs at first base, or as a corner outfielder. But the problem is that no matter what the reason was for making this deal right now, the Mets could have and should have done better, because Cameron simply has more value in the current market than Nady. "I heard they were talking about that, but I couldn't believe it was true," an executive with another team said. "Now I wish I had called and offered to make a deal for him and then moved him to another team, because you could've gotten a lot more for him." The executive pointed out that Cameron had "a perfect storm" of value: • He is a solid veteran player with a unique ability (center field defense), and a time when there is a dearth of quality center fielders in the big leagues. Teams like the Padres, Yankees, Rangers, Cubs and Dodgers went into the winter knowing they probably would have to land a center fielder. • The free-agent market stinks, and teams are looking to deal for help, rather than overpay a free agent. • Cameron has cost certainty, with just one year remaining on his current deal, at $6.5 million. And unless he gets hurt, you can rest assured that he will have value in trade next June or July. Nady hit well against left-handers last season, batting .323. But let's face it, the Padres are dying for offense, they're about to lose Brian Giles, and they are willing to deal a guy they drafted and developed; that should tell you something. And while Nady is five years younger than Cameron, and is now 27 years old, we recall past words of Bobby Valentine: A major leaguer who is hitting well at 21 or 22 years old, that's a good young player, someone who can be expected to develop into something much more than he is. Nady, at 27, is not a young player anymore. He's had playing time in four different big-league seasons and has yet to establish himself as an everyday player. In the year that Cameron turned 27, he already had three seasons of 141 or more games. Nady has never played in more than 124 games in any season, and 269 games in all, and he's got a lifetime average of .263, and an on-base percentage of .320. When you heard the flip side of the deal yesterday -- Mike Cameron for ... -- you kept waiting for more names to be added. The Mets will be fine, with more big deals to come. But this was a missed opportunity. And with the Padres probably facing a rough season ahead, they will be poised to deal Cameron by mid-summer. Let's open the speculation right now: There is at least a 50-50 chance Cameron will finish the 2006 season as the center fielder in The Bronx. Adam Rubin adds some detail to the Mets' machinations. John Harper also weighs the merits of the deal. • Speaking of outfielders with market value, there is mounting speculation the Mariners might trade Ichiro; Bob Finnigan addresses the speculation. • Billy Wagner tells the Philadelphia Inquirer that he's very optimistic about his negotiations with the Phillies. Sounds like the Phillies are holding off firing their last bullet in the Billy Wagner negotiations, which is smart. If they had thrown out their best offer last night, then Wagner could have taken that to the Mets, who would have inevitably countered with a bigger deal. This way, the Mets will have to bid first, and the Phillies are still in a position to respond. No matter what happens, however, the final offers figure to put Wagner in a tough spot: He'll probably have to leave about $10 million on the table if he's going to walk away from the Phillies, and that won't be easy to do. • The Mets are setting up a fallback position in case Wagner doesn't sign with them, talking to B.J. Ryan. • Joe Torre has reached out to free-agent outfielder Brian Giles. • The is Nationals-D.C. thing currently a quagmire. The Nationals met with A.J. Burnett. • Jim Beattie might be emerging as the front-runner in Boston. • Joe Maddon is working on rounding out his coaching staff. • Mark Krieger writes that in the steroid wars, the cheaters are ahead and gaining ground. If you get caught now, Nick Canepa writes, you are an idiot. • The Rockies are looking at Jose Mesa. • Ned Colletti charmed the room in his first day on the job, writes Bill Plaschke. T.J. Simers is similarly wooed. Jim Fregosi says he's willing and able to be the next Dodgers manager. Colletti says there is work to do before the Dodgers are leading contenders. Kim Ng says she'll learn from the experience, after being passed over. • The Yankees are in a wait-and-see mode on Bernie Williams. • Geoff Blum rejoins the Padres.

[Zvon]

IIl miss Cammy.
Having missed the last 6 weeks of the season and still suffering effects of the collision, his value has been played at a sub par level.

I think this deal has to be about salary flexibility.

If we end up with Nady when the dust settles, he'll fill a need.
And the dust wont settle until Omars done dealin.

[Guest KC]

>>>I wish I could tell you what Minaya was thinking, precisely, but he has begun to develop a Dan Duquette-like habit of failing to return phone calls.<<<

I generally enjoy Buster's stuff, but lines like this make me laugh. Everyone
is not entitled to know exactly what the GM of a team is thinking - and it
doesn't need to be broadcasted to the media a day after a deal goes down
just so they have something to write the next day or day after.

The sports world moves too fast sometimes for my taste ... freakin' WFAN
and that dang internet thingy.

[nymr83]

i agree, telling everyone what you are thinking won't help you get what you want. its like those guys selling umbrellas on the street in times square, they cost $5 but the moment its raining they cost $15....if omar tells the world who/what he's after it may raise the asking price.
we've gotta be patient and not criticize too much until all the moves are in. if you're not happy on april 1st then thats hte time to say "omar you screwed up this offseason"

[Guest Edgy DC]

I've long wearied of the logic of "the other team was willing to deal their guy, that must tell you something."

Sticking with that logic, no deals would get done. As Ralph Kiner likes to hammer home, teams have different assessments of talent, that's why trades happen.