Jacobs is Topps!

[Vic Sage]

Mighty Mike got voted Topps Player of the year in the Eastern league.
He didn't do too badly at Shea, either.

If he can catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher, put him back behind the plate and stop chasing after Molina and/or Hernandez!

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051101&content_id=32434&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

[Elster88]

I don't see the rush to stick him behind the plate. Let him play first, play more games per year, and have a longer career.

[Vic Sage]

Then you're suffering from an occular disorder.

I don't give a ratzass how long Jacobs' career is. I'm not his mother or his manager. After 5 years, he'll be a free-agent and play wherever he wants anyway. At any rate, I'd rather have 5 years of a great hitting catcher, than 10 years of a decent hitting 1bman.

what i care about is getting offensive production BEHIND THE PLATE right now, where its more difficult to find and more expensive to keep, and acquire more readily available hitters at 1b elsewhere.

[Elster88]

Vic Sage wrote: I don't give a ratzass how long Jacobs' career is. I'm not his mother or his manager. After 5 years, he'll be a free-agent and play wherever he wants anyway. At any rate, I'd rather have 5 years of a great hitting catcher, than 10 years of a decent hitting 1bman.

How bout 10 years of a great hitting first baseman?

[Guest sharpie]

If he's Albert Pujols great then 10 years of him is better.

I think Jacobs would be a great hitting catcher and a good hitting 1b.

I'm with Vic Sage on this one. Strap on the tools, Mike.

[smg58]

sharpie wrote: I think Jacobs would be a great hitting catcher and a good hitting 1b. I'm with Vic Sage on this one. Strap on the tools, Mike.

Right. I think that Jacobs, or perhaps a Jacobs/Castro platoon, could match or exceed the offensive output of any catcher who's available. I might be more protective if I thought he were destined to be one of the game's elite hitters, but it will take more than a good month to convince me of that.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

You're all assuming he is good enough to catch on the Major League level.

From what I've seen of him when he was a B-Met, I'm not convinced that he is.

Leave Jake Monster at first base.

[Elster88]

smg58 wrote: ="sharpie"]I think Jacobs would be a great hitting catcher and a good hitting 1b. I'm with Vic Sage on this one. Strap on the tools, Mike. Right. I think that Jacobs, or perhaps a Jacobs/Castro platoon, could match or exceed the offensive output of any catcher who's available. I might be more protective if I thought he were destined to be one of the game's elite hitters, but it will take more than a good month to convince me of that.

I'd rather he get more time to do some convincing one way or the other than have him pushed immediately behind the plate.
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This post had the designation 131) Frank Taveras

[Guest Rotblatt]

I'd be pretty happy going into 2006 with a Jake/Castro platoon, especially with Konerko at 1B & Giles in RF.

I suspect we're going to end up with a big-name guy, though, which is unfortunate, since they're almost certainly not going to be worth what we're paying them.

[Elster88]

I like Giles, but I thought I remembered hearing he only wants to play on the west coast or with Altanta.

[Valadius]

Apparently Omar is going hard after Molina.

[Guest old original jb]

I like the idea of Jacobs' bat behind the plate, but if I say that catching is an important enough defensive position that someone ought to be good at it to do it, I feel one of those long defense is important vs. offense trumps all threads coming on.

I'll make up some imaginary position to prove my point, the Bard will assail my logic, my work ethic, and my bonafides, and somehow before it is all done, Kase and Doc/Sal/Martyr etc. will stop talking to each other (if they still are.)

No way. I'll just sit here and keep my mouth shut.

Yep. (Don't know how to get one of those copyright thingies in here.)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I dont't htink anybody is necessarily assuming anything. Sage prefaced his position with "If he can catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher...." Clearly, he has a low standard of what he wants defensively, and a high standard of what he wants offensively.

It's hard to pin down what "major league level" is, but unless pitches were hittinng the umpire in the midsection down in Bingo, the Mets lose a lot by not at least auditioning Jacobs as a catcher.

[Centerfield]

Which is why I was so surprised that in the midst of all those meaningless games we never once saw Mike Jacobs don the tools. I mean really, would it have killed us to see Ramon Castro start one less game?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Amoong many puzzling decisions Willie Randolph made down the stretch.

• Not getting Jacobs some time behind the plate --- even in that last blowout when he pulled Piazza, but sent in DiFelice


• Pulling Piazza when he had one more at-bat scheduled
• Keeping Cairo as the number-one secondbaseman, even though (1) Anderson Hernandez needed to get off the skids and (2) they have a big decision to make this off-season about Matsui, and (3) Cairo was (don't believe Met fans) outplayed by Matsui in 2005


• Splitting closing opportunities between Heilman and Hernandez to underscore that Heilman is not auditionig to open next season as the Mets closer


• Not getting a better look at Victor Zambrano out of the pen.
• Not getting Victor Diaz a few innings at first, after he was sent down for a few weeks presumably to familiarize himself withthe position.

None of these choices are particularly awful, and all are defensible in a sense, but all at once, they left me scratching my head.

[Zvon]

We need a catcher who can throw out baserunners.
Id rather have that then a guy who could post big hit numbers.
We can afford to field an average hitting hard throwing/good fielding catcher.
Cutting down runners should be our major concern from that position for 2006.

Jacobs should play first.

[Guest KC]

>>>I'll make up some imaginary position to prove my point, the Bard will assail my logic, my work ethic, and my bonafides, and somehow before it is all done, Kase and Doc/Sal/Martyr etc. will stop talking to each other (if they still are.)

No way. I'll just sit here and keep my mouth shut.<<<

Well jeez, jb. I'm still on speaking terms with everyone but that bob metsiac.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]We need a catcher who can throw out baserunners. Id rather have that then a guy who could post big hit numbers. We can afford to field an average hitting hard throwing/good fielding catcher. Cutting down runners should be our major concern from that position for 2006.

Why? Why? Based on what? And why?

And do we know what the particular weaknesses in Jacobs' game are?

[smg58]

It seems that anything the Mets do with Jacobs entails a risk, because at this point he is an unknown commodity with a potentially large upside. The options are:

1. Catch him, and risk his defense getting in the way.
2. Play him at first, and risk finding out that he is really no better a hitter than Agabayani and Spenser were despite their great starts, and the offense does not improve significantly from last year.
3. Block him by bringing in expensive guys at both positions, and risk wasting a good player.
4. Trade him, and risk seeing him turn into a basher for another team.

I'm dead-set against option 3; whatever else, he's earned the right to at least compete for a starting spot. If other GM's treat him like a mid-level or worse prospect, I see no point to option 4. The risk for option 2 is easier to quantify than the risk for option 1, because I really have no idea how bad his defense is. I think first base is the position that leaves the most room for improvement on the team, and if we go with Jacobs there and he's ordinary, our run production won't be much different than this year. As far as option 1 goes, is he below average or way below average? That difference could matter a lot, and I have nothing to go by in that regard.

[Frayed Knot]

]And do we know what the particular weaknesses in Jacobs' game are?

I read a piece which described him as having a '40' (on the 20 - 80 scale) arm. That's below average though not ridiculously so. I'm not sure about the less quantifiable parts of his defensive game; blocking, calling, etc.
Problem is that all that was before his shoulder surgery and before he spent nearly 2 years w/o strapping on the gear.

I just don't get the opinion that the team sees him as a future catcher - at least not in anything more than an occasional basis.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think they see him that way either. It doesn't stop me from advocating.

You frequently write variations on the "two years" thing. Just how much did he catch this season?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Vic Sage - "If he can catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher, put him back behind the plate..."

That would put him ahead of Mackey Sasser.

I agree that Jacobs has far greater value as a catcher (assuming he can do an adequate job defensively) than as a first baseman. Slugging first baseman are fairly prevalent, slugging catchers are a much rarer commodity. I would imagine the Mets already have a far better feeling about his defensive abilities than do we here at the CPF. Maybe that's why we haven't seem him behind the plate. Still, I would like to see the Mets use this coming spring to evaluate him behind the plate. Give Jacobs a chance to show whether he can be an adequate defensive catcher.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It could be their feeling about his abilities (he's unredeemable, and trying to salvage his skills would only set his bat back), or it could be their philosiphy (better a .220 hitter who could heilp the staff than a .400 hitter who couldn't).

I suspect the latter. The manager he played for this season is out of their organization, for what it's worth.

[Diamond Dad]

It's an ironic discussion, this. Jacobs was a first baseman in the minors who didn't hit well enough to be considered a true prospect as a first baseman. So, they told him to learn how to catch, because his bat would be more viable as a catcher than as a first baseman.

Now, we're debating whether to put him back at first base, because of his below-average catching skills.

As a catcher, he's going to make mistakes. I don't know how well he can call a game at the major league level -- few rookie catchers can. That's a big part of the game. He's also not great at blocking balls in the dirt (from what I've seen of him), which is also big at this level, where passed balls (or wild pitches that could have been handled) are just as bad as stolen bases.

Few catchers out there throw out more than 25% of would-be base stealers. While it would be nice to have Ivan Rodriguez, I doubt that Molina will save many runs by throwing out runners on steal attempts, or pick off that many runners. I'm all for solid defense, however, and a catcher who can call a good game.

My guess is that the organization has already made up its mind that Jacobs is not a good enough catcher to play the position regularly at the big league level, leaving only the question of whether he's a good enough hitter to play 1st. I like his defense at 1st, by the way.

[Elster88]

]It's an ironic discussion, this. Jacobs was a first baseman in the minors who didn't hit well enough to be considered a true prospect as a first baseman. So, they told him to learn how to catch, because his bat would be more viable as a catcher than as a first baseman.

Not that unusual. This seems to be what everyone here is saying.

Sounds like Mike Piazza the sequel when you factor in the next part of your post: trying to move him to first because of lackluster catching skills.

[Vic Sage]

]Vic Sage - "If he can catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher, put him back behind the plate..." Rockin Doc - "That would put him ahead of Mackey Sasser".

That's my point. If Sasser could throw the ball back to the pitcher, he'd have been considered a pretty good catcher, considering he was a line-drive bashing LHed hitter. He didn't hit especially well for a 1bman, but for a catcher, he'd have been top 10%. But he couldn't throw the ball back to the catcher, so he went bye-bye.

If Jacobs CAN throw the ball back to the pitcher, then he'd have to do all the other stuff OFF THE CHARTS BAD in order to justify pushing his bat to 1b, where he'll never be anything more than average offensively, based on his overall history to date (not just 1 month in the majors).

Its just a matter of how BAD does he have to be to not get a shot behind the plate? Because we simply CAN'T believe he's the answer to our offensive woes at 1B. He'd be a stopgap and a backup.

There will always be alot better hitters available at 1b than at catcher, so if there is even the remotest shot that Jacobs could play 120 games behind the plate, you simply HAVE TO find out. you have to.

[Guest cleonjones11]

Do you really think Jacobs will be in the opening day line-up...He was a prospect turned suspect. Curveball/Slider away steerike 3....

[DocTee]

I'm not sure I buy this "he's a good enough hitter to play position X but not position Y" theory.

i remember a few years ago, the Bucs were considering moving Jason Kendall to LF-- there was alot of backlash about how this wasn't a good idea-- about how it was OK to have a singles hitting $10 million catcher, but not a singles-hitting $10 million LF and I just didn't get it...

I also recall Bobby V stating he wouldn't move Piazza to 1b since he'd then have to find a Catcher who could replicate Mike's offensive production (but what you really needed was one who could replace the power of the now-benched 1b-men, right?)

Am I missing something here? (I know I ain't adding anything...)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Say, your typical catcher provides a .700 OPS, and your typical firstbaseman provides an .850 OPS. By playing a guy at first instead of catcher, you're costing your team .150 in OPS, by filling the other position with a guy who will tend to hit like a catcher instead of a guy who will tend to hit like a firstbaseman.

[Frayed Knot]

Frank Thomas - who was mentioned in some thread somewhere as being a 1st base possibility - is officially a FA as the ChiSox declined his option by paying his buyout.

Problem is that he hasn't played more than a handful of games at 1B since 1997 and he wasn't particularly good at it even then. He also turns 38 just after the season starts.
So it would have to be a pretty cheap alternative before I'd consider him an option and it's unlikely that someone in the DH league won't offer him a better deal.