2nd base - 2006

[Frayed Knot]

]Does that mean we have to edit copied posts?

Well, you don't HAVE to do anything ... the only rule around here as far as I'm concerned is liberal use of common sense.
It's just that when something is simply cut-n-pasted with little or no context and scant attribution it takes away from the discussion at least as much as it adds to it, particularly when the passage is only semi-legible to begin with.

[Elster88]

At least one mod is vehemently against the reposting of messages from other boards. Or discussing people on said boards. Or even acknowledging that they exist.

[nymr83]

i don't know about other boards, but when copying for a journalistic source and citing the author/site you should definetaly NOT correct their spelling/grammar in my opinion, their article (or the part you are copying) should be presented as originally written.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Elster88 wrote: At least one mod is vehemently against the reposting of messages from other boards. Or discussing people on said boards. Or even acknowledging that they exist.

We can acknowledge their existence, but I don't see the need to repost discussions from other boards here.

If there's an interesting point, bring it up. But citing other boards' discussions as authority isn't going to influence anyone around here. If you want to cite the idea and then do independent research to construct a theory about it, then go to town. But if I want to know what they're saying on a different board, then I'll just hang out there.

[MFS62]

Did you read it?

That wasn't an opinion.
This was not a "discussion".
It just happened to be found on a discussion board. It was re-posted for its statistical content and a fact (winning the Dominican Gold Glove).
"Authority"?
Shouldn't statistics be judged on their own merit?

From what was written, you can gather two things:
The kid is hitting well in the playoffs.
He is playing second base, and is playing it well enough to win their Gold Glove.



Later

[Guest *62]

Centerfield wrote: 62, who are you talking about in your post?

Kaz hit a HR in his first AB as a Met, went 4-for-4 if I remember correctly. It's been pretty much all downhill for him from there, primarliy for his defensive shortcomings, IMO.

[metirish]

Well he couldn't stay healthy either, after being an iron-man in Japan he never was here...I never thought he had a great arm though...

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I think Centerfield was talking to the other 62.

This could get confusing. Much like the old MOFO days when Bret was known as Doc G and I was, well, me. Every time someone said "Doc" you had to figure out who they were talking to. Then there was the Hot Corner and holy chicken mix up every time a poster referred to HC.

[Guest cooby]

I thought the whole Jay Satan passage to be more confusing than the Anderson Hernandez stuff

[Centerfield]

Yes. I was talking to the other 62. Sorry about that.

[metirish]

Update on 2nd base.

] Matsui must produce or sit BY DAVID LENNON STAFF CORRESPONDENT February 18, 2006 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- A mountain of luggage arrived Friday at the Tradition Field clubhouse for Kaz Matsui, with numerous duffel bags and cardboard boxes spilling over the edges of a wheeled cart. But with the second base job very much up for grabs in the next six weeks, Matsui had better not take too long settling in. The Japanese infielder already has been evicted from his end locker of a year ago, replaced by veteran Bret Boone, and manager Willie Randolph made it clear Friday that he's not playing any favorites -- even if the incumbent is making $8 million this year. "I view it as a real competition," Randolph said. "We're in a business where, you know what, there's no babies here. You go out, win the job and take it. I've been told by management, for the most part, that we're going to play the best people. Obviously, you've got to consider stuff like contracts -- that's a reality of the game. But still, when it gets down to it, we're going to try and pick the guy that deserves to win the job." Matsui could take the heat off the front office by dazzling Randolph during spring training, but this time of the year has not been kind to him. In 2004, when he was still a shortstop, Matsui sliced open a finger while fielding a ground ball, and the injury hurt his early adjustment to the majors. A year ago, Matsui was hindered by back problems, and that opened the door for veteran Miguel Cairo. Perhaps the biggest challenge for Matsui is simply staying on the field. "It's a huge spring training for him," Randolph said. "The competition's going to be there. We have the young kid Hernandez, and Keppinger. That's going to be an interesting spot for us, but I feel real good about Kaz. I've said all winter long that he's going to have a good year for us, so we'll see." Numbers game? The Mets traded two creditable starters in Kris Benson and Jae Seo during the offseason, so it's not surprising that Randolph refused to guarantee a spot to the unreliable Victor Zambrano while discussing the rotation. When asked if Zambrano is a lock at No. 4, the manager shook his head. "No, not necessarily," Randolph said. "You might look at our rotation and say he's pretty much in there, but I'm never going to say that because you don't know. We have three or four guys in the back of the depth chart that might step up and knock my socks off. He has to compete." At first, Randolph mentioned only Pedro Martinez and Tom Glavine as the names set in stone, then was reminded of Steve Trachsel. But with a long list of backup candidates in camp and an older rotation, the Mets are bound to need plenty of insurance. Glavine, for instance, turns 40 next month. "It's just a number," Glavine said. "In many respects, I feel as good as I have in a long time. I had as good a winter workout-wise and throwing-wise as I've had in a long time, so I'm excited about it."

[nymr83]

] I've been told by management, for the most part, that we're going to play the best people. Obviously, you've got to consider stuff like contracts -- that's a reality of the game. But still, when it gets down to it, we're going to try and pick the guy that deserves to win the job."

i find the honesty about contracts refreshing.

going into this year i'd divide the 2B playing time: 75% Matsui, 25% whoever makes the team as the backup... if the backup plays better his time increases and same for matsui, if either one is sucking up the joint their time goes to the next guy in line at AAA.
I think Matsui deserves the chance to start the year at 2B but he hasn't earned himself much rope, if he's doing poorly and someone else is doing well i'd make the switch quickly.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Randolph Pulls Neck Muscle Equivocating

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Bumping and continuing ...

Here's the Times article I was trying to remember. Basically, I think we Matsui fans should be rooting for a spring that's not only as good as Boone's, but b-e-t-t-e-r.

]February 24, 2006 When It Comes to Second, Mets Think Defense First By BEN SHPIGEL PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., Feb. 23 � One by one, the players whose jobs were in absolutely no danger jogged to their infield positions on Field No. 4 Thursday morning. Then followed the first two contestants in the opening stages of a reality show fit for the Mets' new TV network: "Who wants to play second base?" Bret Boone and Kazuo Matsui fielded ground balls with the starters on the first day of full-squad workouts. The prospects Jeff Keppinger and Anderson Hernandez loosened up on a back field. Boone and Matsui were afforded the opportunity to work out with the regulars because of their status as veteran second basemen, Manager Willie Randolph said. But, in a way, the groupings offered an early insight into the Mets' assessment of the only wide-open race in camp. "I can say to you: 'The job is his.' But what does that mean?" Randolph said of Matsui. "If someone comes in and plays much better, then I'm going to pick the best guy." Unlike in right field, where Xavier Nady holds an advantage over Victor Diaz because the Mets traded Mike Cameron to acquire him, there is no clear-cut favorite at second base. And there is also the possibility that General Manager Omar Minaya could dump Matsui, picking up most of his $8 million contract, or revisit trade talks for the Devil Rays' Julio Lugo, whom he has long coveted. For the moment, the race comes down to Matsui, an often-injured converted shortstop; Boone, a three-time All-Star who lost his passion for the game last season; Keppinger, a talented hitter with gap power who, after a severe knee injury last season, wants to prove that he can still play; and Hernandez, a 23-year-old who is probably still a year away. It is not an ideal scenario, but the early feeling is that Boone will win the job if he can prove that he can still play. Boone was one of the American League's more feared hitters when he played for Seattle from 2001 to 2004 and has captured four Gold Glove awards, but he was released by Seattle and Minnesota last summer because of ineffectiveness. Boone said that he had not lost any range and that regaining his swing was proving the biggest challenge. Even if Boone does not rediscover his previous form as a hitter, his defense may be enough to boost him into the lead. Barring a trade, the second baseman figures to bat eighth in the lineup, placing a priority on defense. And with Carlos Delgado, a mediocre defensive player, at first base, the Mets are in position to sacrifice offense for defense at second base. "I think baseball people know about my defense," Boone said. "If that's what's going to help my chances get back into the major leagues, then that's fine with me." Boone's presence may wind up motivating Matsui, who has frustrated Mets officials with his penchant for sustaining injuries. Matsui arrived in camp in excellent shape and repentant for his two disappointing seasons with the Mets. He hired a private coach to help him improve his agility and strength during the off-season, and then revealed the results during live batting practice Thursday, slamming a homer to center field off Billy Wagner, the Mets' new closer. "He probably just got lucky and walked in on it," Randolph said. It was tough to tell whether he was kidding. Keppinger, who was leading the International League in hitting before fracturing his knee in a contentious spiking incident last June, performed adequately during a late-season call-up in 2004, but he still ranks below Hernandez on the organization's depth chart. Hernandez, an outstanding defensive player, is the heir apparent to the job, but there is no reason to rush him. After batting 1 for 18 with the Mets in a brief stint last September, Hernandez flourished in the Dominican winter league, earning rookie of the year honors and batting .455 in leading Licey to the league championship. "I played against major leaguers all winter," Hernandez said. "I know I can play against them now." The ultimate arbiter, of course, is Randolph, a man who expertly played second base for 18 seasons. He will also decide who gets to play alongside Delgado, Jos� Reyes and David Wright on Field No. 4 and at Shea Stadium.

[nymr83]

]Boone, a three-time All-Star who lost his passion for the game last season

Or lost his needles, whichever...

[Elster88]

]Matsui must produce or sit

It's odd that this wasn't the requirement for Kaz or Cairo last year.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

This guy for 2B!

[Zvon]

Matsui took Wagner deep in the 1st live BP session.

And Randolf says:
"He probably got lucky and he walked into it, we'll see" ????
to the press.

Cripes. The kid need confidence.
Whatchu thinkin Willis?

For a guy who wants his players to act mature and like a "team" thats the most rediculous thing he could have said to the press. If he wants to make a joke like that with a coach or something, fine.
But to say that to the press when a guy on the "team" has been struggling to fit into the majors for 2 seasons now?
And he's showing possible signs that he could?

Willie, you make me wonder.

[Guest KC]

I love when jock humor gets written about in a paper and talk radio and
the internet takes one liners off the cuff and chews on 'em and spits 'em
and draws dumb conclusions about 'em and questions the quotee's balls
about 'em when the jock humor quote means absolutely nothing in the
grand scheme of things.

And zvon, dressed like that you shouldn't be wondering about anyone.

[Zvon]

KC wrote: I love when jock humor gets written about in a paper and talk radio and the internet takes one liners off the cuff and chews on 'em and spits 'em and draws dumb conclusions about 'em and questions the quotee's balls about 'em when the jock humor quote means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. And zvon, dressed like that you shouldn't be wondering about anyone.

Thats jock humor?
Hope it translates that way to Kaz.

....and never judge a man by his cowl.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

The Boone:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002831344_ston27.html

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The Boone: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002831344_ston27.html

Does anyone view Boone as anything other than a steroids test-case? If he does well, wins the job with a strong spring, isn't the word going to be "He wasn't on 'roids, after all" and if his parachute doesn't open, isn't it going to be "Yup, roids"?

[MFS62]

Keppinger sent back to New York for medical tests.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060226&content_id=1323649&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

At least it isn't the knee that was injured last year.

Later

[Elster88]

That's too bad. He's our second baseman of the future.

[Guest Rotblatt]

According to the Boston Herald (via Rotoworld):

]Tony Graffanino said that he has been told by the Red Sox that every effort will be made to trade him to a team that will allow him to start at second base. It's more likely that Graffanino will end up as a utilityman on another team, though if an injury opens up a spot somewhere, he'd be a fine stopgap. At $2.05 million, he's pretty reasonably priced. Source: Boston Herald

I wonder what it would take to land Graffanino. He'd almost certainly be an upgrade offensively and he's pretty cheap. Probably not an option unless we move Matsui, but still . . .

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Anyone hear that Boone packed it in today? http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/mlb/news/AAN4007312.htm


Yup, roids.

[MFS62]

Bret, there's a thread on it,something like "Boonerang"
Check down the page.

Later

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Oh.

[Guest cleonjones11]

Todays picture of him looks like that Giambi "luckiest man in the world" near death photo. Steroids kill

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

BOONE QUITS��I just can�t cut it without my �roids.�

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Tears welled in Bret Boone's eyes, his lower lip quivering ever so slightly. Something inside had told him to go home. Boone's 14-year Major League career came to an end Wednesday in the dugout at Tradition Field. The three-time All-Star pointed to his chest pocket, said his steroids supply was missing and announced his retirement.

"Something I've based my skills on has become a major, major job for me to inject without getting busted," Boone said. "I don't think it would be fair for me -- or fair to the Mets -- to continue something I've loved my whole life and had so much dependence on, and all of a sudden that supply isn't there anymore."

Boone, 37, was in camp with the Mets on a Minor League contract, accepting a non-roster invitation to Spring Training. After batting .221 in 88 games for the Seattle Mariners and Minnesota Twins last season, Boone said he wanted to leave the game on his terms�high.

"At the end of the day, physically I think I could still do it," Boone said. "It wasn't as easy as three or four years ago to get out there every day, but to me, I just lost it. I lost the supply of non-detectable performance-enhancers."

Mets GM Omar Minaya said that he supported the decision. Boone was absent from camp on Tuesday, when the Mets went through their first intra-squad game, and decided to retire now rather than go through the team's exhibition schedule with the body of an aged, washed-up freak.

"He did not disappoint us," Minaya said. "It takes a man to make a decision. One of the reasons we brought Bret on board this spring was because of the way he plays the game -- the way he gave steroids in the clubhouse, the substance abuse he brought to the game. That substance abuse was something that was contagious. I fully support his decision."